• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Can too much protien lead to Kidney Stones?


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 athanatos

  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 December 2005 - 07:00 PM


I've been researching this lately after I heard the rumor going around. My friend has an uncle who's a bodybuilder, he has pure protein meals and has a protein shake 4x a day, he has way to much probably but he works out way too much as well. My friend's uncle gets a lot of kidney stones and claims that its from the protein he takes all the time. He has had a few operations to get rid of them so that he wouldn't have to urinate them out. The sites I use to read up on it, this one for instance http://kidney.niddk....s/stonesadults/, say nothing about protein specifically, but maybe its something in the protein that causes the crystals to build up.

I have two questions.

1. Is it possible that an extreme amount of protein could cause kidney stones? If so how much (in grams)?

2. Are there any foods or supplements that might be able to help deteriorate growing kidney stones?

#2 Guest_da_sense_*

  • Lurker
  • 0

Posted 11 December 2005 - 09:16 PM

I never heard that protein itself could lead to kidney stones. But what might be possible that too much proteins puts a higher load on kidneys which in long term could increase the chance of kidney stones in those who are prone to it.
Why would you want to eat too much protein anyway?

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for NUTRITION to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 athanatos

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 December 2005 - 09:55 PM

I'm not sure, I think his uncle believes that it helps muscle growth the same way steroids would. He works out way to much, I'm surprised he hasn't ripped any of his muscles yet.

#4 Shepard

  • Member, Director, Moderator
  • 6,360 posts
  • 932
  • Location:Auburn, AL

Posted 11 December 2005 - 10:15 PM

The excess protein probably is causing a strain on his kidneys, which isn't allowing them to function at 100%, leading to stones. Of course, his intake might not be that astronomical, and there is something else at work. I wouldn't be all that concerned unless you were taking in something like 2 grams per lb. of body weight. Although, some "bodybuilders" would say that isn't enough.

#5 scottl

  • Guest
  • 2,177 posts
  • 2

Posted 11 December 2005 - 10:27 PM

Consuming large amounts of protein neither causes kidney stones, nor is a strain on your kidneys assuming they are normal.

B6, magnesium, and calcium (to bind the oxalate which makes up the most common kind of stones) can help prevent stones.

http://qualitycounts...ney_stones.html
  • Agree x 1

#6 Shepard

  • Member, Director, Moderator
  • 6,360 posts
  • 932
  • Location:Auburn, AL

Posted 11 December 2005 - 11:09 PM

Scott, what are you considering a large amount of protein? I've seen a couple of reports of people (evidence is entirely anecdotal, however) who had kidney failure from intake above 400-500 g/day for long periods of time. Granted, you hear horror stories about this kind of stuff all the time in some circles.

Also, aren't excessively high protein intakes linked to calcium deficiencies, as well as certain amino acid deficiencies....which could lead to the stones?

#7 athanatos

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 46 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 December 2005 - 11:19 PM

I'm only taking about 95 grams a day on top of what I'm normally taking in from food, I dont usually measure it but I'm guessing its only another 20 grams tops. Hopefully my kidneys will be able to deal with it.

#8 scottl

  • Guest
  • 2,177 posts
  • 2

Posted 12 December 2005 - 02:14 AM

Scott, what are you considering a large amount of protein? I've seen a couple of reports of people (evidence is entirely anecdotal, however) who had kidney failure from intake above 400-500 g/day for long periods of time. Granted, you hear horror stories about this kind of stuff all the time in some circles.

Also, aren't excessively high protein intakes linked to calcium deficiencies, as well as certain amino acid deficiencies....which could lead to the stones?



400-500 g/day? It is not easy to exceed....say 100-200 grams protein/day with food alone and you'd have to be a BB, probably on juice to want 400-500g/day (and drink a ton of protein shakes to get it). I'm skeptical that even doses that high are unsafe IF ONE STAYS HYDRATED, but that situation is totally irrelevant for 99% of people (say >95% of people on this board since some BBs are here). Too much water can literally kill one from hyponatremia, so water is dangerous, right?


"Also, aren't excessively high protein intakes linked:

>>>to calcium deficiencies,
There was old data, that this was an issue and high protein diets caused loss of calcium. I do not believe more recent evidence has supported this. Everyone needs enough calcium and I do not believe consuming large amounts of protein affects this significantly.

>>>as well as certain amino acid deficiencies....which could lead to the stones?
since protein is made up of amino acids I cannot imagine how eating large amounts of protein could lead one to be deficient in any amino acid. This does not make any sense.

For people with normal renal function, eating too much protein is just not an issue contrary to vegetarian propaganda. You can search t-mag.com or http://www.bodyrecom...ion.com/forums/ if you wish more discussion.
  • Agree x 1

#9 Shepard

  • Member, Director, Moderator
  • 6,360 posts
  • 932
  • Location:Auburn, AL

Posted 12 December 2005 - 05:52 AM

About the amino acid deficiency from huge amounts of protein, this was cited in a book I have back home. I think the general idea was that when you have a huge excess of protein, the body preferentially absorbs certain aminos first, so it wasn't able to completely digest all of them....leading to deficiencies in a long-term situation. It has been a while since I read the book, but I'll see if it references to a study or if it was just the conclusion of the author.

On the amount of protein issue, I'm sure you've read around on some of the body building sites enough to see some of the people there claiming their 400+ g/day intake. It really isn't all that difficult if you're taking in above 3200-3500 Calories or so. If you add some whey to all the water you drink throughout the day, it is even easier.

#10 hyoomen

  • Guest
  • 70 posts
  • 0

Posted 12 December 2005 - 07:20 AM

I've actually been doing quite a bit of research into some related topics over the past week to clarify my understanding of the (rather poor) assertion that consuming excessive quantities of protein can lead to osteoperosis. The correlation to the topic at hand is the belief that the digestion of protein requires an alkalizing agent to neutralize the acids, which calcium -- an extremely abundant mineral of the body utilized significantly in the human skeletal structure -- functions quite well for. As the kidneys absorb these calcium-bound acids, excessive quantities of calcium actually begin to cause kidney stones. I do apologize if my layman's description and understanding are not 100% accurate, but searching Google for details ought to clarify any concerns.

I should also note that I do not subscribe to the belief that protein consumption leads to osteoperosis or kidney stones directly -- most typically kidney stones are the result of a dietary imbalance. In the case of protein consumption for bodybuilders, a lack of proper fibrous vegetables (specifically ones high in calcium) could allow the calcium-leaching to become drastic enough. Calcium sources need to be found in foods rather than supplements to help reduce kidney stone formations. Additionally, increasing your alkalinity even slightly (with kombucha, alkalizing water, broccoli, sweet potatoes, umeboshi etc) ought to reduce your body's leaching of calcium.

Any questions or concerns?

#11 Guest_da_sense_*

  • Lurker
  • 0

Posted 12 December 2005 - 01:52 PM

I'll just comment on statement that high amount of protein do what steroids do. It simply isn't true. Hard training and increased intake of protein could lead to increase in mass and other effects similar to taking AAS, but AAS are synthetic hormones that are way more powerfull than protein intake. Taking AAS requires more protein, but more protein doesn't require AAS :)

#12 scottl

  • Guest
  • 2,177 posts
  • 2

Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:48 PM

...It's quite simple: we evolved on protein intakes in the 2.5-3.5 g/kg range, athletes have eaten shitpiles of protein for decades and there has never been a SINGLE case of kidney damage.  Any theoretical problems are only that: purely theoretical. Just make sure and stay hydrated by increasing water intake.  Unless you have kidney damage, there is no problem.

Lyle



The whole kidneys falling out with high protein intake always cracks me up.  A historical reference I like to make is the Lewis and Clark expedition ;ate shit loads of buffalo meat per their journals (around 1000g of protein a day) for years.  For sure their kidneys had to be hanging around their knees when they came back.


http://www.bodyrecom...13907#post13907
  • like x 1

#13 Shepard

  • Member, Director, Moderator
  • 6,360 posts
  • 932
  • Location:Auburn, AL

Posted 13 December 2005 - 06:18 PM

Just how much fluid intake would everyone say is "well-hydrated" for a protein intake around 1.5 g/lb? I imagine the average 350 lb. man that went on Atkins a couple of years ago relied more on 2 liter Diet Coke then a gallon of water to get him through the day. I'm not arguing on this, I'm just wondering if there is any credit whatsoever to the theory that it could be dangerous for your average person who jumps from one diet to the next.

We all know that there are all kinds of substances that are perfectly safe if used correctly. Granted, protein intake would probably be at the absolute bottom of this list among the "you'd have to have a sloped forehead to mess it up" items.

#14 scottl

  • Guest
  • 2,177 posts
  • 2

Posted 13 December 2005 - 06:32 PM

Just how much fluid intake would everyone say is "well-hydrated" for a protein intake around 1.5 g/lb? .


Same rule of thumb as everyone else. Enough fluid (obviously in divided doses) so your urine is mostly colorless (B vits excepted) and mostly ordorless.
  • Agree x 1

#15 tham

  • Guest
  • 1,406 posts
  • 498
  • Location:Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Posted 16 December 2005 - 03:59 PM

The Phyllanthus plant, also known as Chanca
Piedra, found mostly in the Hispanic countries
and tropics, apparently is a good kidney cleanser.

The Amarus and Niruri species are also potent
antiviral plants.

http://www.cfsn.com/chanca.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12599017

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12010223

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=10095174


http://betterlife.co...p?prod_id=13959

#16 DukeNukem

  • Guest
  • 2,008 posts
  • 141
  • Location:Dallas, Texas

Posted 19 December 2005 - 10:42 PM

The answer is no, excessive protein does not lead to kidney stones.

#17 ta5

  • Guest
  • 952 posts
  • 324
  • Location: 

Posted 13 April 2019 - 08:00 PM

Kidney stones: pathophysiology and medical management.

Moe OW.
Lancet. 2006 Jan 28;367(9507):333-44. Review.
PMID: 16443041

 

The association of high protein intake with propensity to stone formation is well established from epidemiological and metabolic studies, and work in animals.51–54 The following issues remain undetermined and are topics of ongoing research: (i) what components in protein other than acid are causing the hypercalciuria?; and (ii) is there a primary effect on intestinal absorption in addition to the effect on bone and kidney?

 

 

 

51. Robertson WG, Heyburn PJ, Peacock M, Hanes FA, Swaminathan R. The effect of high animal protein intake on the risk of calcium stone-formation in the urinary tract. Clin Sci 1979; 57: 285–88.

52. Curhan GC, Willett WC, Rimm EB, Stampfer MJ. A prospective study of dietary calcium and other nutrients and the risk of symptomatic kidney stones. N Engl J Med 1993; 328: 833–38.
53. Reddy ST, Wang CY, Sakhaee K, Brinkley L, Pak CY. Effect of low- carbohydrate high-protein diets on acid-base balance, stone-forming propensity, and calcium metabolism. Am J Kidney Dis 2002; 40: 265–74.
54. Amanzadeh J, Gitomer WL, Zerwekh JE, et al. Effect of high protein diet on stone-forming propensity and bone loss in rats. Kidney Int 2003; 64: 2142–49.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users