14 replies to this topic

[muijsenbergq]

Hi,

If you take vit C in combination with iron-containing food (like beef) the vit-C could become a pro-oxidant.
Is this only true for large amounts of vit C or also for small amounts?
Is it nessecery to take them seperately?

could someone elaborate a little on this?

thanks!

[ajnast4r]

i dont see how vitamin C itself could become a pro-oxidant, maybe because it drastically increases the absorbtion of iron... and high levels of iron will cause oxidative damage.

i would not take any vitC supplements with any meat...

and if i did eat meat, i would never eat beef... that stuff is HORRIBLE for you

[muijsenbergq]

i dont see how vitamin C itself could become a pro-oxidant, maybe because it drastically increases the absorbtion of iron... and high levels of iron will cause oxidative damage.

when vitamin C oxidizes, it becomes a reactive species itself.

[Shepard]

All antioxidants become pro-oxidants at some point in time during the body.

[ajnast4r]

yup, nothing to worry about... excess iron however, is something to worry about.

[bacopacabana]

I'm curious about this topic myself. My blood iron levels are consistently high (high normal or actually out of range), but my ferritin is okay. (I do not have hemachromatosis) In fact, over several years of taking IP6 and a couple of blood donations, my ferritin has been cut in half and is actually at the lowest end of normal, almost too low, while my blood iron levels remain chronically high.

The only vitamin C I take is in multis like LEF mix or NSI Synergy Max, which frankly I can't see not taking. I've cut out red meat, and tend towards vegetarian options when possible.

IP6 has been posited for iron removal. I've been wondering if lactoferrin would be useful as well.

[Shepard]

As far as I know, IP6 and K-RALA should help with heavy metal chelation. You could try a product like Risotrene or RiSolubles also, they might have ingredients (other than IP6) to help chelate iron.

[bacopacabana]

The weird thing is I don't really seem to have a problem getting rid of ferritin. The question is how to get just the serum level down, which for some reason the IP6 and blood donation don't seem to affect, at least in me. Ferritin continues to fall, to nearly too-low levels (have now quit IP6 and blood donation), and serum iron remains sky-high. May just be the luck of the draw, a peculiarity of my system, at least I don't have hemachromatosis. I studiously avoid supplements with iron and foods with high iron levels.

Doctors so far remain non-plussed. "Yeah, your iron is a little high."

[trh001]

The Fenton reaction with ascorbate and iron producing hydroxyl radicals is well known, however the references below suggest things may be less straight forward. The first two suggest that very low levels of C in the range of 200mg may have deleterious effects. The last reference is a good review; the overall thrust of the latter is that much of what was assumed to be antioxidant effect may be tied to other aspects of these complex molecules.

Vitamin C induced decomposition of lipid hydroperoxides: direct evidence of genotoxin-DNA binding detected by QCRS.
Chem Commun (Camb). 2001 Sep 21;(18):1886-7.
PMID: 12240363 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Vitamin C-induced decomposition of lipid hydroperoxides to endogenous genotoxins.
Science. 2001 Jun 15;292(5524):2083-6.
PMID: 11408659 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

Biphasic effects of dietary antioxidants on oxidative stress-mediated carcinogenesis.
Mech Ageing Dev. 2006 Mar 4; [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 16519920 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

[biggee]

ajnast4r wrote:

and if i did eat meat, i would never eat beef... that stuff is HORRIBLE for you

So how come vegetarians have shorter life spans than meat eaters then?

[Shepard]

So how come vegetarians have shorter life spans than meat eaters then?

Not supplementing properly, or being stupid and eating unhealthy (keeping insulin elevated).

[Pablo M]

Bacopa: you might try adding green tea to your iron-chelating regimen. You might also want to check out "The Iron Time Bomb" by Bill Sardi. PM me and I can *ahem* help you find it.

[biggee]

So how come vegetarians have shorter life spans than meat eaters then?

Not supplementing properly, or being stupid and eating unhealthy (keeping insulin elevated).

Not supplementing properly, or being stupid and eating unhealthy (keeping insulin elevated), anymore so than meat eaters...... Unless lack of carnivorous food makes one stupid!

[Shepard]

Uh, what?

[syr_]

anymore so than meat eaters...... Unless lack of carnivorous food makes one stupid!

Not supplementing if your diet lacks some essential nutrient is just plain stupid, period.