18 replies to this topic

[eon]

Not sure how this was considered a nootropic. I thought it belonged in the "pre-workout" class of supplement.

It is considered "natural", but not sure why. Is it because it is derived from an amino acid, phenylalanine? Considered a metabolic precursor and purported cognitive improvement. Anyone here tried this? It is said to go well with another purported nootropic, hordenine.

Does it "wake" you up when depressed?

[lammas2]

My experience: PEA is a recreational drug, although it's not a very pleasurable one. It is somewhat psychedelic, the duration is ridiculously short and it causes horrible vasoconstriction. The user feels a very intense rush, some might describe it pleasant and euphoric, but for me it is rather uncomfortable and anxiogenic.

No way it is a pre-workout supplement, I have tested using PEA with aerobic exercise and it absolutely sucks. It's the ultimate anti-ergogenic drug. The intense rush just glues you to the couch.

It might be considered natural, because phenylethylamine is a naturally occurring human neurotransmitter, not an exogenous drug like amphetamine. It also naturally occurs in some plants, however in very low concentrations. I have even seen phenibut described as a 'natural substance'...

It is usually combined with hordenine, because PEA isn't active on it's own. PEA is rapidly metabolised by MAO-A and MAO-B (also others). This can be bypassed by using a very high dosage (stupid), or by inhibiting MAO enzymes. Hordenine is a MAO-B substrate and therefore it helps the PEA to reach the brain. Other MAO inhibitors like quercetin or rutin can also be used. Some users also choose selegiline as the MAOI, but I would be very careful going down this road, as selegiline is an irreversible MAOI and can be very dangerous when used with PEA.

If you choose to try it, find a suitable MAOI and start with very low dosages, 50-100mg. However, I'm pretty sure that you will find it nothing like you expected it to be.

Edited by lammas2, 09 January 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[Nootropic Milk Hotel]

It might be considered natural, because phenylethylamine is a naturally occurring human neurotransmitter, not an exogenous drug like amphetamine.

Interestingly, amphetamines are substituted phenethylamines, as are cathinones ("bath salts"), various psychedelics, and dopamine.
I just wanted to point that out because I think it's neat. I have no experience with phenethylamine itself.

[eon]

I haven't used my PEA as well. I have about 10g of it. The suggested serving is 500-750mg, but I will start low. Do not use over 1000mg from what I have read from people but I'm sure this varies person to person. Iammas2 mentioned "aerobic exercise" with the use of PEA but from what I know it is great for weightlifting, not cardio-heavy "aerobic" exercise. There is a warning with using PEA not to use it with prescription MAO. PEA is said to raise blood pressure. I think this is good to give that extra push in the gym.

Iammas2, were you using PEA with other substance that it gave you negative results? I see mostly positive results from people that have taken it.

There was a recently banned pre-workout supplement called CRAZE. It was banned because it contains an unlisted substance that is a close cousin of meth, N,a-diethyl-phenylethylamine (N,a-DEPEA). Doesn't it sound a lot like PEA (phenylethylamine) with different structure perhaps? People that took it was tested for the drug, despite of them not being drug addicts unknowingly. Althought most people that took CRAZE mentioned being "hooked" on it.

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=20572095

[eon]

Is PEA a cardiac stimulant like caffeine? I'm not into caffeine especially from coffee and sodas. I like teas though. I hope this won't cause chest pains the way caffeine does to me.

Edited by eon, 23 January 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[eon]

I still haven't used PEA yet but I just tried some synephrine. It does work even at just 10mg. It woke me up and had a great workout, but it did make my heart beat faster even after my workout and while I was sleeping. It kept waking me up since there was movement on my chest area (fast heart beat). It wasn't painful like angina (which gives me from using caffeine sources). It is said to be a fat burner maybe that's why? I think PEA would give a more intense effect considering synephrine could do this? How do I taper off the hyper feeling when using either PEA or synephrine? I think I read somewhere that Phenibut or Picamilon could calm me down.

Edited by eon, 28 January 2014 - 06:44 AM.

[eon]

Would using phenylalanine another good option or substitute for PEA? PEA is derived from phenylalanine. PEA is said to be not as bioavailable in low dose and has a half life of 5-10 minutes so no wonder I've heard of people describing being jacked up for about 10 minutes then it fizzles out. I read a story of a cocaine user who opted for phenylalanine instead of cocaine and gave this person that "drive" and to better results I'd assume since it's only an amino acid. A precursor to PEA and tyrosine so it had to be the "master" if that makes sense.

Edited by eon, 30 March 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[blood]

If you choose to try it, find a suitable MAOI and...

Wouldn't mixing PEA and an MAO inhibitor be potentially dangerous?

[HappyShoe]

Ok, legitimate rhetorical question here. You guys know when you're working out(lifting weights) and it takes generally 2-3 weeks to increase your weight lifted per exercise. As well as, how some exercises any weight increase is significant(forearms come to mind). I'm not a large person. I'm 5'9'' and I only weighed 115 at the time(Although I can bench more than I weight to be fair, and now weigh 128 at 11% BF.) (Not a gym rat though.)
Anyways, I used to do experiments with PEA, and I generally consumed around 1000mg at a time, to make sure I override internal MAO metabolism of it to ensure a good effect.
I remember I had just barely increased my weights in a full body workout, every muscle group in isolation and compound exercises as well.
I went to the gym took 1000mg of PEA, and it was for a class in college for weight training, so it was pretty serious and I was graded on form and knowledge and performance relative to myself.
Had a fitness midterm that day. I did over 100 pushups in 3 minutes(full and complete watched by a certified trainer with both ISSA and ACE certs) Full 10 minute wall sit, and I the day previous I had just gone up in weights across the board, but that day I lifted 20 pounds more in every muscle group, including forearms. Imagine a 115 guy doing 35 pound hammer curls, it was unreal. People thought I was a machine.
PEA makes you ridiculously strong. It can be really uncomfortable, but maybe most people don't get these results because they don't cross the required threshold of dosage to achieve such?
My 2cents

[HappyShoe]

Also, my first time ever taking it, I decided to mow the lawn, thinking it was nice out, and I had to anyway. A little bit in I called bullshit, thought I got ripped off, kept mowing. I started feeling odd, then like my feet weren't making contact with the ground like I was floating on the grass, proceeded to throw up mid walk, and continued on like nothing happened, all the while intensely euphoric. (Again about 1000mg) Always lasts an hour, but I can feel my blood pressure skyrocket(only real downside IMO) I normally have a very low BP too, not enough to be problematic, but riding the lowest line of healthy low BP. Tends to make you feel like garbage afterwards for about 2 hours, not mentally but physically, prolly from the BP. I'd consider taking it again on a hibiscus regimen as hibiscus is supposed to be comparable in effectiveness to the BP lowering drug captopril in lowering blood pressure.
Some people I've shared it with have horrible anxiety from it, so far 2 people, both women. Crushing anxiety for them, I don't offer it anymore.
Also this is the worst tasting/smelling stuff on the planet. It makes your face instinctively recoil from the container when your nose gets close.
My friend says tasting it is a test of manhood like African Bullet Ants, it's that awful, I can't imagine anything nastier on the planet.
It actually has made nothing else taste unbearable to me ever since, both me and friends who have endured ingesting it.
Like chemicals, mixed with concentrated cat urine. Blech...

[eon]

happyshoe do you take PEA with another compound? I heard of people mixing it with Hordenine. I still want to try PEA but might start off with its close relative phenylalanine, which I think can be taken before sleep. Kinda unusual for something that "keeps you up" during the day. Some sodas (diet?) have a note of containing phenylketonurics which is said to contain phenylalanine, also found in aspartame sweetener. PEA is derived from phenylalanine.


"Phenylalanine can cause mental retardation, brain damage, seizures and other problems in people with PKU. Phenylalanine occurs naturally in many protein-rich foods, such as milk, eggs and meat. Phenylalanine also is sold as a dietary supplement."

http://www.mayoclini...ne/faq-20058361

What could be the results of it for people without PKU?

[HappyShoe]

Phenylalanine without PKU should be totally fine. I've heard that DL-Phenylalanine helps with the production of endorphins and beta-enkephalins(endogenous opioids). I don't know if this applies to regular phenylalanine either or just the DL form. I haven't done much research into it admittedly. Phenylaline is the precursor for PEA in the body though.
PEA is actually in foods too, chocolate is a good source, although low dose PEA is so rapidly metabolized it won't exert a physiologically noticeable effect without supra-physiological doses which are enough to exceed your body's ability to metabolize it quickly enough. Hence, mega dosing.
I never took PEA with an MAO-B inhibitor, just by itself in high doses. Although this is kind of like using a jackhammer when you would really want a scalpel. =P The side effects are greater because it's really hard to achieve a desirable target dose since you're kinda taking enough to ensure it exceeds your metabolism capacity, so you end up with way more than you'd wand at once, and since it metabolizes so quickly, it's like the equivalent of injecting a large dose of stimulant because it hits so quick with all of the compound active immediately.
In animal experiments PEA is often used as a baseline model for anxiety, as in; it induces such a strong anxiety response they use it to test new medications for anxiety treatment or to evaluate side effects by comparison.
I was going to try it with DMSO though, in an attempt to make a transdermal application of PEA, but I would advise against trying this without being really safe about it, since it may be dangerous. Gotta shower first, clean the area and only use it in limbs from what I've read. It might not do much at all if anything, but the concern is with the DMSO, since it can bring anything on the skin right into the bloodstream. We'll see at some point.
I've heard you have to be careful with MAO-B inhibitors as some of them if you have too much, or take it for too long(and it builds up as a result), they stop being selective for MAO-B and start to inhibit MAO-A as well, which can easily become very dangerous.

Edited by HappyShoe, 06 April 2014 - 04:19 AM.

[ron45]

It is my understanding the DMSO can carry things it disolves across the blood brain barrier. I have been using it for decades, it is a very good free radical scavenger. So I use it for soreness or sprains, that sort of thing. But it would be an interesting thing to mix noots with it. You just have to apply it to an uncontaminated  area of you skin.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm. I bet it might work well with turmeric which is not well absorbed by us in it's natural state. Turmeric still  works  very well as an anti inflammatory at around 12 to 18  00 caps a day. It shut down  very bad shoulder pain in both shoulders in about 5 days on 18  caps a day. The pain was do to damage and debris in the rotator cuff area in both shoulders. Very painful. My shoulders aren't `fixed' they still clunk and don't feel right with certain moves but no pain for at least 18 months. I still take 8 caps a day. I wouldn't want to start a weight lifting program but other that that itls like I never had that pain and it was bad enough to elicit a vocal response if I did certain things like clasp my hands behind my head. Actually I couldn't get them any where near that far before pain cam roaring down the neuron  pathways.

 

Ron

Edited by ron45, 18 April 2014 - 12:55 AM.

[Duchykins]

I just got 100g of PEA several days ago. I also got D-phenylalanine (not DL), which apparently isn't as widely sold since I had to go out of my usual way and order it from a different company and a totally different brand. D-phenylalanine purportedly isn't absorbed into the body like L-phenylalanine (so very little will increase tyrosine and such, important for me because tyrosine helps make tyramine which is a very nasty migraine trigger) and instead D-phenyl inhibits an enzyme that breaks down certain endorphins, leading to having higher endorphin levels.

I went off most of my other supps to try PEA, which honestly sucks because my stacks keep me nearly free of migraines and sociable. I'm interested in PEA because I often take some cacao powder in part to get PEA and the pure PEA supplement is supposed to be better used as opposed to any food source

My first dose of PEA was only 100mg because I baby-step everything and I'm especially wary of stimulating things since my system has always been overexcitable. Holy shit it tastes worse than Nefiracetam and lingers in your mouth longer. PEA was a bit bizarre at first, then cool sailing for about 30 mins where I was brought out of my introverted shell, then gone, just like what happens with the cacao, except that there was a notable increase in heart rate, anxiety-irritability and general discomfort that lasted longer than 30 mins, which invariably means that norepinephrine got too high. I was really glad I didn't almost kill myself with the recommended dose of 500mg. I was still pissed off after an hour so I took 25mg 5-htp and 300mg of B8 (inositol enhances serotonin sensitivity) and finally calmed.

Next time (in the morning) I took another 100mg with half a cup of coffee, taurine, lysine, 5-htp, a weak B complex, extra Bs (thiamine, riboflavin, pantothenic acid, methylcobalamin, inositol), zinc, magnesium/calcium, theanine, methionine. All of these support either serotonin or GABA in some way without hitting you like a jackhammer (like phenibut). No megadoses of anything here, most were even below the minimum recommended doses since I was taking so many at the same time. I pepped up for a little over a hour with no noticable discomfort, even with the caffeine this time, and I was good the rest of the day. So that tells me the adverse effects of PEA's dopamine/norepinephrine increase can be mitigated by MODEST simultaneous support of serotonin and GABA, which makes sense given the nature and function of these neurotransmitters and is why I have most of those supps in the first place. However, it doesn't seem wise to do that with significantly higher doses.

I haven't taken PEA since because I'm waiting a little while longer to take D-phenylalanine and see what it does to me. Should be interesting. I have high hopes for its painkilling and mood elevating potential.

[eon]

Good call on starting with low dose first. I do this myself. The recommended starting dose of the PEA I bought was 750mg, a bit higher than the 500mg you mentioned. I might even start at 50mg. LOL. Another strong stimulant I have tried twice only was synephrine, only 10mg was noticeable for me. Maybe I'm sensitive.

[HappyShoe]

@Duchykins Yea, definitely the worst tasting thing I have ever experienced. If taste were a torture, this would be the go to substance. It's really that bad.

[medievil]

PEA is interesting, its very individual effect wise, some ppl fing it far superior to ritalin and amp, kinda like craze another stim that some ppl found superior, shame it disappeared.

[eon]

according to wikipedia, low dose of exogenous pea in the body is found in those suffering from ADHD, whereas high concentrations of pea is found in those with schizophrenia. Not sure why this is.

[Saffron]

This is the newest thread I found when i searched on PEA here, I take black pepper, green tea & dozens of milligrams of methylene blue . I only take 150 to 300 mg PEA Because of this and it feels the same as 1000 does without it. I made no mistake, rather I adjusted ahead of time. Only mistake i made is not lowering enough ahead of time, 400 to 500 was too strong and i felt a mild high blood pressure headache that was weak in intensity everytime i would take over 400 with these . i found that Papper and green tea lower the need to about 600 and Blue brings that down to around 250 (The 150 to 300 range) , So don't falsely think its just the blue and im wrong about the other two, all three of these jack up PEA. you need to be conservative with PEA ahead-of-time like I was, if you so-happen to be on a potentiator.

 

Please note that if you take low dose single-digit methylene blue as a "CoQ-10-like" aid, such as 0.2 mg to 10 mg, it will have very little to no effect on your PEA. Im referring to regular dose Oral M-Blue, which is well into double-digit. Vit C and antioxidants tend to reduce it so it cant even be seen in urine.

Edited by Saffron, 31 January 2018 - 08:27 PM.