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Disappointing Comments on Longevity Science From Bill Gates


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#1 reason

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 12:02 AM


In a recent Reddit discussion, philanthropist Bill Gates had this to say about the present growth in research aimed at extending healthy life spans:

It seems pretty egocentric while we still have malaria and TB for rich people to fund things so they can live longer. It would be nice to live longer though I admit.

The comments were of course replicated far and wide in the echo chamber of the press: Gates has a soapbox of an enviable size, even among billionaires. The context here is the Silicon Valley network of wealth that, in quite different ways, funds both Google Venture's new California Life Company investment and the less flashy but so far much more important rejuvenation research and advocacy organized by the SENS Research Foundation. It is also worth recalling that Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen continues to pour a large amount of wealth into cutting edge biotechnology research. The philanthropy of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation by comparison is focused on improving the lot of the poor directly, as a matter of delivering and implementing existing technological capabilities rather than building completely new things. Though of course they do fund malaria and other infectious disease research in a big way, which is definitely cutting edge biotechnology.

Both advancing the cutting edge and delivering existing capabilities to the poor are viable approaches to making the world a better place. There must be progress at the cutting edge to produce new medicine and other important technologies. Much of the early stage novel, risky, ground-breaking research only happens because it is funded by philanthropy. Large funding sources in government and business are risk averse and much more interested in supporting incremental but certain progress - yet the only reason that progress even exists in the first place is that someone was willing to put money on the very early stage work that made it possible. Similarly once a new technology is shown to be possible it is a good thing to aid deployment and continued improvements in implementation that help ease the hurdles to bring the results to less fortunate regions of the world. That part of the development process has many of the same problems as early stage research: a lot of people willing to fund a sure thing, and far too few willing to sink money into solutions for what look like roadblocks and dead ends. The sure things never do much; it is the radical new approaches that enable real progress.

Everyone gets to chose where they put their money and how they think about the world. It is nonetheless always disappointing to see influential people completely misunderstand the point of longevity science. Comments like those made by Gates could just as well have been applied to heart disease fifty years ago. Why are all those rich people funding heart treatments and better drugs for an age-related condition? Isn't that just selfish? Yet the distinct character of our era is that access to technology is comparatively flat: the progression of availability from expensive and inaccessible to accessible to the vast majority of people occurs very rapidly. Look at the spread of mobile phones and internet access over the past two decades as an example of what happens in a market where governments interfere far less than is done in medicine. Even in medicine, many of the medical technologies funded by rich people in past decades, and initially only available to the wealthy and connected in their earliest forms, are now available in places that include rural India and reaches of Africa. Such as those drugs for heart conditions.

Improving medicine is not about making things happen for the wealthy. It is about whether we all win together or we all lose together. Mocking or shunning improvements aimed at preventing the suffering and frailty of aging because some wealthy person might get the treatments first is lunacy: all technologies are available to the wealthy first and far in advance of the rest of us. That is what being wealthy gets you, pretty much by definition, and if it serves as an incentive to get them involved then all the better. They fund the first wave, and the rest of us obtain access in the later stages of development, when the new technology moves beyond prototypes and first generation implementations to become better, cheaper, and more robust.

Here is another way of looking at this: what causes the greatest harm to poor people? It isn't malaria. It is aging, and by a long, long way. Malaria killed in the vicinity of 650,000 people in 2012. In that same year somewhere north of 40 million people aged to death. More than three quarters of the world's population are exceptionally poor compared to the people we call poor in the US: so perhaps 30 million or more of those deaths fall into that demographic, fifty times as many as caused by malaria. I think it fair to say that degenerative aging places a far worse burden upon those individuals than on you and I. It is terrible for all of us, and kills all of us if we're lucky enough to evade the rest of the life's slings and arrows, but there's a big difference between being old and frail in agrarian poverty versus a first world city. If you are a rational, compassionate, utilitarian individual - and few are, sadly - then it should be clear that the best thing that can be done with limited resources is to work as rapidly as possible to produce effective treatments for aging that prevent and reverse age-related disease. Just getting a first generation of these treatments into the development pipeline at all, and not even taking any further steps beyond that to help speed things along, guarantees that the poor of the near future will have far better lives as a result. We would hope to do more than just that of course.

The greatest positive change we can create in the world is to eliminate the pain and suffering of aging through medical science. The outcome in terms of future lives saved and lives improved is so large in comparison to the treatment of any specific disease, even endemic diseases such as malaria, that it compels attention. That said, overall medical research funding is tiny in comparison to the wealth that flows through the entertainment industry, that goes towards killing people in ever more inventive ways, that is used to make candy, that changes the color of a US president's vest from red to blue, and so on. We like our wars and our circuses, and the scraps left over after that is done are all that goes towards making the world better by building new medical technologies. There is more than enough funding out there to cure every disease, to grow the life science research community by a factor of a hundred, and achieve countless other important goals besides. People just choose to spend it on other things, all ultimately pointless, forgotten, and irrelevant in the long term. The only thing that really matters is progress in technology, and especially in medicine, but persuading the world of that fact is still a hard sell.


View the full article at FightAging
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#2 Sanhar

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 02:29 AM

Hi Reason.  Love your blog, btw.  Given that we're at a turning point in the fight against aging (with it now starting to be taken seriously and a real direction emerging) I feel the best thing we can do is show viewpoints other than Bill's such as your own and others to more people.  I feel we need our own "Bill Gates" type people that others will listen to.  After all we can't stop him from saying what he does, we just need to provide our own viewpoints and show to people why they're the better way of looking at things.

 

I believe we are so developing these iconic individuals and that they will be listened to by more people.  In the meantime it's all we can do to help things move along faster by persuading people at all levels of society in as many ways as we can.


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#3 niner

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 04:39 AM

 After all we can't stop him from saying what he does

 

We couldn't stop him from releasing Windows ME, either.


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#4 Sanhar

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 10:19 AM

 

 After all we can't stop him from saying what he does

 

We couldn't stop him from releasing Windows ME, either.

 

 

... or Vista... or Windows 8...

 

... how is it that people listen to him so much again? :P
 



#5 corb

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 03:40 PM

 

It seems pretty egocentric while we still have malaria and TB for rich people to fund things so they can live longer. It would be nice to live longer though I admit.

 

It seems pretty egocentric to attack other people's charity as well. Didn't stop Gates from doing it.

You have to wonder what kind of a pathological corporate shark you have to be, to have the urge to always be an aggressor even when you're supposedly doing something out of philanthropy.

Kinda makes you feel sad for him in a way, the man will never understand true charity. In the end it's just another power trip.

 

Gates has been giving a lot of strange interviews lately, it's probably a late midlife crisis.



#6 nowayout

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 07:43 PM

While I admire Bill Gates's philanthropy, he forgets that poor people also want to live longer.  It is a little egocentric and possibly a little racist of him to presume that only rich (white Western) people would want to.   And his apparent assumption that life extension would only be available to the rich is at the very least classist. 


Edited by nowayout, 11 February 2015 - 07:48 PM.

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#7 Brett Black

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:31 AM

Bill still said it would be nice to live longer, and in a prior Reddit discussion, 2 years ago, he had this to say:
 

Question: Anything left on your bucket list?

Bill Gates: Don't die...

http://www.reddit.co...a_gates/c8dbl44


Edited by Brett Black, 13 February 2015 - 03:34 AM.


#8 ben951

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 10:20 AM

While I admire Bill Gates's philanthropy, he forgets that poor people also want to live longer.  It is a little egocentric and possibly a little racist of him to presume that only rich (white Western) people would want to.   And his apparent assumption that life extension would only be available to the rich is at the very least classist. 

 

You're missing the point, for poor people to live longer, they have to have access to malaria and tuberculosis treatment witch is not the case.

 

http://www.who.int/f...es/malaria/en/#

 

 

People living in the poorest countries are the most vulnerable to malaria. In 2013, 90% of all malaria deaths occurred in the WHO African Region, mostly among children under 5 years of age.

 

And it's a shameful fact that in the world we live right now, a basic ultra cheap malaria treatment that could save 40 children for 20$ a month is not available to them.

 

I'm pretty sure that the one who make it to LEV and become semi-gods will have to answer to that at some point.

 

 

 


Edited by ben951, 13 February 2015 - 10:59 AM.


#9 nowayout

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:25 PM

 

While I admire Bill Gates's philanthropy, he forgets that poor people also want to live longer.  It is a little egocentric and possibly a little racist of him to presume that only rich (white Western) people would want to.   And his apparent assumption that life extension would only be available to the rich is at the very least classist. 

 

You're missing the point, for poor people to live longer, they have to have access to malaria and tuberculosis treatment witch is not the case.

 

http://www.who.int/f...es/malaria/en/#

 

 

 

Yes, but poor people also suffer age-related diseases, and they suffer from them even worse than the rich.  So research on delaying senescence, assuming they are made available, will potentially help poor people as much or more than the rich.  It is kind of racist to presume that all those poor Africans shouldn't expect to have higher aspirations than surviving infectious diseases.  Maybe you and Bill Gates should go ask them what they want instead of assuming the "White Man's Burden" of deciding what is good for them.


Edited by nowayout, 13 February 2015 - 02:25 PM.


#10 corb

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:23 PM

You're missing the point, for poor people to live longer, they have to have access to malaria and tuberculosis treatment witch is not the case.

 

 

Actually that is not the case.

Lots of organizations have been throwing shiploads (literally) of drugs at Africa and Asia for years.
The result? Malaria has now mutated to be resistant to most of them.

No one will advertise it, but if Malaria was capable of spreading like Ebola we would be in deep #### right now.



#11 Sanhar

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:03 PM

 

You're missing the point, for poor people to live longer, they have to have access to malaria and tuberculosis treatment witch is not the case.

 

 

Actually that is not the case.

Lots of organizations have been throwing shiploads (literally) of drugs at Africa and Asia for years.
The result? Malaria has now mutated to be resistant to most of them.

No one will advertise it, but if Malaria was capable of spreading like Ebola we would be in deep #### right now.

 

 

Uh oh.  Looks like we need a molecular nanotechnological approach!  How else to deal with drug resistance?  Well, maybe a genetic therapy approach to make people malaria resistant would help somewhat... hmmmm...


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#12 Janusz Czoch

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 02:59 AM

 

It seems pretty egocentric while we still have malaria and TB for rich people to fund things so they can live longer. It would be nice to live longer though I admit.

 

 

This actually tells us a lot. Yes -he does want to live longer -or at least he days he does. So far so good. He has also evolved to the state he is aware of an emergent drive amongst some other rich people to want to spend against ageing. The problem comes judging from the tone, he belives or at the very least doe s not question the assumption ageing can be fixed. Therefore Gates regards trying to fight ageing as futile and holdsholds it up as disgraceful vanity.

 

Let's not forget were this a guy-thing we'd prob. be OK. However there is the reach of Ms. Gates.


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#13 Sanhar

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 03:02 AM

 

 

It seems pretty egocentric while we still have malaria and TB for rich people to fund things so they can live longer. It would be nice to live longer though I admit.

 

 

This actually tells us a lot. Yes -he does want to live longer -or at least he days he does. So far so good. He has also evolved to the state he is aware of an emergent drive amongst some other rich people to want to spend against ageing. The problem comes judging from the tone, he belives or at the very least doe s not question the assumption ageing can be fixed. Therefore Gates regards trying to fight ageing as futile and holdsholds it up as disgraceful vanity.

 

Let's not forget were this a guy-thing we'd prob. be OK. However there is the reach of Ms. Gates.

 

 

Can't say what Melinda is doing here, but, Bill is going to get a wake-up call as things move forward.  Not only is it not just for the rich (even if they buy in to the earlier stuff, that's normal) but it's certainly going to work in the various ways it's shaping up.
 


 

 

You're missing the point, for poor people to live longer, they have to have access to malaria and tuberculosis treatment witch is not the case.

 

 

Actually that is not the case.

Lots of organizations have been throwing shiploads (literally) of drugs at Africa and Asia for years.
The result? Malaria has now mutated to be resistant to most of them.

No one will advertise it, but if Malaria was capable of spreading like Ebola we would be in deep #### right now.

 

 

Uh oh.  Looks like we need a molecular nanotechnological approach!  How else to deal with drug resistance?  Well, maybe a genetic therapy approach to make people malaria resistant would help somewhat... hmmmm...

 

 

No, really how *do* you deal with drug resistance other than molecular nanotechnology or changing genes to give us resistance?

p.s. I know we don't have molecular nanotechnological solutions at this time but I have long thought that it's the only long-term solution for really moving past antibody resistance.  Even genetic resistances would only buy us time as diseases would find new ways to attack us over time.


Edited by Sanhar, 14 February 2015 - 03:36 AM.


#14 ben951

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 11:10 AM

 

 

While I admire Bill Gates's philanthropy, he forgets that poor people also want to live longer.  It is a little egocentric and possibly a little racist of him to presume that only rich (white Western) people would want to.   And his apparent assumption that life extension would only be available to the rich is at the very least classist. 

 

You're missing the point, for poor people to live longer, they have to have access to malaria and tuberculosis treatment witch is not the case.

 

http://www.who.int/f...es/malaria/en/#

 

 

 

Yes, but poor people also suffer age-related diseases, and they suffer from them even worse than the rich.  So research on delaying senescence, assuming they are made available, will potentially help poor people as much or more than the rich.  It is kind of racist to presume that all those poor Africans shouldn't expect to have higher aspirations than surviving infectious diseases.  Maybe you and Bill Gates should go ask them what they want instead of assuming the "White Man's Burden" of deciding what is good for them.

 

 

How in the world can you come to the conclusion that I implied that poor african people have not higher aspirations ?

 

It's kind of racist, to even think about that from what I wrote, off course they have higher aspiration isn't it obvious to you that to reach immortality you first need to reach 5 year old ?

 

So yes I assumed that if I ask them:

 

You have the choice of dying right now from malaria at 5 but it might delay a cure for aging when you'll be 95 years old, they would not prefer do die right now.

 

Now that doesn't mean that anti-aging research should not be funded of pursed at the same time, it might even help for infectious diseases who knows.

 

 

 

Actually that is not the case.

Lots of organizations have been throwing shiploads (literally) of drugs at Africa and Asia for years.
The result? Malaria has now mutated to be resistant to most of them.

No one will advertise it, but if Malaria was capable of spreading like Ebola we would be in deep #### right now.

 

Can you provide a link or a study that prove that the majority of malaria cases are not treatable ?

 

I lived in Senegal several years ( found my actual wife and had a daughter with her) I caught malaria and I've never been even close of dying, but I had access to proper :treatment, food, water, and living conditions.

 

https://ssl.msf.hk/donate/en
 


Edited by ben951, 14 February 2015 - 11:16 AM.


#15 Mind

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 02:33 PM

According to a business friend of mine who met with the Gates foundation (seeking grant money for his medical diagnostics start-up), Bill was not pleased that his funding of several other diagnostics start-ups did not pan out, and was considering dropping the investment category altogether. Maybe he is just sore over losing a lot of money recently.

 

Otherwise, his funding to help poor people of the world, in Africa or otherwise is commendable. No doubt he will save a lot of lives, but he is attacking problems more due to the "human condition" that have persisted for as long as humans have been around, so he is unlikely to succeed (whatever his measure of success might be).

 

I would argue that his greater contribution to the world was spreading a computer operating system to make computing an everyday experience for much of the world. I know Windows is not great. I make jokes about it and rip on it all the time, but it did "help" continue technological progress, which is important.


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#16 nowayout

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 03:57 PM


Yes, but poor people also suffer age-related diseases, and they suffer from them even worse than the rich.  So research on delaying senescence, assuming they are made available, will potentially help poor people as much or more than the rich.  It is kind of racist to presume that all those poor Africans shouldn't expect to have higher aspirations than surviving infectious diseases.  Maybe you and Bill Gates should go ask them what they want instead of assuming the "White Man's Burden" of deciding what is good for them.

 

 

How in the world can you come to the conclusion that I implied that poor african people have not higher aspirations ?

I wasn't accusing you so much as Bill Gates, whose comment does come across as racist and colonialist (as in "I'll decide the priorities for those poor third world people, and life extension isn't one of them").  I know his intentions are good and the racism/colonialism is so ingrained in the Western mindset that it is unconcious, but that doesn't make it any less exasperating. 






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