32 replies to this topic

[RNixon]

I'm looking for advice on compiling my first stack. I take modafinil occasionally yet I don't feel the same as everybody else describes feeling. I'm aware that it affects everyone differently but I feel the effects are small. I become more alert and focused but it isn't optimal. One of the main things that I am looking to get out of nootropics is alertness. Even though I get sufficient sleep (8 to 9 hours daily), I'm still tired. I'm also looking to strengthen my brain so I have better focus, memory, and motivation. I plan on taking my stack daily but I don't have a surplus of money. Modafinil is doesn't provide enough bang for my buck. I'd really appreciate any advice or suggestions for my stack.

 

Stack:

7 AM

caffeine 100mg

L-theanine 200mg

racetam (or noopept) + choline (suggestions?)

sulbutiamine 500mg

 

5 PM

caffeine 100mg

L-theanine 200mg

racetam (or noopept) + choline (suggestions?)

sulbutiamine 500mg

 

Should I repeat everything at 5 PM for an all day effect? Are my dosages right?

 

Thanks for any help!

 

- RN

Edited by RNixon, 25 April 2014 - 06:33 PM.

[ZHMike]

Hey I am assuming you mean 100 mg of caffeine not 10 mg, if that is the case personally I would not be able to sleep with 100 mg of caffeine at 5pm. It has a relatively long half life, I believe it can also disrupt REM sleep so I would advise moving your caffeine dose earlier in the day, maybe closer to lunch.  Personally, sulbutiamine did nothing for me. Also when you are trying things, dont start everything at once, this way you can determine whats working for your.  Maybe take the caffeine for a week, then add the L-theanine, than add the racetam etc... otherwise you will not know what is benefiting you and what is doing jack.

 

I would also try Ciltep, I am on day 10 or so and loving it. It is really impressive stuff!.. good luck keep us posted.

 

 

btw I did not have great luck with racetams, but again if you add one thing at a time, you can see what works for you.

Edited by ZHMike, 25 April 2014 - 06:33 PM.

[RNixon]

Hey I am assuming you mean 100 mg of caffeine not 10 mg, if that is the case personally I would not be able to sleep with 100 mg of caffeine at 5pm. It has a relatively long half life, I believe it can also disrupt REM sleep so I would advise moving your caffeine dose earlier in the day, maybe closer to lunch.  Personally, sulbutiamine did nothing for me. Also when you are trying things, dont start everything at once, this way you can determine whats working for your.  Maybe take the caffeine for a week, then add the L-theanine, than add the racetam etc... otherwise you will not know what is benefiting you and what is doing jack.

 

I would also try Ciltep, I am on day 10 or so and loving it. It is really impressive stuff!.. good luck keep us posted.

 

I fixed my typo. I go to bed around 10 o'clock so would pushing my afternoon stack up to 3 PM be a more effective time slot? Is 100mg good enough or is it too much? I'll look in to CILTEP. Thanks for the suggestions. 

 

- RN

[ModaMinds]

Since you mentioned you're still sleepy after 8-9 hours of sleep, did the modafinil make this sleepiness go away? On days where I get sleep but am still tired throughout the day, modafinil merely brings me back to normalcy, which is technically what it's intended to do. To move past that normalcy and get the more off-label, enhanced focus effects, you may need to up the dose by 50-100%.

 

Otherwise, I have found simple routines to "wake me up" in the morning help with the effects of modafinil throughout the day. If I'm tired, I'll do 30-40 push-ups, maybe walk around outside for a bit, and just get my body energized and blood flowing, that way I'm more focused naturally, then the modafinil helps take me past that.

Edited by ModaMinds, 25 April 2014 - 06:37 PM.

[ZHMike]

Personally I take ciltep in the AM, 200 mg of caffeine before lunch, than another ciltep around 3am... A typical cup of coffee I believe is 80 mg, so 100 mg twice daily should be ok. 

[RNixon]

Since you mentioned you're still sleepy after 8-9 hours of sleep, did the modafinil make this sleepiness go away? On days where I get sleep but am still tired throughout the day, modafinil merely brings me back to normalcy, which is technically what it's intended to do. To move past that normalcy and get the more off-label, enhanced focus effects, you may need to up the dose by 50-100%.

 

Otherwise, I have found simple routines to "wake me up" in the morning help with the effects of modafinil throughout the day. If I'm tired, I'll do 30-40 push-ups, maybe walk around outside for a bit, and just get my body energized and blood flowing, that way I'm more focused naturally, then the modafinil helps take me past that.

Modafinil brings me back to being "normal". I tried different things to help wake me up but it would just wear off and bring me back to where I started, tired. I tried taking cold showers, eating a big but healthy breakfast, and some walking but I'm still tired. :/ I'll try taking the dose up and I'll see where it takes me.

[ModaMinds]

 

Since you mentioned you're still sleepy after 8-9 hours of sleep, did the modafinil make this sleepiness go away? On days where I get sleep but am still tired throughout the day, modafinil merely brings me back to normalcy, which is technically what it's intended to do. To move past that normalcy and get the more off-label, enhanced focus effects, you may need to up the dose by 50-100%.

 

Otherwise, I have found simple routines to "wake me up" in the morning help with the effects of modafinil throughout the day. If I'm tired, I'll do 30-40 push-ups, maybe walk around outside for a bit, and just get my body energized and blood flowing, that way I'm more focused naturally, then the modafinil helps take me past that.

Modafinil brings me back to being "normal". I tried different things to help wake me up but it would just wear off and bring me back to where I started, tired. I tried taking cold showers, eating a big but healthy breakfast, and some walking but I'm still tired. :/ I'll try taking the dose up and I'll see where it takes me.

 

 

Do take into account that eating a large breakfast will lessen the effect of modafinil, or at least severely delay its onset. It's meant to be taken on an empty stomach. On days I take modafinil, my routine is usually to get out of bed, do some wake-me-up routines, take the modafinil, then eat 30-60 minutes later.

Edited by ModaMinds, 25 April 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[RNixon]

 

Personally I take ciltep in the AM, 200 mg of caffeine before lunch, than another ciltep around 3am... A typical cup of coffee I believe is 80 mg, so 100 mg twice daily should be ok. 

 

Hey ZHMike,

 

Glad you are getting some awesome results from MasterMind!

 

RNixon: if you would like to see the exact ingredient list of what ZHMike is taking, let me know and i can help clarify everything for you.

 

I would love to see an exact ingredient list of CILTEP. Is it just artichoke extract and forskolin?

 

 

 

Since you mentioned you're still sleepy after 8-9 hours of sleep, did the modafinil make this sleepiness go away? On days where I get sleep but am still tired throughout the day, modafinil merely brings me back to normalcy, which is technically what it's intended to do. To move past that normalcy and get the more off-label, enhanced focus effects, you may need to up the dose by 50-100%.

 

Otherwise, I have found simple routines to "wake me up" in the morning help with the effects of modafinil throughout the day. If I'm tired, I'll do 30-40 push-ups, maybe walk around outside for a bit, and just get my body energized and blood flowing, that way I'm more focused naturally, then the modafinil helps take me past that.

Modafinil brings me back to being "normal". I tried different things to help wake me up but it would just wear off and bring me back to where I started, tired. I tried taking cold showers, eating a big but healthy breakfast, and some walking but I'm still tired. :/ I'll try taking the dose up and I'll see where it takes me.

 

 

Do take into account that eating a large breakfast will lessen the effect of modafinil, or at least severely delay its onset. It's meant to be taken on an empty stomach. On days I take modafinil, my routine is usually to get out of bed, do some wake-me-up routines, take the modafinil, then eat 30-60 minutes later.

 

I'll be sure to take it on an empty stomach then try a double dose. 

 

Would a stack of just CILTEP and caffeine work well for my desired effect?

[Ritchie]

Have you looked into a dopamine precursor? You can try either L-tyrosine(Weak precursor) or Mucuna Pruriens(Strong Precursor). Increasing dopamine could help with alertness, as a symptom of catecholamine deficiency generally includes fatigue aswell as problems concentration and laziness. Just make sure to also take a serotonin precursor(5htp is fine) if your going to take a dopamine precursor because catecholamines deplete serotonin and vice versa.

 

I'd imagine Mucuna Pruriens would be the most bang for your buck though, as it contains the direct precursors to both serotonin and dopamine and has shown to have numerous health benefits, lowering cortisol levels and stabilizing blood sugar among other.

You can read more about it here: http://examine.com/s...ucuna pruriens/

Just don't take it for too long, as their is some skepticism supporting it's safety.

 

 

Edited by Ritchie, 26 April 2014 - 03:02 AM.

[RNixon]

Have you looked into a dopamine precursor? You can try either L-tyrosine(Weak precursor) or Mucuna Pruriens(Strong Precursor). Increasing dopamine could help with alertness, as a symptom of catecholamine deficiency generally includes fatigue aswell as problems concentration and laziness. Just make sure to also take a serotonin precursor(5htp is fine) if your going to take a dopamine precursor because catecholamines deplete serotonin and vice versa.

 

I'd imagine Mucuna Pruriens would be the most bang for your buck though, as it contains the direct precursors to both serotonin and dopamine and has shown to have numerous health benefits, lowering cortisol levels and stabilizing blood sugar among other.

You can read more about it here: http://examine.com/s...ucuna pruriens/

Just don't take it for too long, as their is some skepticism supporting it's safety.

 

 

How long is too long? I'm looking for something to boost my mental capacity in the long run.

[Ritchie]

 

Have you looked into a dopamine precursor? You can try either L-tyrosine(Weak precursor) or Mucuna Pruriens(Strong Precursor). Increasing dopamine could help with alertness, as a symptom of catecholamine deficiency generally includes fatigue aswell as problems concentration and laziness. Just make sure to also take a serotonin precursor(5htp is fine) if your going to take a dopamine precursor because catecholamines deplete serotonin and vice versa.

 

I'd imagine Mucuna Pruriens would be the most bang for your buck though, as it contains the direct precursors to both serotonin and dopamine and has shown to have numerous health benefits, lowering cortisol levels and stabilizing blood sugar among other.

You can read more about it here: http://examine.com/s...ucuna pruriens/

Just don't take it for too long, as their is some skepticism supporting it's safety.

 

 

How long is too long? I'm looking for something to boost my mental capacity in the long run.

 

It contains the direct precursor to dopamine, as such it does tend to give acute effects of heigtened dopamine levels like sense of well-being/mild euphoria, increased focus, increased energy, increased motivation etc.

However doing this in the long term would tend to cause dopamine down regulation. As such it would be best to use in the short term for when you really need it. I'd say using it everyday for up to 2 weeks would be fine. Just try to give your dopamine receptors a couple of weeks of rest afterwards.

 

However I'd imagine you could use it in the long term in very low doses just to give a small boost of dopamine and serotonin every day, and too profit from it's other numerous health benefits!

 

[RNixon]

 

 

Have you looked into a dopamine precursor? You can try either L-tyrosine(Weak precursor) or Mucuna Pruriens(Strong Precursor). Increasing dopamine could help with alertness, as a symptom of catecholamine deficiency generally includes fatigue aswell as problems concentration and laziness. Just make sure to also take a serotonin precursor(5htp is fine) if your going to take a dopamine precursor because catecholamines deplete serotonin and vice versa.

 

I'd imagine Mucuna Pruriens would be the most bang for your buck though, as it contains the direct precursors to both serotonin and dopamine and has shown to have numerous health benefits, lowering cortisol levels and stabilizing blood sugar among other.

You can read more about it here: http://examine.com/s...ucuna pruriens/

Just don't take it for too long, as their is some skepticism supporting it's safety.

 

 

How long is too long? I'm looking for something to boost my mental capacity in the long run.

 

It contains the direct precursor to dopamine, as such it does tend to give acute effects of heigtened dopamine levels like sense of well-being/mild euphoria, increased focus, increased energy, increased motivation etc.

However doing this in the long term would tend to cause dopamine down regulation. As such it would be best to use in the short term for when you really need it. I'd say using it everyday for up to 2 weeks would be fine. Just try to give your dopamine receptors a couple of weeks of rest afterwards.

 

However I'd imagine you could use it in the long term in very low doses just to give a small boost of dopamine and serotonin every day, and too profit from it's other numerous health benefits!

 

 

Would I add a dopamine precursor with CILTEP or would I just take it alone?

[Ritchie]

 

 

 

Have you looked into a dopamine precursor? You can try either L-tyrosine(Weak precursor) or Mucuna Pruriens(Strong Precursor). Increasing dopamine could help with alertness, as a symptom of catecholamine deficiency generally includes fatigue aswell as problems concentration and laziness. Just make sure to also take a serotonin precursor(5htp is fine) if your going to take a dopamine precursor because catecholamines deplete serotonin and vice versa.

 

I'd imagine Mucuna Pruriens would be the most bang for your buck though, as it contains the direct precursors to both serotonin and dopamine and has shown to have numerous health benefits, lowering cortisol levels and stabilizing blood sugar among other.

You can read more about it here: http://examine.com/s...ucuna pruriens/

Just don't take it for too long, as their is some skepticism supporting it's safety.

 

 

How long is too long? I'm looking for something to boost my mental capacity in the long run.

 

It contains the direct precursor to dopamine, as such it does tend to give acute effects of heigtened dopamine levels like sense of well-being/mild euphoria, increased focus, increased energy, increased motivation etc.

However doing this in the long term would tend to cause dopamine down regulation. As such it would be best to use in the short term for when you really need it. I'd say using it everyday for up to 2 weeks would be fine. Just try to give your dopamine receptors a couple of weeks of rest afterwards.

 

However I'd imagine you could use it in the long term in very low doses just to give a small boost of dopamine and serotonin every day, and too profit from it's other numerous health benefits!

 

 

Would I add a dopamine precursor with CILTEP or would I just take it alone?

 

First try taking it alone to see how you react. Then you can try slowly to incorporate in to the CILTEP with very low doses.

 

[AmpleBeingdotcom]

commercial

 

[RNixon]

I ordered AmpleBeingdotcom's CILTEP stack. I'll keep this thread updated with how it affected me. I also tried taking modafinil on an empty stomach and noticed improvements in focus. I took two today on a full stomach; I didn't want to take it too early and the only time that was reasonable was about an hour after I ate. I've noticed the affects are a lot stronger and I'm pushed past the barrier of being "normal". My focus is a lot better but I feel slight tension in the lower back part of my brain (hypothalamus?). Overall, I think the dose was slightly too high and I'm going to try taking one and a half.

 

EDIT: Should I take caffeine with a CILTEP stack or does it contain something to keep me alert and awake? 

Edited by RNixon, 27 April 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[AmpleBeingdotcom]

RNixon,

 

Try taking it by itself for a 7-10 days. Some of our customers get the intended effects by itself right away and some need the caffeine boost to help amplify the effects. It entirely depends on your body type and your past use of caffeine and nootropics. 

 

ZHMike stated above that he is taking 4 caps split throughout the day with caffeine in-between them. Maybe Mike can chime in here and tell us if he started with this method or adjusted?

 

If you really want a very noticeable nootropic effect caffeine will definitely help stimulate the ingredients, so i would just ask yourself what results you are looking for

[RNixon]

RNixon,

 

Try taking it by itself for a 7-10 days. Some of our customers get the intended effects by itself right away and some need the caffeine boost to help amplify the effects. It entirely depends on your body type and your past use of caffeine and nootropics. 

 

ZHMike stated above that he is taking 4 caps split throughout the day with caffeine in-between them. Maybe Mike can chime in here and tell us if he started with this method or adjusted?

 

If you really want a very noticeable nootropic effect caffeine will definitely help stimulate the ingredients, so i would just ask yourself what results you are looking for

I've been taking CILTEP since Sunday and I'm going to pick up some caffeine to take with it. I take two caps when I wake up and then another before lunch. Sadly, I'm still constantly tired but it has gotten a bit better. Hopefully, 100 mg of caffeine with each dose will help amplify the effects. I'll keep this thread updated for records and future reference. 

[ZHMike]

yea I take 100-200 mg caffeine before lunch, I also take 300 mg adrafinil with the AM Ciltep.  I did try the Ciltep alone it worked pretty well, but I am have always need extra stim, together I think there is some nice synergy. 

[RNixon]

yea I take 100-200 mg caffeine before lunch, I also take 300 mg adrafinil with the AM Ciltep.  I did try the Ciltep alone it worked pretty well, but I am have always need extra stim, together I think there is some nice synergy. 

Is there a difference between modafinil and adrafinil or do they have similar effects?

[ZHMike]

Although adrafinil converts to modafinil in the liver (effects should be similar?) personally I think modafanil is better, its also a pretty safe drug. I would try 100-200mg modafnil in the AM with 2 ciltep, than like 100 mg of caffeine before lunch, finally 1 more ciltep mid afternoon. This stack should really be pretty potent.. how are you getting the modafinil? again keep me posted, we have similar stacks I am interested in how it goes for you. 

[RNixon]

Although adrafinil converts to modafinil in the liver (effects should be similar?) personally I think modafanil is better, its also a pretty safe drug. I would try 100-200mg modafnil in the AM with 2 ciltep, than like 100 mg of caffeine before lunch, finally 1 more ciltep mid afternoon. This stack should really be pretty potent.. how are you getting the modafinil? again keep me posted, we have similar stacks I am interested in how it goes for you. 

I order modafinil; if you PM me, I'll send you the link. The main reason I'm asking about this is because I'm trying to get away from modafinil. I bought it at a higher price than I wanted ($2.17/pill). I didn't want to buy in huge bulk for a lower price ($1.39/pill) but I think that is still a tad expensive for everyday use. I can just pick-up caffeine pills from my local grocery store or super store, yes?

[RNixon]

I've been adding 100 mg of caffeine to my stack in the morning and 200 mg during lunch. Is it safe to take 400 mg/day or will that build a tolerance a lot quicker?

[ron45]

RItchie, I did some reading on Mucuna prur. it seem like you'd have to trust your sourse for this item. Where do you get yours? Searching on froogle there are lots of sources. Would I be correct in assuming that extracts might be the most  bang for the buck. Some of the products claim 15% L dopa, The ayur vedic ones just allude to precursors. Got any info on what percentage is enough?

 

Sorry for all the questions.

 

Ron

 

Edited by ron45, 11 May 2014 - 12:19 AM.

[RNixon]

RItchie, I did some reading on Mucuna prur. it seem like you'd have to trust your sourse for this item. Where do you get yours? Searching on froogle there are lots of sources. Would I be correct in assuming that extracts might be the most  bang for the buck. Some of the products claim 15% L dopa, The ayur vedic ones just allude to precursors. Got any info on what percentage is enough?

 

Sorry for all the questions.

 

Ron

 

I'm not taking Muncuna prur. I'm currently just taking CILTEP and caffeine.

[ron45]

So do you sell mucuna p. or just like spelling the words? Or is it something you just read about?

 

Just curios, are you a fan of the guy in your photo file?

[Ritchie]

RItchie, I did some reading on Mucuna prur. it seem like you'd have to trust your sourse for this item. Where do you get yours? Searching on froogle there are lots of sources. Would I be correct in assuming that extracts might be the most  bang for the buck. Some of the products claim 15% L dopa, The ayur vedic ones just allude to precursors. Got any info on what percentage is enough?

 

Sorry for all the questions.

 

Ron

 

I get mine from http://www.iherb.com...a-90-Vcaps/8673.

From what i've heard, the lower the L-dopa the better. This is because mucuna pruriens is supposed to contain other beneficial alkaloid which you're getting less of when you get a 99% L-dopa extract. Though I can't attest to this because I'm not an expert on mucuna pruriens.

 

I would try to get the natural, whole plant powder if I were you. There are a lot of cases(Kava, for example) where the whole herbs are beneficial, but the extracts prove harmful.

Edited by Ritchie, 11 May 2014 - 11:40 PM.

[ron45]

I found some w/15% l dopa. Seems to me, if they make the extract from the whole plant [ I've seen just seed powder as a product choice ] you will at least get all the compounds that are soluble in the extraction medium. So far, water is all I seen and fairly low temp at that. The medium for extracting and the temp could likely have a variable result. So much to know, so little time. I need one of those ports like  Keanu Reeves had in the matrix…. load me up w/chemistry... ALL of it!!

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Ron

[confabulationpowder]

You should definitely consider Phenylpiracetam.

[RNixon]

It seems that CILTEP doesn't affect me very much. I have been taking 2 capsules of CILTEP (from AmpleBeing) and 200 mg of caffeine every morning and I don't see much, if any, of a difference in my performance. I have also taken it with modafinil and it is hard to be sure if it really changed anything. I'm going to boost the dosage up to the max recommended which is 4 capsules. I'm looking for suggestions for other products as I don't think CILTEP is working for me. Does anyone recommend bulletproof coffee?

[ron45]

If the D E A banned caffeine I think it might end the nootropics biddniss. Caffeine and nicotine patches might do the same thing for those just seeking energy and focus. Just a pessimistic thought……...

 

I've taken three grams of piracetam and 680mg of pramiracetam and don't get much sustained alertness, but 2 nodoz and some L theanine and mucuna P. and your good for a few hours. Different strokes I guess. I want my ephedrine back! This country is a puritan dork! One red neck college kid on his first speed binge wrecked it for everyone. The D onut E aters A gainsteverything are sitting around waiting with their finger on the button hoping some dipshit will O D on Nupept or sulbutiamine.

 

Ron