8 replies to this topic

[BioInfinite]

I had Serotonin Syndrome in 2012 and I am still battling against serotonin toxicity 2 years later. I have regressed my progress to square one multiple times by trying things such as Lithium and Lamictal to stabilize my mood on different occasions. I can't even try another one because they all work with GABA which I also can't tolerate anymore.

 

Currently I'm on Seroquel 600mg/day but it isn't strong enough and does nothing for the cause. It is my only anti-psychotic option. I occasionally have to use Cyproheptadine but that destroys my working/ST memory. I take BCAAs 20g every day in 2 divided doses to block serotonin uptake to brain and gut, without which I would be in pain with Gastritis too (by 5-ht3). I am wondering if it would work more to increase the dose like they use in studies (up to 60g)?

 

My diet is also extremely limited, I go to great lengths to ingest a tryptophan/methionine deficient diet after repeated toxicity. This means no meat, fish, or dairy whatsoever. Even many vegetable proteins are out of the question. All of it has instant effects depending on the buffer - severe agitation. I even have to avoid certain vegetables/fruits because of the Quercetin content (MAOI).

 

So what I really need is some guidance and knowledge about how to deplete Serotonin effectively.

 

For example, I suspect ratios matter just as much as levels of amino acids but am not sure how to work out the proportions or how they work together.

 

I want to try Fenclonine - para-chlorophenylalanine (pCPA) to inhibit tryptophan hydroxylase, but it also inhibits phenylalanine hydroxylase. Would this significantly increase my dopamine levels / CNS stimulation? I found something that appears to say dopaminergic neurons are increased after pCPA. I also found one that indicates that the depletion of brain 5-HT by PCPA produces a decrease in the activity of midbrain DA cells.

 

Considering my dopamine is upregulated by my anti-psychotic medicine and I get very stressed when I don't take it, (presumably because of too much dopamine), if my brain grows more dopamine neurons will that increase the stress or be healing? Likewise, if my brain grows new serotonergic neurons, is that considered healing or would that increase my propensity for serotonin toxicity?

 

I'm also wondering if D-Phenylalanine would be a good idea to increase enkephalin/endorphin, if it would improve the dopamine to serotonin balance? 

 

Any suggestions or insights would be most appreciated 

 

Thanks

 

[Galaxyshock]

Tianeptine is a selective serotonin re-uptake enhancer.

Shilajit decreases serotonin levels.

Perhaps melatonin could also help, as a night-time hormone it kinda overruns serotonin.

Apigenin from Chamomile decreases all monoamines, including serotonin, by activating monoamine transporter.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 12 February 2015 - 06:52 PM.

[BioInfinite]

Tianeptine is a selective serotonin re-uptake enhancer.

Shilajit decreases serotonin levels.

Perhaps melatonin could also help, as a night-time hormone it kinda overruns serotonin.

Apigenin from Chamomile decreases all monoamines, including serotonin, by activating monoamine transporter.

 

Thanks for your reply Galaxyshock.

 

I am not sure about Tianeptine, on wikipedia it says it has 'weak affinity for the monoamine transporters' as well as saying it decreases extracellular serotonin. When I tried lamictal, that one said on the wiki "Inhibitory effects on 5-HT, norepinephrine, and dopamine transporters are weak", and that proved disastrous. Can we be 100% sure it will not inhibit the serotonin transporter in any way? Some of the effects sound a little bit like serotonin to me. And what does "it has been shown that fluoxetine can be partially substituted for tianeptine in animal studies" mean in regards to reuptake?

 

Unfortunately shilajit and apigenin works with GABA which I can't tolerate, and melatonin sensitizes the 5-HT1A receptor (tried recently), but thanks for the suggestions.

[UKLAD]

is Tianeptine ok to take long term, i get on great with it (have to watch i dont overdose on it), as i am well aware of dependency of chemicals?  i try not to take it for more than 3/4 days in a row, am i being too careful?

[Galaxyshock]

Hmm I remember Neem leaf (Azadirachta indica) might be antiserotonergic,

 

The present study showed that neem extract could attenuate anxiogenic and appetite suppressant effects of
stress by decreasing brain 5-HT and 5-HIAA concentartion.

→ source (external link)

 

A few other search results also hinted anti-serotonin activity but I couldn't access the articles. 

 

Neem also has a broad range of other effects, kind of a purported cure-all. Maybe try and see if gives you relief? I've always found it pleasant herb.

[Galaxyshock]

Ashwagandha seems to block the effect of MAOIs: http://examine.com/s...andha/#summary5

edit: forgot you can't take gabaergics

Edited by Galaxyshock, 19 February 2015 - 05:55 PM.

[sativa]

Any suggestions or insights would be most appreciated

Thanks

Lemon essential oil is a 5-HT3 antagonist and 5-HT1A agonist - 5-HT1A has an inhibitory effect on the amount of serotonin in the synapse. I'm not exactly sure by what mechanism it does this, yet. It has the opposite effect of 5-HT2A.
http://cercor.oxford...ontent/14/3/281

What about NMDA antagonsism - would this help to attenuate some of the aspects of serotonin syndrome?

Granted that constant NMDA antagonsism might lead to a "spaced out" feeling...

[Area-1255]

we should run a fenclonine group buy - it has many other legitimate applications; e.g gut disorders, hyposexuality, brain health/cognition, motivation etc..and , it would make a MEAN pre-workout aggression substance.