28 replies to this topic

[Qowpel]

Hello everyone. I have been having a lot of subcutaneous water retention in my face and abdominal area. Had my thyroid checked and nothing showed up.


So I have been low carving which always lessens the bloating about half. Only like one day of the week I have a random day in which I have no retention.

Did some reading and thought maybe it's my cortisol levels being high because after working out my retention gets even worse and cortisol increases after excercise so.

I eat low sodium as having even hundred percent era causes bad retention as well. But I did some reading and some said low cortisol could cause retention which is contradictory to what I see in my story above. So I tried increasing potassium intake thinking it may help and drink plenty of water daily... Then I read low sodium can cause retention......

Did more reading on aldosterone and some say you can lower it with vitamin d but unsure.... I take zinc as well In Addition to diet as I read lowers cortisol. This is getting me mad. Can someone please help

[aconita]

HGH is well known to cause water retention and HGH rise with training, under normal conditions it is unlikely training HGH rise is enough (and especially LAST enough) to cause noticeable water retention...but if for some reason your HGH is higher than normal it might be an explanation.

 

Testing HGH is a pain in the neck.

 

So I have been low carving

 

 

 Does that mean low carbs?

 

 

[Qowpel]

Oh yeah man that does typo

[aconita]

Low carbs and water retention sounds weird, there must be something else...and I doubt it is related to sodium intake.

 

It may be caused by very different issues, I suggest a doctor to have a look.

 

The body uses a complex system of hormones and hormone-like substances called prostaglandins to keep its volume of fluid at a constant level

 

https://en.wikipedia...tion_(medicine)

 

Prostaglandins are part of the eicosanoids family which you can manipulate by omega 3, a GOOD fish oil supplement high in DHA/EPA and in the right proportions may help.

 

I suggest a blood test for triglycerides, HDL and LDL, Tg/LDL ratio above 2 indicates unbalance that suggest fish oil supplementation.  

[Qowpel]

Hmm I think that's a great idea. For the meantime I keep reading that Epsom salt and soaking in it helps with water retention. Is this true to any level

[aconita]

Common salt does the same but is cheaper, I doubt it would be very effective and certainly doesn't fix the cause of the issue.

 

Anyway it does not harm.

[Qowpel]

Well thank you I think I am going to order arimidex to low estrogen as I see many taking it for that purpose. Not to mention that a year ago I got a blood panel done showing low normal testosterone and high normal estradiol. What do you think for me, a male taking this? Also where can I purchase it reliably online

[aconita]

High estrogen may well be the cause for your water retention and it is likely to cause more issues too.

 

Since testosterone is converted in estrogen by an enzyme called aromatase it is possible that in your case it is overactive depleting testosterone in favor of estrogen, before thinking about drugs which always come with unpleasant side effects it is worth to try adjustment in lifestyle and nutrition.

 

But first lets check your thyroid function properly because it is such a common issue in most people.

 

If your thyroid is not functioning as it should all other hormones are compromised as well, low testosterone and high estrogen included.

 

Blood test are NOT accurate and even showing in range values means little about real thyroid function.

 

A simple and quite indicative test is basal temperature which has to be above 36,5.

 

Place a thermometer besides the bed and take your temperature first thing in the morning while still in bed before doing anything else: that is your basal temperature.  

[Qowpel]

I can tell you I have night sweats most nights. And my extremeties are constantly cold. I have always had low normal testosterone and high normal estradiol. I retain the most water In my face and around the eyes in mornings and it slightly lessens throughout the day.. I got readings for my thyroid a few months ago and the endocrinologist said I had no problem.

I have insomnia I must constantly combat with heavy workouts. And I hold most of my fat around my thighs, buttocks, love handles and lower abdomen that nothing ever gets rid of.



What I was thinking was this. That I do something to lower estrogen. First step is upping my zinc I take. Second I was considering that DIM estrogen converter that promotes the good metabolites of estrogen and promotes the bad metabolites to be excreted through the liver but upon reading more found out that it apparently causes water retention. . Did reading on Chrysin and it seems pretty useless. Read about myomin which may be good.

My big fear is going on something in the arimidex family or aromasin family and losing my hair from the indirect increase of dht. I read some guys get it. It's like attack of the bs haha. What do you think about all I just listed? Also


Also if I did lower estrogen maybe I can start losing some very stubborn fat that refuses to mobolize

[aconita]

Of course high estrogen is an issue that has to be addressed as low testosterone is since many of your issues are related to those but...

 

Hormones are all connected and it doesn't make any sense to try fixing an issue without paying attention to the cause of it.

 

If your thyroid doesn't work as it should you are going nowhere doesn't matter how hard you try.

 

Do what i told you: check you basal temperature, it is not that taxing isn't it?

 

Dim, zinc, magnesium, cruciferous, avoid soy... and the list can go on and on... are all things that might help but if the underlying cause is not removed you are just wasting your time because it will lead nowhere.  

 

Lets check if the car has got a good engine first and take care about the mag wheels later on, would we?

[Qowpel]

Ok then but won't my basal temp differ if I use a blanket vs not using one while I sleep. What would be a good reading that we are looking for?

[Qowpel]

Also maybe my thyroid is not screwed because when I take high doses of zinc my libido increases a ton and I become more competitive which leads me to think that things are reacting the way they should... At least to zinc. Is that a good sign of meaningless?

[aconita]

Since mammals are warm blooded creatures their temperature is self regulated and relatively independent from external factors (if they are not too extreme, of course, in which case death usually occurs).

 

I would not define a blanket an extreme factor therefore I may state that it doesn't really matter much.

 

As I wrote the basal temperature has to be at least 36,5.

 

You must take it without moving as soon as your eyes opens, just reach with your arm for the thermometer strategically placed besides your bed.

[Qowpel]

Ok. In the case it is higher or lower than 36.5 C. what will that indicate?

[aconita]

If it is lower it means your temperature self regulating system is not working as it should, since it strongly depends by thyroid it means your thyroid may have issues, in which case further action has to be considered.

 

It is just that blood test don't necessarily show thyroid issues and basal temperature is a reliable indicator, or at least a possible warning indicator, that the blood test missed something.

 

I other words most thyroid issues are totally missed by conventional blood tests and it is worth to spend the 5 minutes it takes to perform a basal temperature test in order to make sure.    

[Qowpel]

My temp this morning was 97.9 Fahrenheit so no problem there

[aconita]

Cool, that should rule out thyroid issues.

 

I suggest you to take your temperature in the same way for a few more days anyway, just in case.

 

Hormones are tricky....

 

In your case rising testosterone may lead to more conversion in estrogen worsening the situation, but low testosterone is not good and represent a problem.

 

I may suggest an easy approach to see what happens.

 

Struggle to get at least 8 hours of good quality sleep each night, 10 hours would be better, 1-3mg melatonin coupled with 300-500mg theanine before sleep may help, chamomile too is a good choice.

 

Manage stress at your best since stress rises cortisol and cortisol is antagonist to testosterone.

 

As training avoid long cardio and focus more on short intense workouts (max 60-90 minutes), lower reps and higher loads (you might try 5x3, even 5x2 can work wonders), compound movements (squat, bench, press, deadlift, rows), if you really can't live without cardio go for a couple of Tabatas of your choice a week (burpees are great).

 

A post workout shake (40g whey protein + 120g maltodextrines or dextrose or a mix of the two) will stop cortisol on its tracks and is highly recommended especially in your case.

 

Avoid any soy and soy by products, indulge on cruciferous veggies, onions, ginger, good fats, consider a DIM supplement, ashwagandha, grape seeds, epilobium parviflorum, chamomile, turmeric and many more plants are known to inhibit in a way or another aromatase or its action, the enzyme responsible for testosterone to estrogen conversion.

 

Leave drugs as a very last resource and preferably only under medical supervision.

 

[Qowpel]

Cool, that should rule out thyroid issues.

I suggest you to take your temperature in the same way for a few more days anyway, just in case.

Hormones are tricky....

In your case rising testosterone may lead to more conversion in estrogen worsening the situation, but low testosterone is not good and represent a problem.

I may suggest an easy approach to see what happens.

Struggle to get at least 8 hours of good quality sleep each night, 10 hours would be better, 1-3mg melatonin coupled with 300-500mg theanine before sleep may help, chamomile too is a good choice.

Manage stress at your best since stress rises cortisol and cortisol is antagonist to testosterone.

As training avoid long cardio and focus more on short intense workouts (max 60-90 minutes), lower reps and higher loads (you might try 5x3, even 5x2 can work wonders), compound movements (squat, bench, press, deadlift, rows), if you really can't live without cardio go for a couple of Tabatas of your choice a week (burpees are great).

A post workout shake (40g whey protein + 120g maltodextrines or dextrose or a mix of the two) will stop cortisol on its tracks and is highly recommended especially in your case.

Avoid any soy and soy by products, indulge on cruciferous veggies, onions, ginger, good fats, consider a DIM supplement, ashwagandha, grape seeds, epilobium parviflorum, chamomile, turmeric and many more plants are known to inhibit in a way or another aromatase or its action, the enzyme responsible for testosterone to estrogen conversion.

Leave drugs as a very last resource and preferably only under medical supervision.

Out of curiosity why does whey protein stop cortisol

[Qowpel]

Also having more than 100 grAms of carbs bloats me worse for many days
Also from what I hear script aromatase inhibitors eradicate water retention

[aconita]

Insulin is a very strong cortisol antagonist, whey protein with its high aminoacids content will rise insulin , the added carbs wil do so even more, of course.

 

Immediately after an intense workout it should not bloat you too much if at all.

 

Aromatase inhibitors eradicate water retention because almost eradicate estrogen which are the main cause of water retention.

 

All estrogens have to be converted from testosterone by aromatase.

 

How much do you weight and what is your fat percentage?

[Qowpel]

Can't get body fat below fifteen percent without tta 500 along with reduce ft and hiit. Then my body fat gets around 13.5 percent at its very lowest. I am getting very tired of this and the lack of confidence that comes with it. I am getting very close to ordering arimidex because I want to stop the bloat and give my body the effect of being Able to burn the estrogenic fat stores I have. This is damn ridiculous.

[Qowpel]

Oh and great I just spent the last two days drinking a bit more water than usual along with my daily diuretic dandelion and rather than shedding more water my specifically subcutaneous bloat is way more than usual especially since I always get these weird creases below my pectorals that look like fine lines created by too much bloating. I only see these when I have max amount of subcutaneous bloat. I increased water, I took my dandelion, I increased potassium and fucking now it is worse. I am about to order the arimidex because I am so fucking tired of this

[Qowpel]

Oh and great I just spent the last two days drinking a bit more water than usual along with my daily diuretic dandelion and rather than shedding more water my specifically subcutaneous bloat is way more than usual especially since I always get these weird creases below my pectorals that look like fine lines created by too much bloating. I only see these when I have max amount of subcutaneous bloat. I increased water, I took my dandelion, I increased potassium and fucking now it is worse. I am about to order the arimidex because I am so fucking tired of this

 

By the way I am saying about to, but of course I will be waiting another few weeks. I do not know why I would suggest this. But even though I NEVER drink or smoke, would milk thistle SOMEHOW help with retention at all?

[Qowpel]

Insulin is a very strong cortisol antagonist, whey protein with its high aminoacids content will rise insulin , the added carbs wil do so even more, of course.

Immediately after an intense workout it should not bloat you too much if at all.

Aromatase inhibitors eradicate water retention because almost eradicate estrogen which are the main cause of water retention.

All estrogens have to be converted from testosterone by aromatase.

How much do you weight and what is your fat percentage?

[Qowpel]

I weigh 144 and have a huge amount of visceral fat like a beer belly no matter how low I get my subcutaneous fat. And yeah man

[aconita]

Have you seen an endocrinologist?

 

You definitely have got hormonal issues that should be properly addressed, buying some arimidex, maybe on the black market and just taking it may make thing worse and likely dangerous.

 

I strongly suggest you a medical supervision because messing around with hormones is not a smart choice.

 

One thing is the steroid user where the side effects are well known as are the countermeasures to be taken (not that it would be an healthy thing to do but at least more or less you know where you are heading for), a different matter is an hormonal imbalance that need to treated as a pathology.

 

Do by any means all the above (nutrition, exercise) but seek medical advise if it will not suffice and you decide to try the drugs solution.

 

 

[Qowpel]

Have you seen an endocrinologist?

 

You definitely have got hormonal issues that should be properly addressed, buying some arimidex, maybe on the black market and just taking it may make thing worse and likely dangerous.

 

I strongly suggest you a medical supervision because messing around with hormones is not a smart choice.

 

One thing is the steroid user where the side effects are well known as are the countermeasures to be taken (not that it would be an healthy thing to do but at least more or less you know where you are heading for), a different matter is an hormonal imbalance that need to treated as a pathology.

 

Do by any means all the above (nutrition, exercise) but seek medical advise if it will not suffice and you decide to try the drugs solution.

 

So, again I upped my potassium and dandelion dosage and kept electrolytes in check and very low sodium. Yet the retention will NOT go away. In fact, upon drinking more water, my bloat (subcutaneous) has become so bad that taking off my socks , shoes, and shirt left creases that were several millimeters deep and I mean deep ones, obviously meaning edema. And I ordered a saliva test for test and estrogen it is almost here. I also ordered aromasin 30, 25 mg tablets from riverpharmacy.ca  A very reliable one. I have gotten Viagra from there as well as minipress (for my prostate inflammation and bladder issues) and they were both very real and legitimate so I will be getting the real stuff no doubt

[aconita]

Arousal, prostate, bladder. water retention, abdominal fat issues....

 

And of course very little drive, low energy, maybe even depression....

 

That is all high estrogen and low testosterone.

 

Again, this is a serious issue, leave alone the do it yourself thing and seek qualified medical advise or you may really regret it!

[kurdishfella]

High dose Vitamin B3 can get rid of water because your body uses up water to flush it out.