26 replies to this topic

[HelpMeOut]

Hello everyone! I am a 23 year old male from Germany and I'll tell you my story now:


2013:
August:
Due to martial arts (MMA), I suffered from a inguinal hernia.

December:
Surgery to fix the inguinal hernia. 2 weeks later, I had a peptic peptic ulcer from
diclofenac which I had to take post-surgery. Due to nerve damage from the surgery and
pain from the peptic ulcer (worst pain in my life, like a knife stabbing me), I was put
on tilidine. Tilidine is an opioid well-known in Germany.

 

 

2014:
January:
Right shoulder started to hurt. Tilidine was continued until May.

May:
Shoulder MRI showed a broken acromion that didn't heal. I was prescribed
Targine (Oxycodone CR + Naloxone) 20mg twice a day. The doctor didn't want to
do a surgery yet because he said conservative therapy might help.

July:
I was heavily depressed because I had pain in my SI joint, nerve pain due to the
hernia surgery and a broken shoulder that didn't heal. So I started smoking weed on
a regular basis.

October:
I ran out of weed. I decided to order herbal blends (synthetic cannabinoids). I smoked
them regulary until January 2015.

November:
I opened my own business and made a lot of money. I was highly stressed because I didn't
know I would get so much customers over night and got over-excited because I literally went

from poor (unable to work due to my physical problems) to wealthy. I made my dream come

true buying a mustang car. This is the only thing that's left in my life that's making me happy

because I always dreamed of it. Sure, it's nothing too luxury, but I was growing up with an

American step-father and always loved this car.

December:
I felt the pain got worse eventhough I was taking 40-60mg targine a day

(opioid-induced hyperalgesia?). So I decided to take buprenorphine which I

got from a junky friend.  I took a 8mg pill at once and I felt like I was flying

two hours later. Possibly strongly overdosed, but one of the greatest highs

ever. Unbelievable... Since then I was regulary sniffing 0,2-0,4mg buprenorphine

on and off. When I ran out of it, I switched back to targine or hydromorphone

(which was prescriped to me at that time because targine stopped working).

Hydromorphone didn't help much either. At this time, I also began suffering from

tinnitus and neck pain.



2015:
January:

I smoked a salvia extract for the first time in my life which resulted in a horrible

experience. I had a whole body cramp, my vision turned black and my heart-rate

got up to 200 beats a minute. My brain felt like being in tornado.

The horror trip only lasted 2 minutes, but since then I nearly stopped all drug

use. I stopped smoking herbal blends after that panic attack and only did weed

ocassionally (which triggered panic attacks as well, but I always took 0,5mg

xanax when it happened).

February:
I was heavily abusing opioids. Some days I took crushed targin pills, some days I sniffed hydromorphone

and sometimes I sniffed buprenorphine.

!!! At this time I developed Depersonalization and Derealization !!!

March:
Because I still had nerve pain in my groin, the doctor detected another hernia on the
other site, so I got surgery the same month. After surgery, I was heavily fatigued
and my Derealization was stronger than ever.

April:
I decided to get surgery for my shoulder, too. After surgery, I was unable to sleep for
3 days in a row due to the heavy pain when laying down. I took huge amounts of targin
and the days later buprenorphine. At the same time, I heavily smoked weed, trying to get some sleep.

After 3 days, I finally was able to sleep. But when I woke up, everything changed. I woke
up feeling very drunk. My vision was jittery, I had geometric shapes in my vision and
very strong visual static. I also had the feeling that I would faint with some sort of
"electrical buzz" in my forehead occuring every 30s. I paniced and always took a deep breath
because I thought I was going to die. After hours of anxiety, visual distortions, a weird
brain feeling and feeling faint, I was put to the emergency room. They did an EEG and a blood
test to rule out a buprenorphine overdose. Everything came back normal. They wanted me to stay
but I decided to go home. Once I was at home, I still had this weird "electrical/vibrating" feeling
in my forehead that only lasted for 1-2 seconds but occured frequently. It's the same feeling
like when you are very tired and falling into microsleep. Did this happen because I wasn't taking a

break between targin and buprenorphine? Did the buprenorphine cause a sudden withdrawal and

deplete my brain's dopamine?

Since that day, I am suffering from several neurological and psychological problems:
- visual snow
- derealization and depersonalization
- panic attacks
- anxiety

- brain fog
- depression
- dysphoria
- overstimulation from lights and sounds
- sound sensitivity
- light sensitivity
- vibrating/jittery vision
- some texture patterns vibrate
- halos
- trails
- no 3D perception anymore
- no perspectivity in life anymore
- absolutely no joy

- everything sounds different than before (a little bit muffled)

- I don't smell things like I used to do (for example the summer flower air outside, it's just air now...)

I wasn't able to go to stores anymore because sounds, lights and all the people caused a feeling of
fainting. It's like I was overwhelmed by every stimulation. The only way I was able to go out was
taking valium or xanax. I also felt like I was always hyperventilating chronically (yawning and sighing
often, the feeling not being able to catch my breath when in public situations).
Because I was always worried about what was going on, I read that too much glutamate and too little GABA
can be the cause of being overwhelmed by sounds, lights and movement of people. I also have chronic neck
tightness which makes the symptoms even worse because sometimes when my muscles in the neck cramp

it feels like I am being choked and not enough blood is reaching my brain.

May 2015:
Since May, I am using benzos everyday and stopped opioids until December 2015.
I started with xanax and valium.

September 2015:
I was put on clonazepam, which I take until today. First, I was taking 0,5mg.

I reached 4mg a day at my peak and now I am down at 0,75mg - 1,5mg, depending

on the day. When I know I have to go out where a lot people are, I take more before

leaving the house because the last time I didn't do it the overstimulation made me feel

dizzy and fainting again.

 

October 2015:

My girlfriend just vanished from one day to another because she couldn't handle me

anymore. I was tired all the time, had no emotions and wasn't able to go out with her

due heavy fatigue from the medications and anxiety. This caused a great shock because

I thought she understood my illness.

 

December 2015:

My 13 year old dog who suffered from a heart disease and epileptic seizures had to be

put asleep because his body was filled with water more and more and medications didn't

work anymore. This was the saddest day in my life and another loss...

 

2016:
As stated above, I still take clonazepam and sometimes a small amount of valium (for muscle spasm in
my neck). I also tried pregabalin but this has caused horrible feelings. I had much worse depersonalization
and felt very fatigued and depressed. Due to my neck spasm, I have received a special splint for my
jaw because I was diagnosed with a heavy TMJ disorder.

4 weeks ago, a neurotransmitter and stress hormone test was done using urine and saliva. I know
many people say this tests are useless, but the doctor who made it has helped alot of people
here in Germany with all kinds of diseases (CFS, depression, fibromyalgia, etc.). I've read there is a

relationship between the neurotransmitters in the urine and the central nervous system, correct me if I

am wrong.

My test results:
Adrenaline: 2,5 (4-10 normal) DEFICIENT
Noradrenaline: 10 (32-58 normal) DEFICIENT
Dopamine: 25 (90-220 normal) BIGGEST DEFICIENCY!
Serotonine: 105 (148-230 normal) DEFICIENT
GABA: 3,99 (1,5-6,8 normal) NORMAL - I take Benzos, it's possible that without them I would lack GABA, too.
Glutamate: 34 (8-25 normal) TOO MUCH
Cortisol morning:  2,4 (2,5-10,8 normal) DEFICIENT
Cortisol afternoon: 0,57 (0,7-3,5 normal) DEFICIENT
Cortisol evening: 0,21 (0,1-1,0 normal) NORMAL


At the time the test was done, I was taking 1mg clonazepam and 150mg pregabalin. Without those
medications, my glutamate would be even higher and my GABA would be deficient, too, my doc said.

The doctor said it's very unlikely to see such low dopamine levels.

To me, the test is valid because of the way I feel:
- Low adrenaline, noradrenaline and cortisol: bad stress handling, avoidance of stressful situations
- Low dopamine: jittery vision, dysphoria, slightly jittery hands and head
- Low serotonine: not feeling well, depressed, problems sleeping without medication
- High glutamate: overstimulation, running thoughts 24/7, nerve pain, feeling faint in crowded places
- When not taking benzos (low GABA): feeling anxious and worried, muscle spasm, nervousity, panic attacks

Supplements I am taking and  which I stopped (recommended by my doctor):
- N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine for dopamine, noradrenaline and adrenaline
- N-Acetyl-L-Cystein for neuroprotection from too much glutamate and detox
- OPC for detox
- Vitamine C for several benefits
- folic acid
- 5 HTP: STOPPED. Headache, depression, negative thoughts. Almost same side-effects like SSRIs for me
- Vitamine B6
- Taurine and Magnesium for mild NMDA-antagonism

I am not feeling better yet. 5-HTP made me feel worse and I also have a problem with NAC. It seems
to make me feel kinda spaced out, especially when I take high doses (2,4g over the day). I have read
that it could be due to the detox and the toxins entering the blood stream.

I also tried Huperzine A for NMDA-antagonism but it doesn't make me feel good.

 

I do have a problem with my actual medication:

The clonazepam helps me with all the anxiety problems. I still suffer from depersonalization, visual snow,
muscle spasm and sometimes overstimulation, but not to the extend of feeling passing out. With clonazepam,
I have more control over my breathing patterns and I think that my chronic hyperventilation has contributed
to my actual situation. My CO2 and O2 test done by a cardiologist turned out bad and I also had a negative
T-wave, eventhough my heart is healthy. I have been told it's due to chronic hyperventilation (CO2 lowers,
blood vessels constrict, less oxygen reaches brain and organs). I also had strong sternum pain until I noticed

that I am a chest breather (mainly due to the fact that I was wearing a shoulder-arm sling for 8 weeks that was

very tight around my belly, forcing me to breath through my chest). I got rid of that breathing 3 weeks ago.

The clonazepam makes me feel horribly empty and depressed, though. I am also very fatigued all the time and

even with small dosages I feel like taking a nap almost everyday. I also lack any motivation. I feel like an empty shell.

Since last december, I ocasionally use opioids again (only tilidine or targine). They have a mixed feeling for me.
I feel energy, motivation, sometimes even joy in life again. But it also makes the overstimulation worse. One month
ago I was visiting a convention with my girlfriend and that morning I only took a very small dosage of valium (2mg)

and 10mg targine. When we reached the place with all the people, I felt like everything around me was moving too

fast and I couldn't filter the sounds and movements around me. Before I suffered from all this problems, I have never

been bothered by other people talking or moving, I could just "filter" it out. But now I am overwhelmed in situations like

this because I can hear everyone talking. It seems my brain's filter system is damaged. At that day, it was also incredibly

sunny and the light sensitivity made it even worse. After popping a 0,5mg clonazepam (I wouldn't advice anyone to mix

opioids with benzos if you don't have a tolerance!), I felt better after half an hour. Is targine indirectly lowering GABA

by increasing dopamine? Lower GABA means higher glutamate, or am I wrong?

I do not know what to do to get me out of this situation. I am already trying to get off the benzos (which I will manage if
I continue tappering like this). But I am afraid that my glutamate will be sky-high when I do not longer take it.

I have lost the ability to work. I went from zero to hero and to zero again. This is the worst side-effect of my illness. I worked

so hard for my business and since my girlfriend left me in October 2015, I couldn't work anymore. The fatigue was too

strong and I had to close my shop. I was on the way of leading a wealthy life - something I could have never dreamed of

because I didn't grow up in a wealthy family. And due to this neurological problems, I have lost everything I have put up.

I am even in debt (tax) and they are about to take away my car. So I do not only have health worries but also existential fears

that in turn make my psychological problems even worse. It's a circulus vitiosus I can't escape. I can't sleep well anymore

as well because I think about how to solve my financial and health issues all night. I am completly desperate.

The only days I feel happy and less worried are the days where I take opioids, especially targine. It makes me feel motivated

and alive again, eventhough it makes me feel spaced out a bit which worsens my depersonalization which also increases anxiety.

In dimmed rooms, my visual disturbances are stronger as well because everything looks a bit like a gloom effect and when

coming from outside (when it is sunny) into my dark apartment, I can barely see because my eyes take so long to adjust to

the darkness.

 

I have read that the main metabolite of tilidine, nortilidine, is a NMDA-antagonist and dopamine-agonist. Shouldn't this be helpful

managing my low dopamine and high glutamate levels? Or will it worsen brain chemistry long-term? Some opioids overactivate

NMDA-receptors when used for a prolonged time as far as I know (which can result in opioid-induced hyperalgesia). But it seems

tilidine is different than other opioids in that term.

 

 

Following tests have been done to rule out diseases:

- MRI of the neck, brain and heart

- Blood test (a little bit low vitamine D)

- Lyme LTT test (slightly positive, but nothing to worry about my doctor said)

- Organ check

- Eye exams

- Thyroid check

 

All tests came back fine, except a slight vitamine D deficiency and a positive LTT Lyme test (anti-genes are only a little bit elevated).

 

 

The symptoms that bother me the most when I am not anxious due to clonazepam:

- visual snow & tinnitus

- neck tightness

- depersonalization/derealization

- dysphoria

 

 

Now, to all experts on this forum and the people who may have suffered from similar symptoms and recovered:

 

 

- What supplements/medications should I try?

- What do you think is wrong with my brain chemistry?

- What's the possible cause of my symptoms?

- Is there anything I have missed to get checked out by a doctor?

 

 

To those of you who have read this - thank you for your patience. And excuse my English if some sentences are grammatically wrong. It's not my mother language.
 

[pro-v]

I'm not a doc or expert but many people have went through what you are going through and made it through! From what I've seen, it takes a lot of time(a year or 2 in some cases) and abstinence from opiods/other drugs, combined with a healthy lifestyle to get back on track. If you go the abstinence route, be sure to safely taper off meds under your doctors supervision.

 

- What supplements/medications should I try?

Possibly memantine or lithium

 

- What do you think is wrong with my brain chemistry?

Glutamate Spillover. Down regulation of opiod/gaba/cannabinoid systems.

 

 

- What's the possible cause of my symptoms?

See above

 

- Is there anything I have missed to get checked out by a doctor?

Testosterone/iron/b12

[Londonscouser]

I would recommend memantine, and suggest addition of l-theanine to your stack

[HelpMeOut]

Hello you two. Thanks for your answers and the patience reading my thread. Always nice to see that there are still people in this world that are willing to help without getting anything back.

 

@pro-v: Could you explain Glutamate spillover? I have only read scientific textes in English about it and I do not really get what it means. Can you explain it in own words if you don't mind? My testosterone is a little bit elevated, so is my DHEA. Iron is a good idea, I am supplementing it now. Vitamin B12 is a little bit too high as well.

Memantine sounds interesting, eventhough many people who suffer from depersonalization had a worsening of the spaced-out feeling from it. But I think I should give it a try. Unluckily, it's a rx medication in Germany. So I need to find a way to convince my doctor to test it on me.

 

@Londonscouser: My doctor also recommended L-Theanine. So I am glad you reminded me.

 

I do have two more questions. Since it seems I have too much glutamate and too little GABA, as benzodiazepines help me with anxiety, breathing more slowly and reduces oversensitivity to lights and noises, but at the same time they make me emotionally numb and depressed, I am wondering about adding following medications while slowly tappering off the rest of my clonazepam (at the moment I am at 1mg again, planing to reduce by 1mg per week).

 

- Tilidine (opioid): the main metabolit is nortilidine, which is a NMDA-antagonist and dopamine-agonist. Doesn't this lead to less glutamate and more dopamine, which is desireable for my situation? Or will the increase in dopamine indirect.y inhibit GABA and therefore increasing glutamate again?

- Creatine: studies showed that creatine reduces the excitatory activity of glutamate in the brain. Worth a try?

- St. Johns Wort: hyperforin contained in St. Johns Wort seems to be a GABA-reuptake-inhibitor. St. Johns Wort also seems to increase dopamine and serotonine, but I have read that it also increases glutamate. Other sites say it's a NDMDA-antagonist, so I am really confused. Shall I take it if I suffer from too much glutamate or not?

 

And what about NAC? I read so many different things about it. Some say it raises glutamine, some say it protects from too much glutamine firing. What's the real deal? Shall I take it or not?

 

 

I hope someone can answer those questions.

 

 

 

[sativa]

I think glutamate spillover might result in over activation of glutamate receptors which can be very very unpleasant, magnesium is the bodies natural defense against this.

Other NMDA antagonists include:

Magnesium
Zinc (also a dopamine reuptake inhititor)
Apigenin (chamomile, paraley. Also a benzodiazepine receptor agonist)
Agmatine (has many other properties including 5-HT2A, imidazoline, alpha 7 nicotinic)

As I understand it, NAC promotes dopamine and NMDA receptor activation (aside from being a precursor to gluthionine). I occasionally use it for an extra energy boost.

Prolactin levels *might* also be a factor in all of this - it has an inverse relationship with dopamine. I occasionally take vitamin E as it lowers prolactin. Zinc and B6 also have this effect (any dopaminergics will affect prolactin)

Regarding GABA, benzodiazepines/GABA agonists are - from what I gather - a short term solution which can cause serious problems in the long run, if a proper approach to mitigate GABA receptor down regulation is not undertaken...especially considering your already low GABA levels.

Lemon balm might be a good option as it contains an inhibitor of GABA transaminase, an enzyme that breaks down GABA.

Valerian *might* be of use to you, it contains valerenic acid which modulates GABAa receptors.

Valerenic acid potentiates and inhibits GABAA receptors: molecular mechan-
ism and subunit specificity

VA was identified as a subunit specific allosteric modulator of GABAa receptorswhich is likely to interact with the loreclezole binding pocket.
...
Our study opens the perspective that the proposed sedative, hypnotic and anxiolytic effects suggested for Valerian may be caused by interaction of VA with GABAa channels

Other papers:

Valeriana officinalis root extracts have potent anxiolytic effects in
laboratory rats
-
Valerian extract and
valerenic acid are partial agonists of the 5-HT5a receptor invitro

Also worth mentioning is lavander essential oil. It has a noticeable calming effect which is predominantly due to linalool which has GABA activity. Lavander might also have potential NMDA antagonsism.

Lemongrass oil contains Mycrene which is a potent sedative which likely works via GABA receptors.

Frankincense and myrrh oils both have significant calming potential with myrrh having some opioid properties too.

(Today I added 4 drops of pure frankincense essential oil to a capsule of guarana seed to take the edge of the stimulation. I'd also taken 500mg phenylalanine and vitamin E)

[sativa]

(Double post)

Edited by sativa, 05 April 2016 - 07:09 PM.

[airplanepeanuts]

You opened your own business got rich, bought a mustang in a single month while smoking synthetic cannabinoids and battling with all kinds of health issues?

 

Pretty impressive...

[Londonscouser]

Hello you two. Thanks for your answers and the patience reading my thread. Always nice to see that there are still people in this world that are willing to help without getting anything back.

 

@pro-v: Could you explain Glutamate spillover? I have only read scientific textes in English about it and I do not really get what it means. Can you explain it in own words if you don't mind? My testosterone is a little bit elevated, so is my DHEA. Iron is a good idea, I am supplementing it now. Vitamin B12 is a little bit too high as well.

Memantine sounds interesting, eventhough many people who suffer from depersonalization had a worsening of the spaced-out feeling from it. But I think I should give it a try. Unluckily, it's a rx medication in Germany. So I need to find a way to convince my doctor to test it on me.

 

@Londonscouser: My doctor also recommended L-Theanine. So I am glad you reminded me.

 

I do have two more questions. Since it seems I have too much glutamate and too little GABA, as benzodiazepines help me with anxiety, breathing more slowly and reduces oversensitivity to lights and noises, but at the same time they make me emotionally numb and depressed, I am wondering about adding following medications while slowly tappering off the rest of my clonazepam (at the moment I am at 1mg again, planing to reduce by 1mg per week).

 

- Tilidine (opioid): the main metabolit is nortilidine, which is a NMDA-antagonist and dopamine-agonist. Doesn't this lead to less glutamate and more dopamine, which is desireable for my situation? Or will the increase in dopamine indirect.y inhibit GABA and therefore increasing glutamate again?

- Creatine: studies showed that creatine reduces the excitatory activity of glutamate in the brain. Worth a try?

- St. Johns Wort: hyperforin contained in St. Johns Wort seems to be a GABA-reuptake-inhibitor. St. Johns Wort also seems to increase dopamine and serotonine, but I have read that it also increases glutamate. Other sites say it's a NDMDA-antagonist, so I am really confused. Shall I take it if I suffer from too much glutamate or not?

 

And what about NAC? I read so many different things about it. Some say it raises glutamine, some say it protects from too much glutamine firing. What's the real deal? Shall I take it or not?

 

 

I hope someone can answer those questions.

 

While i quit drugs for a few months, i used to go gym about 4 or 5 times a week, and i would drink a bottle of water containing creatine on the way to the gym, and during the walks, i always noticed a had some sort of temporary effect from creatine consumption...can't really explain it tbh

 

With that suggestion of L-theanine, i would also probably suggest taurine.

I'm also a bit confused about NAC

 

Sooner you get of benzos, the better

[sativa]

Taurine has GABAb properties I think, but it has many beneficial properties.

Theanine activates BDNF amongst other things. I take it before bed and wake up feeling super refreshed.

Creatine has 5-HT1A properties I think.

[birthdaysuit]

Taurine has GABAb properties I think, but it has many beneficial properties.

Theanine activates BDNF amongst other things. I take it before bed and wake up feeling super refreshed.

Creatine has 5-HT1A properties I think.

 

I remembering reading that creatine had affinity at the 5ht2a levels and/or it was an antagonist of either 2a or 1a. Not sure, but creatine cured my social anxiety. I tried everything and creatine and low-dose vitamin D cured me of dullness, fatigue and emotional instability. My Lyme still fucks me up but its been a big help.
 

[HelpMeOut]

Hello.

 

Thanks for all your posts. I appreciate every information. This forum is full of knowledge, I am amazed.

 

 

 

My reason I think my dopamine and noradrenaline receptors are burnt out:

 

I have abused opioids for more than 1,5 years and had sex several times a day for 3 years (my girlfriend was sex-addicted) which, I think, led to dopamine receptor burnout. I also overworked myself because the business I started was so successful over night that I wasn't prepared  for all the work and stressed myself too much. I also became obsessed with money and materialism, which I never was before. I used to be a minimalist. The compulsive thoughts about making more and more money and what to do with it put didn't make my situation better.

 

 

Symptoms I think low dopamine is the cause for:

 

- sex doesn't feel "good" anymore. It's more like an autopilot thing, just like taking a shower.

 

- Errectile Dysfunction. I need much more stimulation to get an errection. Things that used to work don't work anymore to get me going.

 

- no joy in life

 

- visual snow (also a symptom of morbus parkinson, where dopamine production is low)

 

- depersonalization and derealization

 

- concentration problems

 

- jittery vision (very very mild nystagmus, no one can see it though)

 

- light tremors

 

 

 

I have read something interesting about my visual disturbances:

 

It seems that retinal noise can be confused with visual snow and the cause for retinal noise and background noise seems to be a dopamin-related problem:

 

"Animal studies suggest that a basic mechanism of action of dopamine is the reduction of non stimulus-driven neural activity or noise"

 

(Full article: http://www.ncbi.nlm....es/PMC4333120/)

 

 

I took tilidine 4 days ago (an opioid) whose main metabolism is nortilidine (NMDA-antagonist and dopamine-agonist) because I thought increasing dopamine with that opioid would be a good idea to fight my anhedonia and dysphoria. It helps me to get more motivated, makes me a little bit euphoric and more chatty. However: In the past, opioids always made me feel awesome. I was relaxed, happy, not anxious, not worried. Now, when I take opioids, I feel dizzy, lightheaded, I have more visual disturbances (rooms with normal lights seem slightly dimmed and like a bloom effect), I feel sensory overload and tend to hyperventilate when I am in public because sounds, lights and motions make me feel lightheaded and I slightly panic). Why did I always feel good on opioids in the past and now they make me feel so weird? Except more  motivation and a little euphoria, I feel much more anxious when I take them because my whole perception changes (sounds, vision, feelings). What neurotransmitters are responsible for the reason that I used to feel good on opioids in the past and now I feel more anxious?
And how can I upregulate my dopamine receptors naturally? I already told my girlfriend that I will take a sex break for 90 days because
my visual disturbances and my overall well-being is always worse after sex.

 

 

 

Now I am wondering what to do. For the last two days I took new supplements and medications (marked green) in order to increase my GABA and lower my glutamate, which is another imbalance I suffer from. However, I didn't feel good the last two days:

 

- Clonazepam 0,5mg

- Valerian Root

- Magnesium

- Zinc

- L-Taurine

- L-Tryptophan

- Passion Flower

- Lyrica

- N-Acetyl-L-Cystein

- Kava Kava

- N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine

 

 

It seems everytime I take NAC, my symptoms are worse. I feel more sensory overload in public, I feel more anxious, my stomach feels weird

and I am very light sensitive. Derealization is also sky-high. I feel overall very sick. Is it possible increasing glutamate?!

 

Passion Flower and Kava Kava... I can't really tell their effects. Maybe a bit more drowsy, but nothing positive. L-Taurine seems to have no positive effect either, it tends to make me feel more anxious.

 

Lyrica is by far the worst medication. I already tried it in the past and thought it might be a good idea to combine it with a small dosage of

clonazepam and other supplements that help GABA. But it made everything worse. It made my visual symptoms worse, increased my brain

fog and I feel very lightheaded on it. I thought the theory that it converts glutamate to GABA helps. But it didn't.

 

After all, the two last days were absolutely horrible. I was depressed, had no motivation to do anything, felt drowsy, tired and suffered from

sensory overload again when I was shopping yesterday. It feels like I can hear every person and sound in the mall and when I turn around

or too many people move it seems like my eyes can't process what's happening fast enough and I am so overwhelmed by it that I start to

tense up and feel lightheaded.

 

Now I am wondering what supplements are wrong in the list. When I only took clonazepam (3-4mg a day) I didn't feel anxious. I only had

visual snow, derealization (mainly caused by visual snow), sleepyness and depression. Did I decrease the dosage too fast? In November

I was on 3,5mg, now I am on 0,5-1mg, depending on the day.

 

 

I also see no benefits of taking following NMDA-antagonists:

- Huperzine A makes me feel weird,

- magnesium and zinc doesn't make a difference (I even feel worse on magnesium, I don't know why)

- nortilidine (metabolist of tilidine) doesn't get rid of my problems

- Kava Kava makes me more tired

 

 

NMDA-antagonism neither helps with my derealization nor with my visual symptoms and my brain fog. Could the AMPA-receptors be the reason for the excess glutamate? Or any other non-NMDA-receptors?

 

I am hopeless! Nothing that I take helps me! The worst is the visual processing problem and visual snow. When I am in dimmed rooms,

I see static everywhere. This makes everything look so unreal and contributes heavily to derealization. When I am outside and it's sunny,

I can't see the static and I feel almost real. However, the visual disturbances aren't the only problem. I also suffer from anxiety, brain fog, sensory overload and neck spasms.

 

 

What can I do? I am losing my mind!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Caravaggio]

I think you stressed your body so much that you developed Pyroluria.

 

You should stop all the painkillers and opioids and try:

 

Zinc 50 mg 2x / day

P5P 50 mg 3x / day (best as combination with Riboflavin and Magneisum)

Biotin 5 mg

GLA from hemp seed oil or borage oil capsules

[HelpMeOut]

I think you stressed your body so much that you developed Pyroluria.

 

You should stop all the painkillers and opioids and try:

 

Zinc 50 mg 2x / day

P5P 50 mg 3x / day (best as combination with Riboflavin and Magneisum)

Biotin 5 mg

GLA from hemp seed oil or borage oil capsules

 

Interesting. Thank you! I will try it out.

 

Yesterday I took following:

0,5mg Clonazepam

Vitamine B6
OPC
L-Tryptophan 500mg
N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosin 300mg

Multivitamine without cooper and iron
200mcg Huperzine A
20 drops Kava Kava liquid
1x tab reduced Gluthathion 250mg

 

A hour later I went shopping in a big shoe mall with a lot of lights and colors and my whole neck tensed up, I felt disoriented, couldn't focus on one shoe because I was constantly distracted by noises, lights and colors. I popped another 0,5mg clonazepam and finally felt relief after 30 minutes.

 

Now what I think what contributes to my problems are high levels of acetylcholine. I googled up the symptoms and it seems sensory overload, muscle stiffness, jaw tension and bruxism is all linked to high levels of acetylcholine (and partly glutamate.).

 

When I drink a lot of green tea, I feel sensory overload as well. I always used to consume litres of green tea day in the past. Most of my symptoms look like Morbus Parkinson. Visual snow, tremors, neck stiffness, jittery vision, balance problems. Now since I have low dopamine, it's quite likely that acetylcholine is too high (so is glutamate as shown in the test).

 

I am now thinking about buying benadryl to lower acetylcholine.

 

 

 

 

[SFX]

Sorry for hijaking your thread. Stuff I consider interesting is NAC and glutamate. I suffer from heavy derealization and brain fog among others, have same issues with NAC, everytime I took it my brain fog increased. That can't be a coincidence.

 

So the question is, how to decrease glutamate? I heard somewhere glutamatergic subsystem is a frame, kind of base, often overlooked, especially when dopamine or serotonin are mentioned.

 

https://en.wikipedia.../Excitotoxicity

[sativa]

NMDA antagonists tend to induce disassociation for example ketamine, iboga and laughing gas.

NMDA agonists have a more nootropic potential. Calcium and monosodium glutamate have glutamatergic activating (exciting) properties.

Edited by sativa, 14 May 2016 - 10:26 AM.

[Kinesis]

...

 

A hour later I went shopping in a big shoe mall with a lot of lights and colors and my whole neck tensed up, I felt disoriented, couldn't focus on one shoe because I was constantly distracted by noises, lights and colors. I popped another 0,5mg clonazepam and finally felt relief after 30 minutes.

 

Now what I think what contributes to my problems are high levels of acetylcholine. I googled up the symptoms and it seems sensory overload, muscle stiffness, jaw tension and bruxism is all linked to high levels of acetylcholine (and partly glutamate.).

 

When I drink a lot of green tea, I feel sensory overload as well. I always used to consume litres of green tea day in the past. Most of my symptoms look like Morbus Parkinson. Visual snow, tremors, neck stiffness, jittery vision, balance problems. Now since I have low dopamine, it's quite likely that acetylcholine is too high (so is glutamate as shown in the test).

 

I am now thinking about buying benadryl to lower acetylcholine.

 

 

If you think you're overly cholinergic and are considering benadryl, I would suggest asking your doc about amitriptyline first.  I've taken it on and off for some thirty years for some of the same issues you describe, with good results.  Like benadryl, it's an anticholinergic and antihistaminergic drug, but also has serotonergic, noradrenergic, activity, and a number of other interesting effects as well.  Wikipedia has an excellent article on it:  https://en.wikipedia...i/Amitriptyline.  It helped me discontinue clonazepam prescribed for panic attacks. It's also one of the best meds out there for chronic musculoskeletal and neuropathic pain.  The main drawback for most people is its anticholinergic activity ... but if you want anticholinergic, that's a bonus. 

 

If you decide to try this, start low and go slow ... it's powerful stuff and too large a dose too soon can make you feel pretty out of it until you get accustomed.
 

[Grateful]

Just want to throw this out there I'm sure your doc was thorough but have you ever been checked for Lyme disease? It can manifest all of your symptoms especially if it isn't caught early on.

[normalizing]

helpmeout, sorry to bother you about this but what kind of a test is this called where it tests for dopamine, serotonin, gaba, glutamate etc? i asked my doctor to do such, he looked at me funny and could not understand saying there is no such test. i just dont understand this one either

[HelpMeOut]

Just want to throw this out there I'm sure your doc was thorough but have you ever been checked for Lyme disease? It can manifest all of your symptoms especially if it isn't caught early on.

Yes, both tests came back negative.

 

helpmeout, sorry to bother you about this but what kind of a test is this called where it tests for dopamine, serotonin, gaba, glutamate etc? i asked my doctor to do such, he looked at me funny and could not understand saying there is no such test. i just dont understand this one either

Here in Germany Dr. Bieger does this by examing your urine.



I do have a question about tilidine. In wikipedia, it says following about its metabolite nortilidine.:

 

Nortilidine^[1] is the major active metabolite of tilidine. It is formed from tilidine by demethylation in the liver. The racemate has opioid analgesic effects roughly equivalent in potency to that of morphine^[2] but virtually all of the opioid activity resides in the (1S,2R) isomer.^[3] The (1R,2S) isomer has NMDA antagonist activity. The drug also acts as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor.^[4] The reversed-ester of tilidine is also known^[5] which has almost identical properties to nortilidine.^[6]

 

I do take tilidine everyday as it improves my mood and energy. Without it, I would be completly depressed and unmotivated due to my clonazepam intake. Now, since nortilidine has NMDA antagonistic properties, do I make the clonazepam tappering worse in the long run

or does it actually help controlling excessive glutamate during benzo withdrawal?

 

Since I take clonazepam, I suffer from depressions. The first time in my life I feel empty, unmotivated and nothing brings joy anymore. Once I take tilidine, however, I start to feel "fun" again, energy and motivation. However, I am not sure if I increase the risk of seizures taking opioids during tappering.

 

I hope someone with knowledge about brain chemistry can give me advice.

[Sequoia]

helpmeout, sorry to bother you about this but what kind of a test is this called where it tests for dopamine, serotonin, gaba, glutamate etc? i asked my doctor to do such, he looked at me funny and could not understand saying there is no such test. i just dont understand this one either

Normalizing, I had a similar neurotransmitter test done via urine sample by an American company called Labrix. My psychiatrist gave me a do-it-yourself kit which I then mailed to the company. 

 

HelpMeOut, interestingly, my results were very similar to yours. Extremely high glutamate, low dopamine, GABA, and norepinephrine.

 

Before my DP/DR, I was psychologically addicted to cannabis and also used synthetic cannabis (might have caused permanent brain damage, see: http://www.huffingto...b_3534935.html) on occasion. I did try salvia once, but that was after my DP/DR had developed. When I was 18, I took psilocybin mushrooms and had a frightening out-of-body experience and a month later, two traumatic 2-CE (similar to LSD) trips shattered my psyche and cast me into a lifeless, dysphoric reality. From  these traumas, I developed PTSD, DP/DR, and something not yet mentioned here, HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder, see: https://en.wikipedia...ption_disorder)

 

I am very familiar with the visual disturbances you described and think HPPD would be well worth researching. 

 

- What supplements/medications should I try?

Supplements

SymotiX by NeuroScience is a catecholamine blend for my psychiatrist gave me for increasing my base level of dopamine along side the norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor Bupropion. Was very hopeful that this would work, but it seemed to do very little for me.

L-Theanine is the closest supplement to xanax/klonopin in my opinion and I saw great benefits for awhile. 

Fish Oil or any supplement that contains DHA and EPA. They are neuroprotective, promote neurgenesis, and may help mitigate glutamate toxicity.

 

Medications

Lamotrigine is an anticonvulsant and mood stabilizer that reduces glutamate. Highly recommend trying this one. I am currently on 150mg. It's absolutely critical that TEVA is the manufacturer. People have had very bad experiences with the others and my psychiatrist always writes, "TEVA ONLY!!!" on my prescription. It takes some patience for this one as you have to slowly titrate up in order to avoid developing a dangerous rash.

Deplin is a "medical food" and is a modified form of folate for those who have the MTHFR mutation. Folate plays a role in creating neurotransmitters and folate deficiencies (often a result of MTHFR mutation) are linked to depression and schizophrenia. My psychiatrist gave me a swab test for the mutation. I have mixed feelings about Deplin because I feel like it gives me a subtle boost, but it is expensive as few insurance companies cover it.

Naltrexone is one I just started, it's an opioid antagonist. Due to the links between high levels of opioids and depersonalization, some people have success with it. Can't tell if it'll do anything for me yet.

 

Diet

I feel like diet is commonly overlooked but can actually be a large factor in how you feel. For starters, avoid MSG like the plague. When high levels of glutamate occur, the neurotransmitter can turn into an excitotoxin, overstimulating neurons to damage or death. (apologies if you already know all this) So for those who live with a high level of glutamate, eating foods with excitotoxins like MSG and aspartame will likely make things worse. 

A low carb, ketogenic diet such as the paleo diet maybe useful in improving glutamatergic transmission. (see: http://thepaleodiet....he-paleo-diet/) And I know the gluten free diet has a hipster-fad-shroud around it but I think it warrants research. I'm not on the paleo but I have stopped eating gluten and have found my brain fog is down and I can retain information better.

Many HPPD sufferers, including myself, have sworn off caffeine due to a hypersensitivity to drugs in general. If you want the anxiolytic benefits of green tea try L-Theanine and EGCG.

 

 

- What do you think is wrong with my brain chemistry?

My understanding of brain chemistry very limited, but I will say as someone who has a trash bag full of supplements/medications in his closet that being on too many things made things a lot worse for me. Drug interactions become increasingly more complex the more you add into the equation and with few to no clinical studies done on supplements, esp. herbal, it becomes very hard to pinpoint what is what is causing what. Also the very nature of DP/DR can make you over-analytical to where you look to closely at the details (moment to moment changes in symptoms) and lose your perspective. Furthermore, DP/DR are self-perpetuating disorders that resemble a positive feedback loop, That is, the more you focus on them, the more symptoms you may notice and consequently, the worse you feel. The worse you feel, the more you ruminate on the disorders and thus, the cycle continues. For me, all my medications and supplements became part of this loop. I might be going out a limb here with this link, but being a chronic-existential-over-thinker this short Alan Watts (philosopher) clip hit me right in the chest and gave me new perspective into why things are the way they are for me.

My psychiatrist once compared glutamate and GABA to a sentence. She said glutamate is like the letters and GABA is like the spaces and punctuation that create words and make it legible. Decreasing the sheer amount of thoughts I have has been a huge area of focus for me. These practices are not for everyone but I've taken up meditation and yoga, both of which help me get in touch more with reality. The difference is subtle, but over time and after practice, I've begun to see improvements in your relationship with reality and with myself. Here's an article featuring studies on increasing GABA via yoga. https://www.psycholo...03/yoga-ba-gaba

- What's the possible cause of my symptoms?

DP/DR is a normal, transient, human response to stress & traumatic incidences. Chronic DP/DR is what happens when the switch stays "on." Unresolved trauma can sustain the chronic DP/DR and honestly, a lot of what you described sounds like PTSD. If this is the case, the trauma is effectively negating any long-term neurotransmitter changes. This is my current problem. Your best bet would be doing therapy and trying to uncover and work through painful memories/experiences. I'll also add that the roots of my maladies were in my thinking patterns and psyche to begin with. My traumatic experiences simply amplified them out to an unbearable level. I had a Catholic upbringing with an emphasis on unavoidable guilt and a cosmic fear of God. I can see my prior obsessive thought patterns and issues with self-acceptance metamorphosed in my DP/DR, HPPD, PTSD today. I would suggest to anyone with DP/DR to try ACT or DBT therapy to take back some control in your life. 

- Is there anything I have missed to get checked out by a doctor?

Maybe a MTHFR swab test.

 

 

I hope this helps someone. I haven't recovered yet but the severity of my symptoms has decreased and I am better equipped to deal with those that remain.

Sorry if this was too long of a reply, this is a culmination of five years of reading forums like these without ever joining, hahah. 

 

Best wishes to all.

[Valor5]

You think you may have Parkinson's and too much acetylcholine. Parkinson's is neurodegenerative and progressive. There is a new drug coming out for that that mixes rivastigmine with rasagiline, an ACHE-I and MAOB properties, it's called Ladostigil. As far as what I have been reading I think you have been doing a very good job at keeping on top of this. I think with a brain body experiment it can take a while to get a real result. Like at least six to eight weeks. So if you change things please consider that many things are not quick acting like benzos ECT. Things like opioids and benzos are pretty instantaneous but I feel like they are probably not the best long term solutions and when you get off them it's going to take your body probably around two months to reach a normal baseline of who or what you really are. Just opinion I could be completely off. I admire your fortitude and perseverance. Please ask for all the help that can be given you.

[HelpMeOut]

TL;DR
I abused shitty drugs for a high and now I am suffering the consequences. Oh, won't SOMEBODY help me!
Edit: Reading about the life you've lived and what sort of a person you are I just can't help but feel joy knowing you're in this situation suffering. THANK GOD. Maybe it's jealousy, knowing I've had a terrible life and did nothing to put myself in the situation, or maybe it's something else.

You check the date before posting next time. I have to disappoint you: I am feeling better than ever. It was just benzodiazepine tolerance withdrawal syndrom. Since I quitted benzos I feel great again. I even run my business again. I am sorry for you, though. Must feel bad living a terrible life without seeing light at the end of the tunnel man. Carma is a bitch.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

 

You check the date before posting next time. I have to disappoint you: I am feeling better than ever. It was just benzodiazepine tolerance withdrawal syndrom. Since I quitted benzos I feel great again. I even run my business again. I am sorry for you, though. Must feel bad living a terrible life without seeing light at the end of the tunnel man. Carma is a bitch.

 

 

Yes, I know. You whine about how horrible it is to be in a situation you put yourself in while others suffer throughout their lives for something they had no saying in. Oh, poor me, mommy! I am a loser drug addict and now there are consequences, but I can't take the consequences, I wasn't born with testicles! Waaah waah waaaah.

Reading about how you are a hypersocial and hypersexual type who abuses drugs, I can't help but to wish something even worse happens to you. Good riddance!

[HelpMeOut]

You check the date before posting next time. I have to disappoint you: I am feeling better than ever. It was just benzodiazepine tolerance withdrawal syndrom. Since I quitted benzos I feel great again. I even run my business again. I am sorry for you, though. Must feel bad living a terrible life without seeing light at the end of the tunnel man. Carma is a bitch.

Yes, I know. You whine about how horrible it is to be in a situation you put yourself in while others suffer throughout their lives for something they had no saying in. Oh, poor me, mommy! I am a loser drug addict and now there are consequences, but I can't take the consequences, I wasn't born with testicles! Waaah waah waaaah.
Reading about how you are a hypersocial and hypersexual type who abuses drugs, I can't help but to wish something even worse happens to you. Good riddance!

It seems you are suffering from brain damage. Otherwise I cannot explain why you did not understand the content of my post. Not recreational drugs made me sick. It was the benzodiazepines my doctors gave me in order to help me with my mental stress I suffered post surgery. So your whole point is invalid. I am abusing opiates every week and I have no problems anymore. The suffering I endured makes my life even more beautiful now.

[Valor5]

HelpMeOut don't listen to that idiot, hypocrite. Nobody is invincible or perfect.

[HelpMeOut]

Exactly, Valor. He seems sexually frustrated. Thanks to all the otherwise posters who thought about me and made the effort to give their advise. I love you all.

[Quaker32]

good luck with things help me out, hope it works out.