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Neurgenesis - advice / strategy?

neurogenesis dopamine

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#1 chrisp2

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 03:20 AM


In summary, I think the monotony of life, especially as a single man has allowed neural degeneration to occur.

I go to work - in front of a computer where I have a constant flow of information in the form of email that is coming in that requires my attention... (information = dopamine release?)  After work, come home, and with no woman in my life, well there are pretty girls online.  :)

While I do not use FB, I might spend an hour or more going to miscellaneous news websites, Longecity, etc...  Several times over the course of the evening - breaks between TV.

I'm a high functioning employee.  My (relatively) significant success coming from my verbal and written communication skills, which are quite strong.

I am not "slow" but sometimes have difficulty keeping attention to complex problems.  I very much want to see them written where I can analyze visually as opposed to listening to them.  I do not have a great memory, including working memory, but training that a little with n-back.

While I may very well suffer from dopamine desensitization (EQ problems), I think even with sexual abstinence the problem does not self-correct.  So either the issue is broader with the overall reward pathways being excited by all this information (email at work, web data at night, etc...)  Or I have neural degeneration caused by not having a lot of stimulation in my life.

I also am not highly motivated - very successful at work because the intensity keeps me moving to address my work tasks.  But taking care of my house (lawn, painting, etc...) suffers.

I go to work, even though I interact with a lot of people,I probably get tons of dopamine when I address issues coming in via email.  Then I go home and in 3-4 hours max, get some more dopamine there...  But no neurogenesis happening from stimulating conversations with a spouse, etc...

Rinse.  Wash.  Repeat.  For years.

I started doing cardio, daily, 30 minutes, 13 degree incline, 3.3-3.8mph approximately.  Pretty intense.

Taking a number of supplements.  In my "brain stack" alone...  Lion's mane, cinnamon, Bacopa, Ashwagandha, Turmeric, Pantethine, Lithium Orotate, Vinpocetine, PS, Alpha GPC AND CDP Choline.  (In addition to EPD/DHA in my normal supplements).  I was on uridine as well, but need to source more.

It is a paradox in that at work, I'm very effective because of my interpersonal skills.  But after work I have not so much going on there.  That's something I need to work on.

Now that I have shared my story, I was hoping I could get advice on neurogeneration.  The above stack was my first attempt, but I think it is appropriate to look beyond to nootropics.

I was thinking of Piracetam as it is well studied, and very safe.

But I was also thinking of Semax...  I have no issues with subcutaneous injections, not looking forward to daily, but if it would help grow grey matter.  I'd just about do anything.  (I wouldn't do something like Cerebrolysin though - Semax is at least being prescribed in two countries and has been around for 32 years, although approved only for 3)

I'd even consider purchasing brain-trainer.com equipment if it would help.  (Although I clearly have a lot of research to do before spending that much money)

Sorry for the long email, appreciate any commentary on the above or any other very safe nootropics I might want to consider for my situation.



#2 Astroid

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 08:10 PM

Sounds like boredom is the issue to me.  Try joining a couple of dating websites.. POF.com is free.. Just engage with females via internet and phone.. to stimulate yourself and build confidence.. 

 

Search and read about "SEX TRANSMUTATION".  

 

http://www.sacred-te...h/tgr/tgr16.htm

 

http://www.wilywalnu.../sexgenius.html

 

http://brightmiracle...n-us-to-create/

 

Go outside and mingle with strangers and practice joking or striking up conversations with the ladies. Try some exciting events.. take up heavy weightlifting (it stimulates the harmones), sky diving, scuba, travel the back roads to small cities to visit, visit some parks.. etc.. break your routine.

 

As for supplements I'd recommend Methyl B-12, Folate, Biotin, Iodine, and especially Magnesium Bicarbonate Water.. all good for your brain.  

 

Focus on helping others more, and yourself less. Get involved with them.. and have fun. You are missing the fun in life.  



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#3 chrisp2

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 09:08 PM

Astroid...

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply.  I'm NOT being defensive at all here, just have to point out the paradox.

 

In that I'm not someone who is afraid to engage with people, in fact I'm an expert.  (Although approaching a woman cold is still not easy nor fun, but once I'm talking with someone, I'm very skilled)

 

Regardless I think your assessment agrees with my self-assessment, and it is something I am going to work on.  However part of the dating thing that has slowed me down is what I now feel is cognitive related ED.

 

I already have everything you mentioned in my normal supplement stack - except the mag bicarbonate.  I do take Source Natural's Ultra Mag which I think has six different types of magnesium.  (And I have been on this stack for a while, years...  Only recently added the brain boosting stack I mentioned in some detail)

 

Anyway - I am looking for additional nootropic advice...  Or any other strategies that would "supplement" the outside-working-hours engagement that I'll need to ramp up.

 

Again, many thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

I'm hoping to find



#4 Gerrans

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 09:52 PM

I think for neurogeneration one needs to push the brain a bit. I am learning another language, and I follow Twitter in five languages, so that it never becomes an autopilot exercise. I do about twenty minutes arithmetic exercise every evening as well, after a short boxing workout.

 

I have always been mentally active, but I believe the above activities are specifically likely to open up new neuronal paths, because they involve immediate, demanding learning. I can feel the difference: my arithmetic is faster, my foreign languages are taking off again for the first time since I was young, and I believe I am thinking more creatively in other ways.

 

I do experiment with a few supplements, and I believe bacopa and rhodiola help. But I do not think we can grow new neuronal pathways except by conscious efforts at learning things beyond our comfort zone.


Edited by Gerrans, 23 December 2014 - 09:53 PM.

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#5 chrisp2

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 10:26 PM

It's interesting you mention boxing.

 

I'm planning to get some equipment to add that to my regimen.

 

Maybe do 30 minutes before work on my treadmill, and 20-30 minutes of intense boxing on a heavy bag or something in the evening.

 

I'm trying to take my brain supplements 20-40 mins before I start my cardio, for optimal delivery.



#6 Flex

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 01:48 AM

This could be due Glucocorticoids or other inflammatory messenger ( il-1ß, il-6, nf-kb, inteferon & etc.)

So stress and/or inflammation signaling.

I´m not saying that it is, just "could".

 

Try: chinese foxglove / rehmannia glutinosa

( thinns the blood, be carefull/get informed about possible interactions)


Gotu Kola extract

Polygala tenuifolia

because piracetam can increase oxidative stress in higher doses.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21448596

 

The herbs are advatageus because of multiple effects e.g. Polygala dampens the HPA axis which causes the stress symptoms, is antidepressant, to a certain extend good for stroke recovery, increases neurogenesis, against cancer and so on.

Or just type the main compound of Rhemannia Glutinosa ( catalpol ) in ncbi

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed


Try to keep up the social contact.

I´ve read somewhere that aged people with social contacts had a better cognitive outcome as those who hadnt muxh social contacts.

So everything what activates Your brain or so to say trains it, is good.


Edited by Flex, 24 December 2014 - 02:00 AM.


#7 macropsia

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 04:05 AM

I've been enjoying p21 quite a bit... It seems like a long slow build of effect more than a sharp increase. lllt (I.e. TULIP as per lostfalco's thread) has been quite helpful.
A bit left-field for some, but I find psilocybin mushrooms quite useful for getting oneself out of mental ruts and realigning one's consciousness with a deeper feeling of 'purpose'. I find it interesting that the field which we consider to be the nootropic endeavor has so broadened as to include issues of self-worth and satisfaction, in your case reified as 'dopamine' modulation. Though not nootropic per se, I think thiandngs like mushrooms help address such broader concerns that end up having a large effect on cognition downstream.

And though I've bitched considerably elsewhere about their business model, I think neuroptimal is a really great entry point to the fascinating possibilities of neurofeedback. I wouldn't buy their overpriced system, but if you can find a trainer or someone renting in your area, it is a neat introduction to the sorts of things NFB can do before you think about buyinv equipment.

#8 oppenheimer82

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 04:58 AM

I've been enjoying p21 quite a bit... It seems like a long slow build of effect more than a sharp increase. lllt (I.e. TULIP as per lostfalco's thread) has been quite helpful.
A bit left-field for some, but I find psilocybin mushrooms quite useful for getting oneself out of mental ruts and realigning one's consciousness with a deeper feeling of 'purpose'. I find it interesting that the field which we consider to be the nootropic endeavor has so broadened as to include issues of self-worth and satisfaction, in your case reified as 'dopamine' modulation. Though not nootropic per se, I think thiandngs like mushrooms help address such broader concerns that end up having a large effect on cognition downstream.

And though I've bitched considerably elsewhere about their business model, I think neuroptimal is a really great entry point to the fascinating possibilities of neurofeedback. I wouldn't buy their overpriced system, but if you can find a trainer or someone renting in your area, it is a neat introduction to the sorts of things NFB can do before you think about buyinv equipment.

what more can you tell about your results with p21? better working memory? faster thinking? etc etc



#9 macropsia

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 05:07 AM

I think my digit span is improving somewhat. Though that may have something to do with epicatechin. I feel generally clearer. The rest of the effects are a bit intangible, but positive.

#10 macropsia

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 05:10 AM

By the way, I might try giving the epa and lithium a break, experimentally. Myself and others have reported subtle dulling therewith.

#11 kurdishfella

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 09:17 AM

Most humans are in autopilot like half of the time, the goal should be to be in as little autopilot as possible which increases neurogenesis. For example, when you do automatic functions that you do everyday and dont think much of it, like flushing the toilet, more autopilot means less likely to form memory, so after I use the bathroom I many times question myself if I flushed the toilet because I was in a automatic mode and dont remember if i did it. So what you have to do is think about every little thing you do. Its impossible to be outside of autopilot 100% of the time but goal should be to be as much outside of it possible. And even when you think your out of it, are you really? how much control can you possibly have?


Edited by kurdishfella, 27 February 2021 - 09:19 AM.

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#12 protoject

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 02:12 AM

D-cycloserine, an NMDA partial agonist,  is something I'm using to target the problem. [I think it might be glycine partial agonist as well? can't remember].
I notice a big difference. Only used it for just over a week or so. Figuring out dosing for personal best. 
It's like it helps me slowly unlearn or learn things.  In both a slow way and an immediate way.
It also has the ability to calm me down, like i'd get really sedated around bed, but that effect went away after a couple days. 
I believe my first interest in it was when I saw studies of it being used to consolidate or continue some effects from ketamine treatment. 

 



#13 Believer

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 04:42 AM

D-cycloserine, an NMDA partial agonist,  is something I'm using to target the problem.

I'd be interested in trying it if you got a link where to obtain it

I've tried large dosages of glycine, sarcosine and other NMDA agonists/partial agonists.

Sarcosine I really like but it loses effect quickly.

Also interested in trying serine.



#14 protoject

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 02:42 AM

I'd be interested in trying it if you got a link where to obtain it

I've tried large dosages of glycine, sarcosine and other NMDA agonists/partial agonists.

Sarcosine I really like but it loses effect quickly.

Also interested in trying serine.

Just for reference for ya, I also started off with glycine, sarcosine, l-serine, d-serine, stuff like that, back in like 2011-2012, and was really disappointed. I find the d-cycloserine is definitely in a different ballpark than those. I had this personal theory that maybe the d-cycloserine could do something like what ketamine does , not in a dissociative way but like the rebound glutamatergic effect that I think ketamine has, because basically it is pushing in the opposite direction of ketamine, except since it's a partial agonist it doesn't quite become excitotoxic, it's like an inbetweener just kinda pushing the edge.

 

I felt pretty weird effects in high doses that might be considered excitoxic. But those doses are like 500-1000 mg. And I am not sure if they were excitotoxic but basically I would get this same effect of like when I'm on too much G [sodium oxybate] or coming off G and you get like, "hand zaps" where you're holding something and then suddenly your hand just gets a shock and you drop it.

I find this highly unlikely at lower doses which I also tried. 

 

It also seems like I had some sort of sedative type of effect as if I was on G [sodium oxybate] as well at HIGH doses. Like, it making me want to sleep, feeling sleepy in a HEALTHY but some what INVASIVE [badly timed if not expecting it] way which is extremely unusual for me.  But I don't know if that kept happening. I did lower the dose though so that could be why.

Anyway I'm about to try it again, I have to order more. It's available on the internet. Honestly right now I feel like my supplement game is on track and like never before. I feel like most of my supplementing and self medicating days were abject failure, except for a few important successes, but I'm starting to think all that failure was worth it, and the fact that I kept track of d-cycloserine says a bunch. 

I don't want to blow it out of proportion, so again I'll be ordering again, running more experiments on myself. 

The d-cycloserine is truly interesting. I almost get a psychedelic-like therepeutic effect from it, except I'm not tripping out or anything. It's more like I can dive deeper into conscious thoughts and it resonates with other people so I can un-learn or re-learn or learn new things. It's weird and I didn't expect that exact feeling that I get on it. 

I think there might be tolerance to the higher doses which is reflected in the paper studies too. 

I should mention one major difference between 2011-2012 and now is that I've been mostly effectively medicated for sleep for a few years now. All the regular amino acids mentioned  that don't feel in the same ballpark as the d-cycloserine, I feel like they all messed with and or didn't help my sleep or mental health in any way shape or form whether it was high or low dose. 

Also this is my personal stack right now for personal reasons.

Noopept [which I didn't like before, got it from the same company].
d-cycloserine
mk-677  [for my appetite but it's having a bunch of benefits]

vitamin d
vitamin a [plant]
sometimes high dose NAC but on and off. currently not on.

[trying to quit both of these, but not hardcore. both low dose]
yerba mate
kratom 

And this is my current lifestyle

chronically ill disabled at home for a year
chronically low calorie intake, now I've increased cal intake aiming at 3000 cal
dietary special needs
been doing up to 200 pushups a day for a few weeks (started at 100)

 


Edited by protoject, 04 March 2021 - 02:44 AM.


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#15 Believer

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 03:18 AM

If you find anything that improves sociability/social desire let me know. I struggle with social apathy.

Was hoping sarcosine would help but it had negligible effects

I am also struggling with glutamate induced neurodegeneration so either have to up my antioxidant intake or stay away.

 

For 6 months I did 200 push ups and 200 sit ups every single day without a day missed.

Severe OCD.







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