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Serotonin Syndrome from just 50mg of 5-HTP - Need low tryptophan diet list

serotonin tryptophan syndrome

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#1 iseethelight

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 05:49 PM


I've had serotonin syndrome attacks 3 days in a row by ingesting just 50mg of 5htp. I mean I felt sick as a dog for a good 24 hours, after ingestion. I wanted to make sure it wasn't a coincidence so I stopped all other supplements and just took 50 mg of 5htp, and within 30-60 minutes I was laid up in bed sick as fck. I'm currently experiencing multiple symptoms as I type this from my 5htp dose last night. I've binned the bottle this morning.

 

I've always thought that my cognitive and health issues (poor memory and concentration,chronic  fatique, anxiety, depression, nausea)  were due to an acetylcholine sensitivity but now I think it's due to an overproduction of serotonin causing excessive serotonin to accumulate in my gut and brain. 

 

In hindsight, whenever I'd eat foods high in tryptophan like bananas, egg whites, oats, etc, I'd spend most of the day tired and lethargic. I only felt energized at night after said foods had been digested and out of my system. 

 

I need to redesign my diet around foods low in tryptophan, I'm having a hard time putting together a decent list and the results on google are mostly about increasing serotonin not decreasing it. The lists I've found are inaccurate with wrong info.

 

I'm also going to start Shilajit today. Any other herbs, supps that can lower serotonin without adverse side effects ?


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#2 Area-1255

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 01:25 AM

YOU ARE SPOT ON MY FRIEND; Yes, excess serotonin causes gut issues; including diarrhea and trouble controlling bowel movement as well as nausea etc - it also causes you to over-react to sudden sounds and movements; including in agitation - also high levels of serotonin disrupt cognitive function - leading to deficits in emotional processing and intellectual function...in a lot of ways , excess serotonin mirrors frontal lobe deficits. 

 

Symptoms / Signs of Too Much Serotonin / Excess Serotonin {SPECIFICS, EASY TO READ, CITED}

 

 

 

4 Natural OTC Serotonin Antagonists

 

 

5-HT3 Antagonists that are natural would be Ginger Root extract ; this may, in theory, help in reducing the nausea you experience with serotonin syndrome..however, 'TRUE' serotonin syndrome can be a life-threatening crisis which includes fast heart rate and hyperthermia/hypothermia, sweating, or lack of, high blood pressure and delirium as well as agitation and panic (mainly an over-jumpiness to sounds and lights)...

 

So the idea here is to keep some Cyproheptadine on hand..but in general, feverfew and Shilajit seem best to decrease serotonin...another idea is to consistently use Yohimbine , if you can handle it, along with Shilajit...yohimbine activates serotonin autoreceptors leading to decreased serotonin...so assuming your receptors are not desensitized - yohimbine and shilajit should be enough for you.  :)

 

Start with Shilajit 3 times a day.

Keep Ginger on hand or get the doc to write you a script for Ondansetron (Zofran) this helps stop nausea/vomiting and anxiety and helps with some of the psychological effects of excess serotonin... it's a safe med with basically no side-effects or liver toxicity and can be dosed daily to reduce anxiety..which supports the role of serotonin provoking anxiety and behavioral changes when it activates the type 3A, 2A and 4A subtypes.

 

ALSO - Add HIGH-DOSE L-LYSINE; it acts as a 5-HT4 antagonist which can help...so lysine , ginger and Shilajit should be perfect along with yohimbine at moderate doses.

 

 

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 Dec 23;100(26):15370-5. Epub 2003 Dec 15.

L-Lysine acts like a partial serotonin receptor 4 antagonist and inhibits serotonin-mediated intestinal pathologies and anxiety in rats.
Abstract

The purpose of this investigation was to determine whether a nutritionally essential amino acid, l-lysine, acts like a serotonin receptor 4 (5-HT4) antagonist, and if l-lysine is beneficial in animal models of serotonin (5-HT)-induced anxiety, diarrhea, ileum contractions, and tachycardia and in stress-induced fecal excretion. The radioligand-binding assay was used to test the binding of l-lysine to various 5-HT receptors. The effects of l-lysine on 5-HT-induced contractions of isolated guinea pig ileum were studied in vitro. The effects of oral administration of l-lysine on diarrhea, stress-induced fecal excretion, and 5-HT-induced corticosterone release, tachycardia, and anxiety (an elevated plus maze paradigm) were studied in rats in vivo. l-Lysine (0.8 mmol/dl) inhibited (9.17%) binding of 5-HT to the 5-HT4 receptor, without any effect on 5-HT1A,2A,2B,2C,3 binding. l-Lysine (0.07 and 0.7 mmol/dl) blocked 5-HT-induced contractions of an isolated guinea pig ileum in vitro (P < 0.05 and P < 0.01). Orally applied l-lysine (1 g/kg of body weight) inhibited (P < 0.12) diarrhea triggered by coadministration of restraint stress and 5-hydroxytryptophane (10 mg/kg of body weight), and significantly blocked anxiety induced by the 5-HT4 receptor agonist (3.0 mmol/liter) in rats in vivo. No effects of l-lysine or the 5-HT4 receptor agonist on plasma corticosterone and heart rate were recorded. l-Lysine may be a partial 5-HT4 receptor antagonist and suppresses 5-HT4 receptor-mediated intestinal pathologies and anxiety in rats. An increase in nutritional load of l-lysine might be a useful tool in treating stress-induced anxiety and 5-HT-related diarrhea-type intestinal dysfunctions.


Edited by Area-1255, 24 September 2015 - 01:32 AM.


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#3 Area-1255

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 01:34 AM

also L-Histidine may help. histamine H2R's regulate excessive serotonin neuron firing.

 

 

J Neurochem. 2008 Nov;107(3):745-55. doi: 10.1111/j.1471-4159.2008.05646.x. Epub 2008 Aug 30.

Constitutive histamine H2 receptor activity regulates serotonin release in the substantia nigra.
Abstract

The substantia nigra pars reticulata (SNr) forms a principal output from the basal ganglia. It also receives significant histamine (HA) input from the tuberomammillary nucleus whose functions in SNr remain poorly understood. One identified role is the regulation of serotonin (5-HT) neurotransmission via the HA-H(3) receptor. Here we have explored regulation by another HA receptor expressed in SNr, the H(2)-receptor (H(2)R), by monitoring electrically evoked 5-HT release with fast-scan cyclic voltammetry at carbon-fiber microelectrodes in SNr in rat brain slices. Selective H(2)R antagonists (inverse agonists) ranitidine and tiotidine enhanced 5-HT release while the agonist amthamine suppressed release. The 'neutral' competitive antagonist burimamide alone was without effect but prevented ranitidine actions indicating that inverse agonist effects result from constitutive H(2)R activity independent of HA tone. H(2)R control of 5-HT release was most apparent (from inverse agonist effects) at lower frequencies of depolarization (< or = 20 Hz), and prevailed in the presence of antagonists of GABA, glutamate or H(3)-HA receptors. These data reveal that H(2)Rs in SNr are constitutively active and inhibit 5-HT release through H(2)Rs on 5-HT axons. These data may have therapeutic implications for Parkinson's disease, when SNr HA levels increase, and for neuropsychiatric disorders in which 5-HT is pivotal.

PMID:   18761715   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 


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#4 iseethelight

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 12:32 AM

Hey Area, thanks for the info.  

 

So for the past few days, I lowered my serotonin levels using shilajit, ginger and a low tryptophan diet. While I wasn't nauseous anymore, I felt way off mentally and physically. I now understand that my symptoms from the 5htp was not serotonin syndrome but just a common side effects for certain people whose stomach can't handle how fast 5htp releases serotonin in the gut and bloodstream. The nausea and dizziness was a result of that.

 

I keep making quick diagnosis and blaming certain neurotransmitters for my issues but truth be told, I have no idea which ones are messed up. I suffer from high histamine so maybe this is part of the issue with the histamine receptors inhibitting other neurotransmitters. But I won't make any more threads until I figure out the real issue because I keep making false self diagnosis.

 

So while excess serotonin can definitely be an issue for some people, it's not in my case. As a matter of fact, I may have too little of it but again not sure. I've stopped the shilajit and back on my regular diet and feeling better. 

 

 


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#5 Area-1255

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 01:50 AM

Hey Area, thanks for the info.  

 

So for the past few days, I lowered my serotonin levels using shilajit, ginger and a low tryptophan diet. While I wasn't nauseous anymore, I felt way off mentally and physically. I now understand that my symptoms from the 5htp was not serotonin syndrome but just a common side effects for certain people whose stomach can't handle how fast 5htp releases serotonin in the gut and bloodstream. The nausea and dizziness was a result of that.

 

I keep making quick diagnosis and blaming certain neurotransmitters for my issues but truth be told, I have no idea which ones are messed up. I suffer from high histamine so maybe this is part of the issue with the histamine receptors inhibitting other neurotransmitters. But I won't make any more threads until I figure out the real issue because I keep making false self diagnosis.

 

So while excess serotonin can definitely be an issue for some people, it's not in my case. As a matter of fact, I may have too little of it but again not sure. I've stopped the shilajit and back on my regular diet and feeling better. 

If you had low serotonin you would be very constipated (most likely) - coupled with high histamine and you would likely be a 'workaholic' but one whom also goes through periods of 'black depression'....in which case you would be more like me in some ways.... you should see what I do on my personal time (lol jk)... but the point is generally, high histamine and low serotonin feels really good in a way - very optimistic but also you will have these little windows of time where you feel like you want to question everything and you will feel somewhat in despair - I no longer experience this anymore I think due to biochemical changes and a better diet. But when my histamine Was REALLY high - my heart beat would be strong in my pillow at night  - also I would get INSANE pumps in the gym...like ridiculous - I still do to an extent..but that's the main dilemma there..only thing is that high histamine you have to watch your cortisol level - that's where the issues start..high histamine is not bad - but you have to counter the cortisol from it...

Low serotonin is not bad in itself - but some people; depending on hormonal factors are susceptible to these effects more so...so get estrogen checked and testosterone and such as well...

 

CONSIDER adding neurosteroids DHEA and Pregnenolone as well as Ashwagandha extracts and Super Rhodiola from Ceretropic..!







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