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The western world and islam, do you worry about it?


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33 replies to this topic

#31 Keizo

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 11:16 AM


"Why do we not see muslims in Europe marching on the streets protesting against IS and standing up against terrorism?" I'm sure there are a few, but the answer I imagine most important: People are tribal.




here is a much simpler explaination : for the same reason you didn't march in the streets to protest against Anders Breivik killing 110 teens in Norway in 2011  in the name of Christ and the "preservation of the purity of the white race". You thought the idea that you should be associated with him by the mere fact that you're christian like him ( or white) is outlandish. He is not you and doesn't represent you or most christians.


Or for the same reason you didn't walk in the streets to protest against some Vatican pedophile priests raping children. The fact that they were christians and priests doesn't mean that all christians ( or priests) are de-facto pedophiles . Christians don't feel the need to publicly claim they're not pedophiles everytime a new pedophile priest story is revealed in the news, right ? And there is no reason you should. 


Well, it's the same with muslims. The majority of them feel that asking why they didn't "march in the streets" or publicly proclaim they are not terrorists as completely outlandish and deeply insulting. They don't feel they should publicly dissociate with terrorists or Daesh, for the simple reason that they don't feel associated with them in the first place !


I'm sure that has some truth to it. And indeed many religious people, including Mohammedans, should read more of their own religious texts.

I'm not going to claim "Most muslims aren't real muslim", but rather like many other religious people there is always hordes who aren't very devout. 


If someone is claiming to be of your persuasion in some fundamental sense, I think there is very strong reason to try and disavow those people. Especially when what they are doing is condoned in the religious texts you yourself supposedly hold dear. I didn't protest Breivik because I don't have a book that says "it is good to shoot certain people" and certainly at the time I didn't believe in much anything he believed in. If it happened today I would probably speak up against it however, because I believe there are less insane and more productive ways of advancing some of those ideas he spoke about. (Being white is not an ideology.) 


 I'm not entirely caught up on the issue of Muslim response to terrorist attacks but from what I hear there might have been as many protests from Mohammedans against Islamophobia as against Mohammedans blowing themselves up, following Mohammedans blowing themselves up in the West.


I don't really care what the majority of Muslims think though. They are irrelevant. https://en.wikipedia...terrorism#Polls http://www.thereligi...nion-polls.aspx

Edited by Keizo, 22 May 2016 - 11:41 AM.

#32 BlueCloud

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 12:12 PM


If someone is claiming to be of your persuasion in some fundamental sense, I think there is very strong reason to try and disavow those people. Especially when what they are doing is condoned in the religious texts you yourself supposedly hold dear. 


Sure. But human psychology is complex. For some muslims, a majority of whom have been ghettoized in the West , the mere thought of publicly dissociating themselves from terrorists already brings paranoia and fear of suspicion. Others have been more vocal , but as usual, you won't hear about them in the media because that doesn't make headlines ( as opposed to publishing about  hysteric bearded talibans, wich pretty much guarantees rates shooting thru the roof for any newspaper or Tv station)


Google for example the " #Not In My Name " movement by devout muslims. There have been plenty of marches, internet manifestations both in the West and in the Arab world etc.. But we rarely get to hear about that in the media.

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#33 Aardvark202

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:18 PM

I think it's worth considering the interplay between Islam and life extension in general. It's pretty undebatable that Islam as a 20th century political entity is not conducive to promoting science and high standards of living. What would be the attitude towards life extension in a Islamic theocracy though? I don't believe people would be directly opposed to it universally, but it would be hard to say how clerics would respond. Looking at the progress of bioscience in the middle East now, I can assume any holes left to be filled scientifically would certainly be left open for awhile.

A more sobering thought, Islamic burial customs intensely frown on anyone not buried in a Islamic manner, and Alcor would likely be forced to be shut down and bury their customers.

The main question we can ask ourselves is what we can actually do as individuals to stop the spread of Islamism and maintain a secular state indefinitely (I think the stress of worrying beyond this is not worth it except on election day). Becoming educated on matters of religion and history is a good start, if we use our knowledge to argue openly against religious political or fundamentalist movements when the topic arises, including with muslims (who may very well agree with you). I would start by reading Sam Harris's work. Additionally, religiosity in Islam is largely propagated by force through execution of apostates, honor violence, and suppression of dissent, and organizations such as the Ayaan Hirsi Ali foundation need support in an effort to lift the veil on free thought. Multiple studies have suggested that despite the strengthening of fundamentalist movements there are genuinely more non religious Muslims closeted in the middle East every year.

Lastly, I think life extension itself is a tool against unnecessary religiosity.
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#34 Aardvark202

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:21 PM

Sorry, didn't quite finish that last post. Life extension is a tool against religiosity both because it weakens (though doesn't eliminate) the demographic transition caused by the fact that more religious people have more children. Also, it goes without saying that many people use religion to escape the fear of death, and the actual ability to indefinitely postpone death gives them a much better option.
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