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Environmental Hydrogen Gas health benefits?

hydrogen cardiac ldl

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#1 robosapiens

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:46 PM


Environmental Hydrogen Gas health benefits

Several studies have indicated that inhaled hydrogen gas can have health benefits


http://www.life-enha...rable-to-that-o

http://www.life-enha...-in-human-trial

Can DC power hydrogen water splitters be an effective way of adding low level hydrogen to a living space?
Such as http://www.instructa...gen-and-Oxygen/

#2 niner

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

Wow. Didn't see this one coming. Any guesses as to what's going on here?

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#3 robosapiens

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:30 PM

Wow. Didn't see this one coming. Any guesses as to what's going on here?


This may get us up to speed

http://www.life-enha...-therapy-update

and http://www.life-enha...-therapy-update

#4 niner

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 12:58 AM

From a quick read of the links above: Hydrogen is a nonpolar antioxidant that due to its extremely small size, travels rapidly throughout the body, including the nucleus, mitochondria, and brain. It selectively scavenges the dangerous hydroxyl and peroxynitrite radicals. Hydrogen can be dosed in water at the micromolar level, or by breathing at a 2% concentration. It can also be made by colonic bacteria. There's been quite a lot of work done on this (considering its low profile), most of it recent.

#5 robosapiens

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:46 PM

So, it seems that one could make a small DC powered hydrogen generator to have in the home, with a fan on it to keep it from getting too concentrated and blow up the house.

Has anyone tried this that you know of?

#6 Darryl

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:05 PM

Given that feeding our colonic bacteria with α-galactosides results in hydrogen gas that can be detected in exhaled breath, perhaps the answer, as in so many cases, is beans. Plus one can share beneficial amounts of hydrogen with family or coworkers in confined spaces. Shall we celebrate the health promoting benefits of flatuence?


Trugo, L. C., et al. "Oligosaccharide composition and trypsin inhibitor activity of P. vulgaris and the effect of germination on the α-galactoside composition and fermentation in the human colon." Food chemistry 36.1 (1990): 53-61.

Edited by Darryl, 13 September 2013 - 07:08 PM.

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#7 niner

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

So, it seems that one could make a small DC powered hydrogen generator to have in the home, with a fan on it to keep it from getting too concentrated and blow up the house.

Has anyone tried this that you know of?


Not that I know of. If you really need 1% in air, then that's going to be a pretty big hydrogen generator. That also starts getting pretty close to the lower flammability limit of 4% for H2. I like the colonic bacteria idea from a safety and continuous dosing standpoint. (But maybe you really need a lot less than 1%?) Another semi-crazy option would be to have a small hydrogen cylinder that you took a hit off of every 15 minutes or so. (The colonic bacteria scheme looks better all the time...) Maybe a device that created H2-saturated water on the spot, using a pressurized H2 bottle, kind of like a seltzer machine?

There are parallels between H2 and C60 that are interesting. They are both very unusual antioxidants, both non-polar, and both get into places in the body that ordinary polar antioxidants do not. They are complementary in that H2 can detoxify a hydroxyl radical, but it isn't very specific to superoxide. C60 can dismutate superoxide, but creates peroxide in the process. While peroxide is relatively benign compared to superoxide, in the presence of certain free transition metals (iron, copper, probably others) it could lead to hydroxyl radical formation. The half life of c60-oo is many days, while the half life of H2 is a small number of minutes.

#8 Darryl

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:01 PM

Turns out hydrogen rich water is really quite simple:

Nakao, Atsunori, et al. "Effectiveness of hydrogen rich water on antioxidant status of subjects with potential metabolic syndrome—an open label pilot study." Journal of clinical biochemistry and nutrition 46.2 (2010): 140.

Hydrogen rich water was produced, by placing a metallic magnesium stick into drinking water (hydrogen concentration; 0.55–0.65 mM), by the following chemical reaction; Mg + 2H2O → Mg (OH)2 + H2. The consumption of hydrogen rich water for 8 weeks resulted in a 39% increase (p<0.05) in antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase (SOD) and a 43% decrease (p<0.05) in thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS) in urine.


The researchers did not report on how much magnesium was ingested or the magnesium status of their participants, but given half of Americans have less than adequate intakes, there's likely no harm and potentially a lot of good. The magnesium content of nuts is suspected responsible for lowered risk of sudden cardiac death (and another study) and a good part of their longevity benefit.

While a stick is fine, I suspect ribbon would be cheaper, lighter, have a greater surface area for its weight, and would coil nicely into even narrow necked bottles.

Edited by Darryl, 13 September 2013 - 10:48 PM.

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#9 niner

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:22 AM

While a stick is fine, I suspect ribbon would be cheaper, lighter, have a greater surface area for its weight, and would coil nicely into even narrow necked bottles.


From the picture in the paper you linked, it looks like rather than a magnesium 'stick', it's a long thin porous bag of magnesium chips, something like this. There is a whole world of hydrogen water out there, like the twelve and a half thousand offers on alibaba. Amazon has products, including reasonably priced magnesium chips that look about right. No doubt you could find similar items on Ebay and various other places. Sorting the wheat from the chaff could be difficult...

In theory, it would be a simple matter of putting clean magnesium (with sufficient surface area) into water and letting the magic happen. You'd want to know that your magnesium wasn't contaminated with undesirable metals, of which there are many...

#10 Hip

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:56 AM

A cheap DIY method of making hydrogen rich water is detailed in this post



#11 adamh

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:07 PM

I have been going the h2 gas route rather than try to create h2 water. The reason I avoid the water tec is for one thing we do not know what contaminants are in the mg. We do know its not usp nor approved for internal use. Even if the contaminants are something relatively benign like manganese, its not what we want. Even a trace amount of lead, mercury, cadmium can build up over time while a single dose might be relatively harmless.

 

The other reason I avoid it is because I want to control my mg intake and avoid inorganic forms. Yes, much of the mg is converted into maleate, but not all. And don't forget those impurities floating around. I take mg threonate and other forms in a usp formula.

 

I bought a tank of hydrogen and have been using it for almost a year as I've posted about before. Its very cheap except for the initial cost of the tank and regulator. A refill costs $20 and it looks like it will last a couple years. I do not knock the concept of taking h2 via water, just the production method. It seems h in the upper gut has a slightly different effect than the h we get via bacteria in the large intestine.  However, h2 inhaled gets into the bloodstream immediately and goes right to the brain, our premier organ. I have recently been experimenting with putting h2 into a glass jar with purified water and letting it sit in the fridge to see what benefits I may get from h water in addition to breathing it.



#12 Hip

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:16 PM

I have been going the h2 gas route rather than try to create h2 water. The reason I avoid the water tec is for one thing we do not know what contaminants are in the mg.

 

You want to avoid contaminants in the magnesium, so you buy yourself a large tank of industrial welding hydrogen that may contain unknown contaminant gases, and instead breath that!? Interesting logic.

 

The "test tube in a bottle" method of making hydrogen rich water does not involve drinking the magnesium, because the magnesium is kept within the test tube, and does not enter the drinking water. 


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#13 adamh

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:57 PM

 

I have been going the h2 gas route rather than try to create h2 water. The reason I avoid the water tec is for one thing we do not know what contaminants are in the mg.

 

You want to avoid contaminants in the magnesium, so you buy yourself a large tank of industrial welding hydrogen that may contain unknown contaminant gases, and instead breath that!? Interesting logic.

 

 

"may" contain contaminants? What contaminants do you suppose will be there? Something diabolical like lead? No, that does not vaporize very well or any of the metals. What then? A trace of moisture, nitrogen, oxygen? The fact it is a gas and is in most cases made by electrolysis means there will be no contaminants. Industry standards say it must be at least 99.95% pure and usual contaminants are nitrogen or oxygen, hardly a concern https://www1.eere.en...kshop_smith.pdf So here we have a document outlining industry standards while the exact composition of the fire sticks is largely unknown 

 

Otoh, those fire sticks are made of solid metals, they are cheap which means purity is not a big factor as long as they burn. Which would you like to consume?

 

>The "test tube in a bottle" method of making hydrogen rich water does not involve drinking the magnesium, because the magnesium is kept within the test tube, and does not enter the drinking water. 

 

That is certainly an improvement since the mg alloy is filtered from entering the water. However, even if it was as pure as breathing the gas itself, you have the considerable trouble of setting it up and doing the reaction yourself. How do you know your system does not produce any harmful gases? You speculate that the hydrogen in a tank has some unspecified harmful impurities but have given no evidence to go along with that.

 

With my system I take the foil balloon filled with h2, open the valve a bit and take a toke of gas. I hold it in and notice effects right away. Not saying drinking the water is bad or that your method is bad, just saying criticism of my system is no more than speculation. I like my way for the convenience, its quick, I don't have to remember to set up the chemicals and equipment, I just open the valve and away I go. I can also produce h2 water with it very easily.

 

Some will prefer low cost tecs and not worry about contams and not be concerned about the amount of work involved. Your way does sound better than the low tec methods being promoted by others.



#14 Hip

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:23 PM

The fact it is a gas and is in most cases made by electrolysis means there will be no contaminants. Industry standards say it must be at least 99.95% pure and usual contaminants are nitrogen or oxygen, hardly a concern https://www1.eere.en...kshop_smith.pdf

 

 

Looking at the document you linked to, it says carbon monoxide concentrations can be as high as 10 ppm in gas cylinders. This webpage says: "maximum of 9 ppm of CO for 8-hour exposure (not to be exceeded more than once per year)." So carbon monoxide might be a concern if you are using your approach of breathing hydrogen gas from welding supplies cylinders. 

 

 

I think possibly the easiest approach for anyone who wants to try hydrogen rich water is just to buy one of those cheap USB-powered electrolysis-type hydrogen rich water makers that you find on the UK eBay for around £40. They are also called hydrogen rich water ionizers. Although these only produce low concentrations of H2 in the water, we know from the studies I detailed in this post that from the ghrelin secretion perspective, you get the same benefits whether you use low concentration hydrogen rich water, or high concentration hydrogen rich water. So low concentration hydrogen rich water work fine. 

 

Thus these USB-powered hydrogen rich water ionizers may be perfectly adequate for the job. 

 

 

Another easy and cheap option is the Dr Hayashi hydrogen rich water stick (made in Japan), which on the UK eBay you can buy for less than £30. This makes slightly stronger hydrogen rich water than the hydrogen rich water ionizers, but eventually the stick will run out, and you'd have to buy a new one. But each stick lasts for 6 months. 


Edited by Hip, 16 February 2017 - 11:26 PM.


#15 adamh

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 12:09 AM

I've looked at the electrical production of h2 and in fact that is how I started. I used electrodes and a dc current. Other methods I've used were aluminum reacting with lye. I collected the gas in each case and did not drink the water. But it was too much work and too time consuming.

 

You said  "maximum of 9 ppm of CO for 8-hour exposure" an 8 hour exposure is a lot. I take a little toke from the balloon and have perhaps a 1 minute exposure, lol and your source is very conservative. Here is what I found about osha standards "In the United States, the OSHA limits long-term workplace exposure levels above 50 ppm" https://en.wikipedia...Carbon_monoxide plus the fact the standards for hydrogen do not say they must have that much, they say it must be below that level. But even at that level its harmless 

 

Plus the fact that air naturally contains from 2 to 14 ppm of CO so the maximum amount allowed in industrial hydrogen would be no more than you might encounter breathing air outdoors. Indoor air often has higher levels. Your source for 9 ppm being dangerous sounds a little paranoid. I hope we have put that matter to rest. https://www.epa.gov/...monoxide-trends

 

The usb and other variety of h2 water producers do sound better than the fire stick method, certainly better than drinking water with that junk in it. However the amount of h2 produced will be low. When I hooked up a 12v dc supply to stainless electrodes I got a steady stream of hydrogen coming up which I gathered but the commercial machines would be less work for sure. Perhaps have it constantly working and store supplies of it in sealed glass to keep the h2 from escaping?

 

I may try that if my h water experiment convinces me its a good method. But for quick and easy h2 absorption you will have to look high and low to beat breathing some gas. For a lousy 40 bucks or so those devices sound not bad, just unsure of how well it works. It might let the h2 escape as fast as its produced. Its worth looking into. Perhaps a setup with higher dc voltage would be more effective? The other gas being o2 is not a worry, platinum or pure gold electrodes would be a good thing. I used stainless but it will leach a little metal into the water which is why I didn't drink it.

 



#16 Hip

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 12:26 AM

That's true, your gulps of H2 gas from your cylinder are just a few times a day, so 10 ppm of carbon monoxide in that would not be an issue.

 

 

 



#17 aconita

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 12:06 AM

It is very difficult if possible at all to get pure gasses, even medical grade oxygen needs to be filtered by water before administration (ever seen somebody breathing oxygen from a proper apparatus? Ever noticed the bubbling sound coming from it?).

 

If we like to believe breathing a few puffs of contaminants containing hydrogen likely is not going to cause much harm since the air we breath everyday is by far more polluted that's fine with me...but than the possible impurities released in the water from a magnesium stick (which by the way is NOT a fire stick) should be of no concern either since drinking water and food likely are more polluted too.

 

Therefore to keep arguing about breathing hydrogen gas as a better choice over drinking hydrogen water because contamination issues makes no sense at all, it might be more pleasurable to some, it would be easier, it would be cooler, whatever you like...but certainly not safer or cleaner. 


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#18 adamh

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:17 PM

Don't be a hater, we have thoroughly debunked the contamination theory. If you have actual facts, or at least links, please present them. 


Edited by adamh, 18 February 2017 - 07:18 PM.






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