11 replies to this topic

[j87]

I go to sleep at 4am, I wake up around 1pm. If I go to sleep before 3am-4am, I will wake up around 6am or earlier. I am only able to get about 5 hrs sleep if I go to bed that early. I'll feel very alert and good until about 9pm. When the sun is out I get extremely sleepy and have to go back to bed again, sleeping for another 6 hours. 

 

I've been like this as far as I can remember, even when I had jobs and had to go to school in the morning. I'd make myself wake up and get through the day (being extremely groggy and unfocused). I'd have to take naps in my car at lunch, then when I get home have to take at least an hour nap. 

 

Things I've tried:

caffiene

adrafanil

light therapy

melatonin

 

I can take adrafanil, 2 cups of coffee, go outside in the sun and stare to the sky for 30 mins, come back inside and still feel the need to sleep. I feel most alert at night time.

 

 

Any suggestions much appreciated. 

[Jeoshua]

You've tried light therapy, but have you tried dark therapy? The idea is to remove all lights and electronic devices from your bedroom, and force yourself to stay in it from 8pm-6am without fail. You can do anything you want, during that time, but lack of light and stimulation is likely to leave you with only one option: sleep.

I've had a similar problem with sleep, before, and this greatly helped me, along with staying away from anything stimulating after noon and never allowing myself to get more than 8 hours sleep, or to sleep during the day, no matter how much I wanted to.

Or, you know, get a night job.

Edited by Jeoshua, 08 May 2014 - 11:32 PM.

[Flex]

Only thing I know what is related to this is Cicardian rhythm

http://en.wikipedia....ircadian_rhythm

 

Lithium can mildly regulate it

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0033292

 

[j87]

Update - I think I've found the answer. The past few nights I've taken 5htp (time release) at night. I can only get about 5 hours of sleep but feel fine the next day, I do need to take a nap still but much later (around 4:00pm) and not as long. I was taking 5htp during the day which didn't help.

[Strelok]

1. Abstain from coffee/caffeine no less than 8 hours before you want to go to bed (for me, 10 hours is best).  It's probably best to just avoid coffee/caffeine altogether until you get things figured out.
2. Plenty of blue light (early and mid day sunlight) into the eyes early in the day.  Bare minimum is one hour per day.
3. Exercise.  A regular exercise routine earlier in the day can work wonders.  I have found high intensity resistance training to be most helpful
4. Reduce light entering the eyes later in the evening, especially blue light.  Common blue light sources in the evening are flourescent lights and electronic displays (TVs, computer monitors/screens, cell phones, etc.).  If using a computer in the evening, utilize a program like F.lux or, for a smartphone, Twilight. 
5. Take .5 - 1mg melatonin 30-60 minutes before bed.  Other helpful supplements may include, but are not limited to: bacopa, low dose lithium orotate (5-10 mg), ashwagandha, and magnesium.  You may also find using resistant starch (e.g. potato starch) before bed each night will help you sleep better. 
6. Turn off electronics, etc. in your bedroom at night.  I put my cell phone on airplane mode, and make sure my room is completely dark.  Here are some other tips that you may find useful:  http://articles.merc...ight-sleep.aspx
7. Be disciplined about your sleep schedule.  Go to bed at the same time each night (preferably no later than 11pm, ideally 10pm), and wake up at about the same time each day.  If you must sleep in, do not sleep more than 1 hour past your normal wakeup time. 

 

[protoject]

About melatonin: I've seen some evidence that doctors used it more effectively by dosing 3 or 4 hours before bed rather than the aformentioned 30-60 mins. This helps to drag your sleep schedule backwards. Personally there was a time where melatonin helped me to a degree but these days it has paradoxical effects of forcing me to wake up earlier than I want to.

[j87]

About melatonin: I've seen some evidence that doctors used it more effectively by dosing 3 or 4 hours before bed rather than the aformentioned 30-60 mins. This helps to drag your sleep schedule backwards. Personally there was a time where melatonin helped me to a degree but these days it has paradoxical effects of forcing me to wake up earlier than I want to.

 

A doctor told me the same thing, a very small dose (micrograms) about 4 hours before you plan on sleeping. I only have the 1mg, so I can't take it that early or it would knock me out. I sleep well but wake up 3 hours later.

[protoject]

 

A doctor told me the same thing, a very small dose (micrograms) about 4 hours before you plan on sleeping. I only have the 1mg, so I can't take it that early or it would knock me out. I sleep well but wake up 3 hours later.

 

 

You can easily titrate the dose to 300 mcg (0.3 mg) by using the liquid format of the supplement. If it's not locally availible it should be availible online-hopefully wherever you live allows imports of the substance if that is the case.

[j87]

Have been using liquid and time release (300mcg), 300 - 600mcg is the sweet spot, seriously a godsend. I have never used this low of dose before, the lowest I've used was 1mg which is too much and explains why I didn't get good results. I have been sleeping 8 hours per night. 

 

The only thing- I still get tired at a certain time every day, around 5pm. It will last about 3 hours, and if I take a nap during that time then I have trouble going to bed on time. I haven't figured out how to fix this other than take caffeine and keep myself busy with something that requires no mental concentration.

[Strelok]

You need to fight thru that urge to take a nap or consume caffeine.  Even if you have to go exercise, or walk, or whatever, do something to get past the lull in energy.  And do not use caffeine late in the day.  I suggest nothing past noon in case you are a slow metabolizer of caffeine, and even then it might be better to just abstain. 

 

I recently started testing out taking 3g of glycine before bed and it seems to help me sleep more deeply.  It's only been a week or so, so things might change.  Crossing my fingers...

[HoldingTheFaith]

Methylcobalamin is very effective for this kind of sleep disorder. Look it up in Google Scholar, I would go right away and buy some sublingual.

 

5 hours of sleep is clearly not eanough, but if you feel fine then you are better off than me with my unrefreshing 7-9 hours lol

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 19 October 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[jroseland]

You've tried light therapy, but have you tried dark therapy? The idea is to remove all lights and electronic devices from your bedroom, and force yourself to stay in it from 8pm-6am without fail. You can do anything you want, during that time, but lack of light and stimulation is likely to leave you with only one option: sleep.

I agree with this!

 

I've had a lively mind and an overactive imagination for as long as I can remember; which has led me to lead a life of adventure and novelty seeking. The unfortunate downside to this is that for as long I can remember I was on the insomnia spectrum; getting to sleep has always been a challenge. There is always just so much to think about! As a teenager, I remember wondering...

What should I be thinking about to go to sleep?

 

 

Read: What to think about to go to sleep...