374 replies to this topic

[rodentman]

ok, GDF-11 Update after 5 months:

 

Me:  Male, 48, Crohn's Disease since ~25, chronic fatigue since ~35.  No exercise (due to CFS), ok diet.

 

Current dose: 60 pg every 4 days,  Total amount taken to date: 7935 pgs.  I am probably finished loading/up-regulating, taking larger doses seems to cause malaise, and stopping completely feels terrible.

 

Overall.. I am feeling better than I did before starting.  As a CFS sufferer, journaling well-being from day-to-day is a must.  On a scale of 1 to 10, I've gone from about a 5 to a 6.5.  More energy, less brain-fog, less inhibition.  During my 2nd month, I felt extremely good... best I had felt in years, like my CFS was completely gone.  But unfortunately it was temporary, and only lasted about 3 weeks. For the first 4 months, I continued to have somewhat random days of mini-malaise (mild feverish feeling, etc), but thankfully, those 'spells' seemed to have stopped over the last month.  I am guessing they were from doses being too high, but they could also be from my body getting 'used' to GDF-11.

 

A bit of warning (at least for some people)  I decided to go off 'cold-turkey' for about 20 days, and I definitely had 'withdrawals' that peaked about 13 days after... and I felt really miserable... even worse than I did before starting.  Those all disappeared when I started up again.

 

Some other observations:

* No superficial changes (other than the missing crow's feet), but I've heard other people say I look a bit 'better', but I don't really see it.

* My pre-GDF11 GERD is gone.  This is pretty significant, because I had GERD long before this, and I've been living with an inflamed esophagus for quite a while, maybe up to two years.  It's wonderful to be able to eat without gagging anymore.

* Reaction time is definitely better.  I was very skeptical of this, but I'm 100% certain that this is legitimate.  I've improved 25 ms. 

* Slight decrease in H.R. and blood pressure

* No personality change, other than slightly less inhibition.

* Diet is worse (due to Covid)

 

I'll be doing a complete blood sample, and will be taking the Horvath grimAge Methylation Calculator in another month (From Steve himself).  Unfortunately, this is my first time taking the grimAge test, so I won't be able to compare the clock with a previous measurement... but the grimAge clock is quite accurate and isn't dramatically altered by lifestyle changes (unlike other clocks).  I would expect it to be higher than my biological age, since I have health issues, and I never exercise.

[stevegperry]

Rodentman,

 

Thanks for the update and it sounds like you have gotten some nice results from GDF11.  Just the fact that you got rid of your GERD, makes GDF11 worthwhile.

 

Dosing GDF11 is very difficult, especially since there is a down regulation phase followed by a maintenance phase.  The dose has to be carefully titrated to the trending of at least the "Big Four" biomarkers, which are BP, RT, pulse and HRV.

 

You are probably down regulated and 60 pg every 4 days is surely way too much.  The average maintenance dose is 10 pg/twice per month and the biomarkers need to be closely monitored - excess GDF11 is detrimental and can make you quite sick.  Side effects include insomnia, dyspnia and arrhythmia. 

 

Here is my latest talk at Longevity 2020.  Note we have automated some of the biomarkers using an Emfit.  If you really want to do GDF11 right, you should join our study.

[rodentman]

Rodentman,

 

Thanks for the update and it sounds like you have gotten some nice results from GDF11.  Just the fact that you got rid of your GERD, makes GDF11 worthwhile.

 

Dosing GDF11 is very difficult, especially since there is a down regulation phase followed by a maintenance phase.  The dose has to be carefully titrated to the trending of at least the "Big Four" biomarkers, which are BP, RT, pulse and HRV.

 

You are probably down regulated and 60 pg every 4 days is surely way too much.  The average maintenance dose is 10 pg/twice per month and the biomarkers need to be closely monitored - excess GDF11 is detrimental and can make you quite sick.  Side effects include insomnia, dyspnia and arrhythmia. 

 

Here is my latest talk at Longevity 2020.  Note we have automated some of the biomarkers using an Emfit.  If you really want to do GDF11 right, you should join our study.

 

Thanks for the info, and yes, I do plan to reduce my dose over the coming weeks, but at this point, I don't think I can manage 15 days in between doses without having a 'withdrawal', I can probably do once a week though.  I will definitely watch your talk... they are always very informative.

 

Just as a side note, I've noticed the anti-aging community is finally starting to wake-up to the implications of parabiosis studies and the idea that the the body's age state is transmitted system-wide via signal molecules in the blood.  Especially now, after Dr. Katcher's study.

[stevegperry]

Rodentman,

 

Well "withdrawal" is a pretty strong term.  Whenever I have any doubts about someone's dosing, I have them take a break of at least two weeks and see how they trend.  No one has ever gotten the DTs (!) but people do not like to go off GDF11, even if the biomarkers are going the wrong way.

 

Personally, I have taken breaks of a month or more, and I have never had any cravings, shakes or other withdrawal issues.  However, I will say that the biomarkers start to sag a bit, especially RT and HRV.  And when I take some GDF11, the next day I can't stop moving - I go on cleaning binges, compose music and finish the great American novel.  Only kidding about the last two!

 

Katcher's stuff is interesting, but he certainly does not put terabytes of biomarkers on the table like we do.  And I do not think DNA methylation is the last word in biomarkers.  Maybe the tests have improved, but  my results from MyDNAge.com have not been consistent. Sometimes I am 45 and sometimes I am 60 (I am 62).  Having spent six years of analyzing hundreds of people's biomarkers, I can tell you one thing - if you can improve the big four, BP, RT, pulse and HRV, then you definitely are onto something big...

 

[Hip]

Well "withdrawal" is a pretty strong term.  Whenever I have any doubts about someone's dosing, I have them take a break of at least two weeks and see how they trend.  No one has ever gotten the DTs (!) but people do not like to go off GDF11, even if the biomarkers are going the wrong way.

 

Like rodentman, I also have the disease myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), and after his success with GDF11, I tried it myself. 

 

I've also noticed a slight rebound effect when I stop taking GDF11. When I inject 20 picograms, it starts working on the same day, and then for the following 2 or 3 days I feel the full effects of the GDF11. But then as it starts wearing off at around the 4th day after the injection, I get a couple of days where I actually feel more tired than normal, and a bit depressed. But then after these 2 rebound days, I return to normal baseline. 

 

However, if I keep taking GDF11 continuously, re-injecting before it wears off, then no rebound is noticed. So it's not an issue if you use GDF11 continuously for periods of time.

 

 

 

Generally though, for me the side effects of GDF11 outweigh the benefits:

 

After starting with 200 to 400 picogram doses every other day for several weeks, I went down to injecting 20 picograms of GDF11 every 4 or 5 days. This small dose seems to produce almost as much benefit as the higher 200 to 400 picogram doses I was using earlier.

 

What I find is that within hours of an injection, the benefits kick in. The positive benefits I notice are much better mood and optimism, more drive and motivation, increased mental focus, and increased energy. The increased focus and energy are useful in ME/CFS, as this illness is characterized by brain fog and fatigue. 

 

The negatives of GDF11 I experience are the agitation / anxiety / overstimulation / anger / irritability, which you said, Steve, are not uncommon in people who take GDF11. And oddly, in spite of the better mood and increased drive, I found libido goes down dramatically on GDF11. 

 

Going down to 20 picograms taken every 4 or 5 days has reduced the agitation and overstimulation, but it is still there. And this lower dose has greatly reduced the anger and irritability.

 

 

Because of this overstimulation side effect, I probably will not continue with GDF11. The benefits are useful, but the overstimulation is unpleasant. I am not able to relax, and it disturbs my sleep. 

 

The intuitive feeling I have is that GDF11 might be providing some of its benefits via a stimulant action on the brain, like say Ritalin, which works on norepinephrine. I think this could explain the overstimulation / agitation I feel.

 

But the overstimulation / agitation feeling also includes some testosterone-like aggression at higher doses (200 picograms), which I was able to counter with supplements which reduce testosterone, like menthol, saw palmetto and zinc. So for me the side effects are a combo of being too "wired" and overstimulated, as well as being too aggressive.

 

But ME/CFS patients are often oversensitive to drugs and supplements, so my experience may not apply to healthier people. 

[rodentman]

Rodentman,

 

Well "withdrawal" is a pretty strong term.  Whenever I have any doubts about someone's dosing, I have them take a break of at least two weeks and see how they trend.  No one has ever gotten the DTs (!) but people do not like to go off GDF11, even if the biomarkers are going the wrong way.

 

Personally, I have taken breaks of a month or more, and I have never had any cravings, shakes or other withdrawal issues.  However, I will say that the biomarkers start to sag a bit, especially RT and HRV.  And when I take some GDF11, the next day I can't stop moving - I go on cleaning binges, compose music and finish the great American novel.  Only kidding about the last two!

 

Katcher's stuff is interesting, but he certainly does not put terabytes of biomarkers on the table like we do.  And I do not think DNA methylation is the last word in biomarkers.  Maybe the tests have improved, but  my results from MyDNAge.com have not been consistent. Sometimes I am 45 and sometimes I am 60 (I am 62).  Having spent six years of analyzing hundreds of people's biomarkers, I can tell you one thing - if you can improve the big four, BP, RT, pulse and HRV, then you definitely are onto something big...

 

Yeah, withdrawal is not really the appropriate term... there's no actual cravings.. it's more like a reversal of benefits.    As far as side-effects, as Hip says, the side effects of GDF11 might be different for people with CFS/ME, since our system is very screwed up to begin with.   But I have Auto-immune triggered (gradual onset) CFS and he has post-viral CFS,    But for whatever reason, my side-effects (mini-malaise) seems to finally stopped over the last month, so it's possible I just had to go through an adjustment phase.

 

The online DNA methylation test advertise themselves as being 'based' on the Dr. Horvath’s epigenetic age clock', but they are not the actual GrimAge test.    The actual GrimAge test, is quite reliable, and can't be easily fooled.  Even with strict life-style changes, it only goes down a couple years from the biological age... whereas I've seen the online 'knockoffs' go down 25 years after a few months of exercise.  

 

Yes, your biomarkers are much more complete than his... and I hope that when he starts the human trials, he also includes response time, HRV, etc.  I've actually brought that up to him.   But what I was getting at, was more about Katcher's philosophy seems to be more inline with yours.  That studying parabiosis was the 'window' into the aging mechanism.  And that info about the body’s age state is transmitted system-wide via signal molecules in the blood.

[Peptimaniac]

I am starting an LLC to procure peptides and GDF11. Who would want me to order and send out 5ug vials for them from a reputable company? I'm not asking for cash upfront just a commitment to buy it when I get it.

[nickthird]

I'm in, depending on price.

[stevegperry]

Rodentman and Guest,

 

I do think that anyone who worships at the alter of parabiosis is on the right track. So Harold may be onto something. Harold has said that his "Elixir" is upstream from GDF11.  And I'd bet that eventually we find that GDF11 secretion is under hypothalmic control.  Somewhere in the hypothalamus there is surely an aging clock that knows how old you are.  How else would the hypothalamus "know" to secrete GnRH to initiate puberty in your early teens?

 

But if there is a hypothalmic clock (or something similar), which is upstream from GDF11, GH, Klotho, etc. why would it programmed by some blood borne peptide?  Wouldn't this clock be something more like rings on a tree trunk?

 

Ok, enough philosophizing.  GDF11 is the best anti aging peptide we have now and I'm going to stick with it until someone shows me much better biomarkers. Especially in the Big Four of BP, pulse, HRV and RT which are nearly impossible to improve over time.  As well as absolute naive T cell count, PEF, waking glucose, skin elasticity and a few of my other favorites.

 

As for "guest" above, how old are you and are you titrating to the trending of at least the Big Four biomarkers?  If not, that's just like taking insulin without a glucometer - not recommended!  Unlike insulin, excess GDF11 probably won't kill you, but make quite sick w/insomnia, GERD, dyspnea and even arrhythmia. Also, never heard anyone complain about GDF11 and libido - in fact, I've heard many times people talking about better erections.  Makes sense because one of GDF11's MOAs is endothelial repair and that's good for all the capillaries in your penis. 

 

BTW, I googled GrimAge and all that comes up is MyDNAge, which I haven't had good luck with.  How does one get the GrimAge test?

 

Tnx.

 

Steve

 

 

Edited by stevegperry, 18 May 2020 - 08:23 PM.

[Hip]

As for "guest" above, how old are you and are you titrating to the trending of at least the Big Four biomarkers? 

 

Are you asking me that question? If so, I did not use those biomarkers, because I am not experimenting with GDF11 for anti-aging purposes, but to see if it will reduce by ME/CFS symptoms. And not having worked for 20 years due to illness, I have to be careful with expenditures. I am mid-50s.

 

I would probably buy some of these machines, like a HRV machine, if GDF11 had been effective for my ME/CFS. But I've found the side effects are likely going to make GDF11 untenable as an ME/CFS treatment, unless I try ultra low doses of less than 1 picogram, where perhaps these side effects will not occur. That's something I have yet to do. 

 

 

 

On a different note, one thing that does not make sense to me is how such tiny picogram doses of GDF11 can have any effect at all (I don't doubt they do have an effect, because of the clearcut side effects I experienced on them).

 

If you look at table 1 of this 2016 paper, they found in postmenopausal women, the average blood level of GDF11 was 5.92 ng/ml. I know that in the past, errors were made in GDF11 measurement, due to the fact that the testing could not distinguish between GDF8 and GDF11. But this paper claims to have mostly addressed this:

 

 

To minimize potential cross-reactivity with GDF8, we measured serum GDF11 concentration with a sensitive enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) kit according to Egerman’s12 methods.

 

Now there are about 50 liters of water in a human body, that is 50,000 ml of water. So at a concentration of 5.92 ng/ml, the total amount of GDF11 in the body will be 50000 * 5.92 = 296,000 ng = approx 300,000,000 picograms.

 

So with 300,000,000 picograms of GDF11 already in your body water, adding an extra few hundred picograms is hardly going to make any difference to what is there already.

 

So on first analysis, it does not seem like picogram injections of GDF11 would have any effect. I am not denying that they do have effect, just that it does not make much sense that they do, given the results from this paper.

 

What are your thoughts on that?

 

Incidentally, figure 1 of the paper found that GDF11 increases with age.

Edited by Hip, 18 May 2020 - 11:52 PM.

[Colorow]

I am starting an LLC to procure peptides and GDF11. Who would want me to order and send out 5ug vials for them from a reputable company? I'm not asking for cash upfront just a commitment to buy it when I get it.

 

I also would be interested depending on price and sourcing

[rodentman]

Rodentman and Guest,

 

I do think that anyone who worships at the alter of parabiosis is on the right track. So Harold may be onto something. Harold has said that his "Elixir" is upstream from GDF11.  And I'd bet that eventually we find that GDF11 secretion is under hypothalmic control.  Somewhere in the hypothalamus there is surely an aging clock that knows how old you are.  How else would the hypothalamus "know" to secrete GnRH to initiate puberty in your early teens?

 

But if there is a hypothalmic clock (or something similar), which is upstream from GDF11, GH, Klotho, etc. why would it programmed by some blood borne peptide?  Wouldn't this clock be something more like rings on a tree trunk?

 

Ok, enough philosophizing.  GDF11 is the best anti aging peptide we have now and I'm going to stick with it until someone shows me much better biomarkers. Especially in the Big Four of BP, pulse, HRV and RT which are nearly impossible to improve over time.  As well as absolute naive T cell count, PEF, waking glucose, skin elasticity and a few of my other favorites.

 

As for "guest" above, how old are you and are you titrating to the trending of at least the Big Four biomarkers?  If not, that's just like taking insulin without a glucometer - not recommended!  Unlike insulin, excess GDF11 probably won't kill you, but make quite sick w/insomnia, GERD, dyspnea and even arrhythmia. Also, never heard anyone complain about GDF11 and libido - in fact, I've heard many times people talking about better erections.  Makes sense because one of GDF11's MOAs is endothelial repair and that's good for all the capillaries in your penis. 

 

BTW, I googled GrimAge and all that comes up is MyDNAge, which I haven't had good luck with.  How does one get the GrimAge test?

 

Tnx.

 

Steve

 

 

Yeah, you're preaching to the choir.   So far, GDF-11 has been the best 'fix' to my ailments that I've tried; not to mention, I can't believe I now have the same reaction time as my son.

 

I've been cursed with an ancestry that disproportionately suffers from Auto-Immune diseases (surprisingly common for Ashkenazis).  For us, and many others, the diseases 'switch-on' like clock-work with age.  So Crohn's at 25, GERD at 30, CFS at 35, Iritis at 40, the list goes on.   There was something very chronological about it...  the older I got, the more my immune system miss-fires... that sorta led me to 'thymic regeneration' therapies, which led me to GDF11 and the idea of very specific 'upstream' 'rejuvenation factors' present in young blood holding promise.

 

Anyway, the GERD is gone, and CFS seems to be waning, so if this continues, the GDF-11 is worth it's weight in anti-matter.  It has been a roller-coaster ride... but I definitely feel like I'm getting better.

 

As far as the clocks, there's been a number of them, and they all fallow the same principle which Horvath pioneered... weighting an algorithmic combo of certain DNA methylation sites.  But the GrimAge, which came out January 2019, is the one that finally had accurate results... not just in humans, but in everything.  MyDNAge has been providing their 'clock' way before the GrimAge existed, since 2017.... but they used crafty SEO to take advantage of Steve Horvath's notoriety/press.

 

As of now, the only way I know to get the actual GrimAge test is through S. Horvath, or through trials that S. Horvath is working with.  I am actually getting the grimAge test done in a couple months when I start TRIIMX trial (which S. Horvath co-authors).  I'll see if I can find out what's in the pipeline for consumers. 

[stevegperry]

I am talking to Guest with the green snake medical logo.  It doesn't matter what your use for GDF11 is - the dose has to be carefully titrated to at least the BIg Four biomarkers or you can run into big, big trouble.  And the cost of basic biomarker equipment is not ridiculous.  An Omron BP monitor is $60, and the Emfit which does super accurate HRV, pulse, deep sleep %, etc. is $250.  RT is done on a computer.

 

As for tiny pg doses doing anything, read my white paper on GDF11 Rejuvenation.com.  MOA of GDF11 is stem cell DNA repair and there are hardly any stem cells in the body.  For example, at 18 years old, you only have 20,000 hematopoetic cells that make all your blood.  Hard to believe, but true!

[aribadabar]

The username of that user is Hip (located above the avatar)

 

I am talking to Guest with the green snake medical logo.

 

[Peptimaniac]

I'm in, depending on price.

 

 

I also would be interested depending on price and sourcing

Gotcha! No more than $100 and from a US company.

[nickthird]

deleted.

Edited by nickthird, 19 May 2020 - 03:44 AM.

[lost69]

any professional singer here who treid gdf11 for clues?

 

i started gdf11 jan 2017, i soon noticed i recovered my upper range headvoice/whistle notes to around C7.i totally lost whistle range at about 45yo (notes males cannot do and few high soprano females can do) this is an example of extremely good/rare male on those notes,i m no way as good as him technically but it is awsome still having that range to sing those notes when you are 51yo

 

i lowered doses over time and stopped gdf11 aug 2019 because hrv, rmmsd were going very very low (BP, pulse not affected) and slowly lost that range and most of headvoice high range  and i thought it was reflux definitely damaging all vocal cords

 

june 21, few days ago i tried 0.05ng again and by 24hrs i had that range again, vocal cords still stiff and sound unstable and not so clean and highest dimash notes are not there yet but i can feel the structures in my vocal cords can vibrate again and not stiff/paralyzed and no need of much air/volume to let those notes out, i can get them even very low volume

i guess if i keep using gfd11 they get back full, clean and strong.the problem is i get very bad HRV 43 and rmssd 16, previous rmssd around 25-35.so it is like vocal cords getting young, heart getting older......

 

did any singer find similar results?

what to do?

maybe other protocols like stemcells renewal/nicotinamide riboside use are controindicated with gdf11

 

stop all other protocols and restart only gdf11?

 

i have dna methylation test underway, if i dont find very good results i may switch back to gfd11 only although skin/face/body look extremely young to other people/friends now, some people not knowing me think i am 24-35yo, friends around 35yo, and also my swimming is in line with younger swimmers 25yo and younger

Edited by lost69, 23 June 2020 - 12:49 PM.

[rodentman]

any professional singer here who treid gdf11 for clues?

 

i started gdf11 jan 2017, i soon noticed i recovered my upper range headvoice/whistle notes to around C7.i totally lost whistle range at about 45yo (notes males cannot do and few high soprano females can do) this is an example of extremely good/rare male on those notes,i m no way as good as him technically but it is awsome still having that range to sing those notes when you are 51yo

 

i lowered doses over time and stopped gdf11 aug 2019 because hrv, rmmsd were going very very low (BP, pulse not affected) and slowly lost that range and most of headvoice high range  and i thought it was reflux definitely damaging all vocal cords

 

june 21, few days ago i tried 0.05ng again and by 24hrs i had that range again, vocal cords still stiff and sound unstable and not so clean and highest dimash notes are not there yet but i can feel the structures in my vocal cords can vibrate again and not stiff/paralyzed and no need of much air/volume to let those notes out, i can get them even very low volume

i guess if i keep using gfd11 they get back full, clean and strong.the problem is i get very bad HRV 43 and rmssd 16, previous rmssd around 25-35.so it is like vocal cords getting young, heart getting older......

 

did any singer find similar results?

what to do?

maybe other protocols like stemcells renewal/nicotinamide riboside use are controindicated with gdf11

 

stop all other protocols and restart only gdf11?

 

i have dna methylation test underway, if i dont find very good results i may switch back to gfd11 only although skin/face/body look extremely young to other people/friends now, some people not knowing me think i am 24-35yo, friends around 35yo, and also my swimming is in line with younger swimmers 25yo and younger

 

 

Hello lost69.  I am not a singer, but I do sing along with my guitar playing, and I've noticed a moderate improvements as far as head-voice control, but nothing dramatic... but it's not like I ever had the ability to sing like Steve Perry (the singer, not the topic starter)  

 

But one thing I am almost certain of, is that GDF11, (as with pretty much all blood factor therapies), stops working after you completely stop using it.  S. Perry (topic starter) said that his skin elasticity went down after he stopped for a couple months).   Even Harold Katcher's breakthrough 'elixir' isn't permanent, and required the rats to be 're-dosed' after a couple months.  Keep in mind that the 'maintenance' dose of GDF11 is extremely small... less than 20 pg/wk, maybe even low as 5 pg/month.

 

Also,  if you were getting GERD (acid damaging your esophogus), from GDF11, you were probably taking too much.

 

As far as the dna methylation, which service are you using? and do you have a previous tests to compare it with?   

[lost69]

Hello lost69.  I am not a singer, but I do sing along with my guitar playing, and I've noticed a moderate improvements as far as head-voice control, but nothing dramatic... but it's not like I ever had the ability to sing like Steve Perry (the singer, not the topic starter)  

 

But one thing I am almost certain of, is that GDF11, (as with pretty much all blood factor therapies), stops working after you completely stop using it.  S. Perry (topic starter) said that his skin elasticity went down after he stopped for a couple months).   Even Harold Katcher's breakthrough 'elixir' isn't permanent, and required the rats to be 're-dosed' after a couple months.  Keep in mind that the 'maintenance' dose of GDF11 is extremely small... less than 20 pg/wk, maybe even low as 5 pg/month.

 

Also,  if you were getting GERD (acid damaging your esophogus), from GDF11, you were probably taking too much.

 

As far as the dna methylation, which service are you using? and do you have a previous tests to compare it with?   

 

well of course it all depends on the vocal cords you have genetically as a baseline after puberty transition.i guess loss in range happens during 40-50yo as elasticity is lost or decreased

 

my range has always been extreme, at 30yo i had zero knowledge about placing sound in the face/head or breath support and i could sing skid row/queensryche/kiske or women songs for hours in fullvoice with zero breath support (not headvoice), so the cords are genetically designed to reach easily there.of course the sound quality would be just a horrible scream without placing the sound in the head.

so gdf11 probably gives me back all that flexibility on the cords and very good cord closure for headvoice

 

your improvements reflect the maximum your vocal cords can do so the effect could be on anyone as skin/vocal cords elasticity is gained back

 

not exactly gerd but laryngeal reflux only.i have it since 30yo and maybe worsen a little when using gdf11 but now it is nothing

 

i use mydnage.com, first test at 49yo few months into gdf11 and gave 40yo.now retesting at 51yo and according to that result i will choose between stemcell renewal protocol or gfd11

 

results of dna methylation reflect how old i look both from friends and unknown people, one person was shocked when i told her 51yo she thought i was 24yo
 

Edited by lost69, 23 June 2020 - 09:24 PM.

[rodentman]

well of course it all depends on the vocal cords you have genetically as a baseline after puberty transition.i guess loss in range happens during 40-50yo as elasticity is lost or decreased

 

my range has always been extreme, at 30yo i had zero knowledge about placing sound in the face/head or breath support and i could sing skid row/queensryche/kiske or women songs for hours in fullvoice with zero breath support (not headvoice), so the cords are genetically designed to reach easily there.of course the sound quality would be just a horrible scream without placing the sound in the head.

so gdf11 probably gives me back all that flexibility on the cords and very good cord closure for headvoice

 

your improvements reflect the maximum your vocal cords can do so the effect could be on anyone as skin/vocal cords elasticity is gained back

 

not exactly gerd but laryngeal reflux only.i have it since 30yo and maybe worsen a little when using gdf11 but now it is nothing

 

i use mydnage.com, first test at 49yo few months into gdf11 and gave 40yo.now retesting at 51yo and according to that result i will choose between stemcell renewal protocol or gfd11

 

results of dna methylation reflect how old i look both from friends and unknown people, one person was shocked when i told her 51yo she thought i was 24yo
 

 

 

 

Yes, your mydnage.com changes sound similar to other GDF11 users.  I had an improvement of 9 years as well, and that was without any exercising and a horrible diet; this stuff definitely works.  I'm starting a clinical study in the coming months, and the leading doctor/researcher (Dr. Fahy), was blown away by my numbers (with the exception of my lipids, because of my horrible diet).

 

I am definitely jealous if you look half your age.  I've noticed small superficial improvements, but not 25 years; that's quite extraordinary. Do you have any video of yourself?   Maybe I still look old since I still have gray hair on my sides, but I've heard other GDF11 users say that the gray disappears after 12-16 months of continual use, but if not, that's ok.

 

I honestly don't know the time it takes for the GDF11 'improvements' to revert to pre-therapeutic levels.  There may be certain facial improvements/rejuvenation that takes years to revert to the chronological age.

[echoman]

I wonder if our gdf-11 Steve Perry is a singer ?

[james freele]

I think one of the key points to look at is vagal nerves tone. If it helps remove or stop viruses from creating plaques.

 

[lost69]

Yes, your mydnage.com changes sound similar to other GDF11 users.  I had an improvement of 9 years as well, and that was without any exercising and a horrible diet; this stuff definitely works.  I'm starting a clinical study in the coming months, and the leading doctor/researcher (Dr. Fahy), was blown away by my numbers (with the exception of my lipids, because of my horrible diet).

 

I am definitely jealous if you look half your age.  I've noticed small superficial improvements, but not 25 years; that's quite extraordinary. Do you have any video of yourself?   Maybe I still look old since I still have gray hair on my sides, but I've heard other GDF11 users say that the gray disappears after 12-16 months of continual use, but if not, that's ok.

 

I honestly don't know the time it takes for the GDF11 'improvements' to revert to pre-therapeutic levels.  There may be certain facial improvements/rejuvenation that takes years to revert to the chronological age.

 

now that you talk about grey hair it is somewhat worsen on sideburns but i dye because grey looks so strange compared to young face skin, reaction time worsened and age spots on chest which are in the same area as my father's

 

as regards skin it has improved so much using stemcell renewal, in particular i have same weight i had when 16yo (i can wear same shirts i still have) and lost all that puffiness you get with age but the skin has no laxity at all, no nasolabial lines/wrinkles and this happened stopping everyday swimming due to coronavirus.plus i still date 18-25yo without telling age i guess they would be shocked, a lady was shocked when i told her 51yo she thought i was 24yo, i definitely got younger look compared to when i was 45yo.you also have to note my father and others on his family are very long lived and don t look 80-90yo as to wrinkles but they do have all the illnesses/pains of old age

 

if i find methylation over 40yo gdf11 is probably the best choice between protocols

 

anyway the vocal folds getting younger is very interesting point to study, i think it is impossible to reverse vocal folds aging just surgery as steve perry had
 

Edited by lost69, 24 June 2020 - 11:20 AM.

[stevegperry]

Good to hear that GDF11 is improving your singing!  I am not a musician, but I love music and listen to Alt Nation all day long. Favorite bands right now include AJR, Barns Courtney, Young the Giant and Saint Motel.  I like to crank up my stereo and sing along, but you would not want to hear my screeching!

 

Was really bummed they cancelled Bonnaroo in June and I hope they do have the concert in on 9/24 as scheduled.

 

Put up some links to your best tracks and I'll give them a listen.

[Mind]

Yes, your mydnage.com changes sound similar to other GDF11 users.  I had an improvement of 9 years as well, and that was without any exercising and a horrible diet; this stuff definitely works.  I'm starting a clinical study in the coming months, and the leading doctor/researcher (Dr. Fahy), was blown away by my numbers (with the exception of my lipids, because of my horrible diet).

 

I am definitely jealous if you look half your age.  I've noticed small superficial improvements, but not 25 years; that's quite extraordinary. Do you have any video of yourself?   Maybe I still look old since I still have gray hair on my sides, but I've heard other GDF11 users say that the gray disappears after 12-16 months of continual use, but if not, that's ok.

 

I honestly don't know the time it takes for the GDF11 'improvements' to revert to pre-therapeutic levels.  There may be certain facial improvements/rejuvenation that takes years to revert to the chronological age.

 

Fahy? Clinical Study? How do I join? What is the cost?

[rodentman]

Fahy? Clinical Study? How do I join? What is the cost?

 

It's the followup to the triim study.  I filled out a form last year when they announced it, but I assume they will have additional ones.  The cost depends on how much of the medication cost they cover, but if they don't cover anything, 12 months of HGH is quite expensive, so the cost can exceed $12K.  I'm sort of a 'special case' as they are analyzing thymus involution reversal on specific types of autoimmune diseases.

[lost69]

Good to hear that GDF11 is improving your singing!  I am not a musician, but I love music and listen to Alt Nation all day long. Favorite bands right now include AJR, Barns Courtney, Young the Giant and Saint Motel.  I like to crank up my stereo and sing along, but you would not want to hear my screeching!

 

Was really bummed they cancelled Bonnaroo in June and I hope they do have the concert in on 9/24 as scheduled.

 

Put up some links to your best tracks and I'll give them a listen.

 

i just sing for myself because it really makes me feel better feeling those high notes resonating in the head (no such effect from low chest register).

it kind of totally kills stress of everyday life and makes me feel better instantly
 

[james freele]

I agree the less stress the less where on the nerves from zinc depletion that I believe.

[Mind]

It's the followup to the triim study.  I filled out a form last year when they announced it, but I assume they will have additional ones.  The cost depends on how much of the medication cost they cover, but if they don't cover anything, 12 months of HGH is quite expensive, so the cost can exceed $12K.  I'm sort of a 'special case' as they are analyzing thymus involution reversal on specific types of autoimmune diseases.

 

Sorry, I thought you were talking about a GDF-11 study (the topic of this thread).

[lost69]

any professional singer here who treid gdf11 for clues?

 

i started gdf11 jan 2017, i soon noticed i recovered my upper range headvoice/whistle notes to around C7.i totally lost whistle range at about 45yo (notes males cannot do and few high soprano females can do) this is an example of extremely good/rare male on those notes,i m no way as good as him technically but it is awsome still having that range to sing those notes when you are 51yo

 

i lowered doses over time and stopped gdf11 aug 2019 because hrv, rmmsd were going very very low (BP, pulse not affected) and slowly lost that range and most of headvoice high range  and i thought it was reflux definitely damaging all vocal cords

 

june 21, few days ago i tried 0.05ng again and by 24hrs i had that range again, vocal cords still stiff and sound unstable and not so clean and highest dimash notes are not there yet but i can feel the structures in my vocal cords can vibrate again and not stiff/paralyzed and no need of much air/volume to let those notes out, i can get them even very low volume

i guess if i keep using gfd11 they get back full, clean and strong.the problem is i get very bad HRV 43 and rmssd 16, previous rmssd around 25-35.so it is like vocal cords getting young, heart getting older......

 

did any singer find similar results?

what to do?

maybe other protocols like stemcells renewal/nicotinamide riboside use are controindicated with gdf11

 

stop all other protocols and restart only gdf11?

 

i have dna methylation test underway, if i dont find very good results i may switch back to gfd11 only although skin/face/body look extremely young to other people/friends now, some people not knowing me think i am 24-35yo, friends around 35yo, and also my swimming is in line with younger swimmers 25yo and younger

 

this time after trending bad for 24-48hrs (0.05ng injection), rmssd, hrv, diastolic BP, pulse are now trending better than baseline.

 

baseline bp 71, hrv 44, rmssd 17, pulse 80

24hrs after injection diastolic BP 86, hrv 39,rmssd 12, pulse 83

10days after injection injection diastolic BP 73, hrv 48,rmssd 23, pulse 68

 

did anyone experince such trend?shall i try 0.025ng when parameters plateau or start trending bad again?