64 replies to this topic

[Infernity]

Well, I know alcohol is not too healthy, although I do know a glass of red wine once a day is good for the heart.

May anyone please tell me about it, what is there in the red wine that makes it healthy?

What are the disadvantages?

Etcetera...

Thanks

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[jaydfox]

Well, the first thing a lot of people will say is "it's the resveratrol", but the evidence on that is slim and sketchy so far.

So that would be my first warning, is to not let someone lead you down the road that "it's just the resveratrol, so buy resveratrol supplements instead", because until we have human studies of long duration and good controls, the most we can know for certain is that red wine in small daily doses can add years to a typical person's lifespan.

Of course, that's the second warning, which is that the typical person doesn't exercise or eat a nutritious diet, so we don't know if red wine will do health-conscious people as much or any good.

[eternaltraveler]

They've done similar studies on scotch that show it's good for you too )

[eternaltraveler]

perhaps small amounts of EtOH are good for us afterall

[Infernity]

[glasses]
I see, thanks Jay...
The last paragraph has confused me, does it mean we should be doing this, right?

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[zoolander]

Lets not forget that red wine has been shown to relax people as do most alcoholic beverages in moderate dosages. Therefore, the health benefits may also come from a psychological benefit.

I think in general, people need to relax more.

Infernity, I take a red wine supplement because my body cannot metabolise alcohol well.

yes yes....I am a cheap date.

[jaydfox]

I see, thanks Jay...
The last paragraph has confused me, does it mean we should be doing this, right?

I was sticking to what we know. We don't know if resveratrol supplements will improve health or allow us to live longer. And my last paragraph stated that we don't know if red wine will help health-conscious people—i.e. people who exercise and eat very healthy, nutritionally optimized diets—to be healthier or live longer. There's an outside chance that whatever is in the red wine that benefits "average" people (who don't exercise, eat too much, and get poor nutrition), might not benefit health-conscious people, and that other things in the red wine might actually harm us.

I doubt it, but I figured the caveat needed to be mentioned.

[Chip]

I take Blueberry IQ supplements (just ran out today, got to order some more) and I have my wife and mother-in-law taking them too. Besides one of the richest sources of resveratrol, it has other anthocyanins that have been shown to have many benefits. Besides taking those, I also get the three pound bags of frozen blueberries from Costco, non-pesticide grown and about $6.50 a bag. My kids eat about a cup a day which is easier than getting them to swallow the supps. I've also almost completely cut out my consumption of ice cream in preference for the berries. I think that is a major reason why I have lost a lot of weight over the last couple of months. When buying grapes or plums, I now look for the darkest varieties as they apparently contain more of these anthocyanins including the resveratrol. Here is a site that seems to cover resveratrol pretty well, though, I understand there is strong evidence that the longevity gene activation experimentation was fudged by some researchers who held direct profit making motive in a resveratrol product they brought to market.

http://www.lef.org/resveratrol/

[athanatos]

Alcohol makes me tired (dont worry I only drink a little under parental supervision lol [thumb]) ...I dont like it that much, because I prefer to be awake.

[eternaltraveler]

I drink a glass of scotch about 3 times a week.

We won't get into what quantities I may have imbibed at one point or another in the past ).

[Shepard]

Seeing as I am still in college, and run sound for a local rock band at bars a couple of times every month, my alcohol intake is probably a little more than it should be. I only drink on the weekends, since I don't feel like alcohol is something that should be consumed daily due to the effects it has on your hormones.

[Mark Hamalainen]

binge drinking is much worse for your health than a single drink per day

[eternaltraveler]

binge drinking is much worse for your health than a single drink per day

Not to nitpick, but this statement indicates that a single drink per day is in anyway bad for you. There is plenty of evidence that the opposite is the case.

[Shepard]

binge drinking is much worse for your health than a single drink per day

No doubt, but no reason to make it worse by drinking during the week.

[Pablo M]

I thought I would mention that LEF's Disease Prevention and Treatment states that the effect of alcohol in your body is akin to radiation damage. It generates "massive" amounts of free radicals. It also mows down dendrites like blades of grass in a reliable Japanese lawnmower. LifeMirage has stated that this brain damage is inevitable, but I don't recall ever reading a reference as to whether he drinks. I agree with Chip that a good way to go is berries. They have a lot of the same polyphenols as grapes, so it's safe to assume they too will provide benefits. That being said, I do like to imbibe occasionally, although my chosen drink is vodka and free of any real or imagined antioxidant benefit. [lol] There are a limited number of vices, and fewer still healthy ones.

[Pablo M]

I thought I would mention that LEF's Disease Prevention and Treatment states that the effect of alcohol in your body is akin to radiation damage. It generates "massive" amounts of free radicals. It also mows down dendrites like blades of grass in a reliable Japanese lawnmower. LifeMirage has stated that this brain damage is inevitable, but I don't recall ever reading a reference as to whether he drinks. I agree with Chip that a good way to go is berries. They have a lot of the same polyphenols as grapes, so it's safe to assume they too will provide benefits. That being said, I do like to imbibe occasionally, although my chosen drink is vodka and free of any real or imagined antioxidant benefit. [lol] There are a limited number of vices, and fewer still healthy ones.

[johnmk]

There is also the possibility that the healthiest individuals are those who benefit the most from red wine consumption since ideally we have good anti-oxidant status, and good oxidation status in general, so perhaps we can fight off any negative effects and reap all the rewards. Just a thought. Maybe wrong but there it is.

[Infernity]

Oh really Graeme? [tung] I'd never tell this on you heh.

Thanks for the replies guys, well all types of berries have lots of sugar in it too, so it's not too good to eat a lot of it...

I personally don't drink at all, perhaps because I'm 14 and a good girl [thumb] hmm, I think when legal I'll start having a glass of red wine a couple of times per week or something, I were to taste red wine, must admit, it has a taste of more, but not hard to do without.

dantecubit, internet problems? heh you've posted a double.

Tell me once there's anything certain please.

Thanks for the info

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[DukeNukem]

Chip, I've never read that blueberries are a significant source of resveratrol, and I'm a HUGE fan of blueberries for their long list of health benefits. They are truly a superfood. But resveratrol is not one of their benefits, as far as I know.

Wine is a somewhat self-defeating method of obtaining resveratrol, as I've gathered from the vast material I've read on this topic. You can probably gain some benefit from moderate wine consumption, but the benefit would be much greater by getting resveratrol (or better, the full range of wine polyphenols) from a non-alcoholic source. Wine is high in calories, and even moderate alcohol intake is more detrimental to health than beneficial (except, perhaps, in the case of very high-stress individuals).

I personally make sure I get copious grape polyphenols and especially resveratrol from numerous supplements and extracts, without the detriment of alcohol.

Scott

[johnmk]

I will reduce my consumption of wine by half forthwith.

[jaydfox]

It generates "massive" amounts of free radicals.

So does exercise.

[Infernity]

So, should I give up on this after all...? [glasses]

Wait, what made people think it is good from the first place, it's pretty common.

~Infernity

[Infernity]

So does exercise.

OMG! is it really??

Everything we do is harming us then, I mean what the hell?
Can you point a single thing that does not harm at all? [huh]

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

Edited by infernity, 13 July 2005 - 05:51 PM.

[Mark Hamalainen]

Everything we do harming us then, I mean what the hell?

Oxygen is poisonous. Exercise generates free radicals. Sunlight cross-links your proteins and mutates your DNA. Its a dangerous environment...

Moderation is always good advice.

can you point a single thing that does not harm at all?

I've never heard of learning being detrimental to your health.

[Shepard]

I've never heard of learning being detrimental to your health.

Learn too much......become cynical and suicidal/homicidal.

[jaydfox]

It generates "massive" amounts of free radicals.

So does exercise.

OMG! is it really??

Everything we do harming us then, I mean what the hell?
Can you point a single thing that does not harm at all?

My point was that just because it does something that is "bad" on face value, that doesn't mean that it doesn't benefit us. Exercise generates free radicals, lots and lots and lots of them. This damages mitochondrial DNA, and by chain reactions it can have a minimal effect on nuclear DNA as well. These are bad things.

On the other hand, the stress to the mitochondria helps kick in the cells' natural autophagy system, which gobbles up the most damaged mitochondria, and the relatively healthier ones that survive go through a process of replications to replace the damaged ones.

Also, the damage causes the cells' to increase production of antioxidant enzymes and ship them to where they do the most good: inside the mitochondria. You can't get that benefit from supplements or nutrition.

Also, exercise helps tune your mitochondria, so they produce less free radicals for the 23 hours a day that you're not exercising.

And of course, let's not forget that exercise improves cardiovascular health and muscle health and bone health, especially if it's rigorous and involves a decent amount of resistance.

All in all, for whatever damage exercise causes, you get a fairly substantial net benefit. Just use moderation. Three hours of exercise per day, seven days a week, is most likely going to shorten your life. Half an hour to an hour a day, three or four days a week, will most likely extend your life. Moderation is the key.

The same is true for red wine. We know that binging is bad for your health, but we know that the French live 3 to 5 years longer than Americans, after controlling for smoking, exercise, diet, and obesity (and probably other things as well). Red wine seems to be a major factor, in moderation, of course.

[Infernity]

I am now really really really freaked out!!

Well Mark,
Learning doesn't is not something we can stop, for as long as we live heh, life experience is evolving for as long as the brain functions, so we always learn, brain work is also damaging somewhat isn't it? [tung] hehehehe.


Wow Jay, if my mom does exercise about a hour per day about 6 days a week, is it OK? [huh]

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[Mark Hamalainen]

Wow, is that from The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog??? That brings me back to the days of getting up at 7am for saturday morning cartoons...

brain work is also damaging somewhat isn't it?

Indeed, but like muscles, not using your brain would cause atrophy.

[Infernity]

Wow, is that from The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog??? That brings me back to the days of getting up at 7am for saturday morning cartoons...

Hehehe was googling in the pictures section "freaked out cartoon" or something like that [tung] I used to get up at 6 AM for Saturday morning cartoons too (TV though) hehe, crazy me.
I now don't find television too interesting.

Indeed, but like muscles, not using your brain would cause atrophy.

LOL yes, all we do kills us. We're so weak.

Would someone do a list of advantages and disadvantages of drinking a glass of wine per day?

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[jaydfox]

Wow Jay, if my mom does exercise about a hour per day about 6 days a week, is it OK?

I'm sure it's better than not exercising at all, so in that sense, her exercise is definitely helping her.

However, if you want to split hairs, the question that might matter more is whether she gets any additional benefit, over what she could get if she only exercised a half hour a day, six days a week, or only exercised an hour a day, three to four times a week. In other words, if she cut her exercise program in half, would it help her live longer? I should be careful to make it clear that this is not the same as asking if cutting her exercise will make her feel "healthier". Sometimes, the things that make you feel "healthier" also shorten your life.

But getting back to your question, is an hour a day, six days a week, too much? Since I don't have a degree in molecular biology, I won't speculate on this one. Besides, I doubt the difference is big enough to be worried about. Like I said, I would feel confident warning someone not to exercise three hours a day, seven days a week. Two hours a day, six days a week, also seems like too much for the benefits to possibly outweigh all the harm that that much oxidative stress would cause. An hour a day seems like it's probably pushing the upper limit of what's safe in the long term. Whether it's too much though, I won't speculate.