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Need some advise, possible glutamate overload.

depression anxiety glutamate brain fog melatonin

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#1 Adr1n

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 05:32 PM


Hi, I'm 28 and I've been dealing with anxiety and depression from 3-4 years now, the symptoms started like some physical and mental fatigue and evolved into cognition issues. I've been diagnosed with GAD and Depression and been treated with SSRI's and Benzos. Those two didn't work so well and I had to recover from the side effects for a long period of time. When I try to function normally, I push myself to be connected with others, to be aware of all my responsibilities, to engage with surroundings, tasks, people, etc. But it takes just a few days to feel overwhelmed to a point I just fall into depression again, like if something is building up in my system, maybe cortisol or glutamate. After some days I find myself struggling at night to sleep, and start to get symptoms that might be described as an overexcited CNS such:

 

- Can't feel calmed/safe.

- Mind is ruminating.

- Can't easily shut thoughts.

- Random memories, images, songs, thoughts pops in my consciousness. 

- Agitated Dreams, not restful sleep.

- Nerve tics in Jaw or other body parts.

 

Thanks to experience and some natural supplements I've learned to deal with these symptoms better. I can control my train of thoughts better and I can fall asleep thanks to melatonin and relaxation techniques. Still, I need something else to aid my CNS so I can deal with day to day simulations and relationships. My theory is that I'm getting too much of glutamate and my brain can't deal with it, and that excitotoxicity has been causing some of the cognitive issues. But I know it gets more complex than that, so I'm all ears.

 

So this is the list of things I've tried, so maybe someone can see a link between my symptoms and what works and what doesn't for me, and what can I try to cope with this:

 

- Excersise: Best mood lifter, but one of the worst stimulants for my brain. I feel very mentally overwhelmed after exercising. I'm currently 15-20 kg of overweight. Some meds and food habbits made gain weight but If I exercise everyday I can loose it in some months, I don't because how overexcited my brain gets after each session. So there must be some co-relation or clue here.

 

- Diet: I eat healthy most of the time. But in my weak times I add a lot of sugar and carbohydrates to it cause anxiety.

 

- Melatonin: this is the single most helpful supplement that never lets me down. It induce sleep for me and keeps me down.

- NAC: noticeabile effect helping with compulsive thoughts. Don't work all the time.

- L-theanine: This helps me calm down in case I'm very anxious. But it builds up.

- Magnesium Citrate: sometimes I get a bit of energy from it.

- Bacopa: bit anxiolytic, bit helpful for memory, not sure if placebo.

- Phenibut: Very helpful for anxiety, but I don't use it more than a day or two per week because side effects.

- Vitamin C: I take for it's antioxidant properties.
- Vitamin B: Most of them makes me more anxious.
- 5-Methyltetrahydrofolic (Methyl Folate): nothig noticeable.
- Omega 3: support for brain.
- Grapefruit seed extract: not noticeable changes.
- Blueberry extract: I take it as an antioxidant.
- Sarcosine: Subtle help with anxiety.
- GABA: didnt help.
- L-Lysine: nothig noticeable.
- Spirulina: nothing noticeable.
- Inositol: bit stimulant.
- Glycine: sometimes better sleep.
 
A bit more psychoactive stuff:
 
- Caffeine + L-Theanine: when I'm depressed, this is the true lifter for me.
- Taurine: boost in energy but it has some crash for me.
- Alcohol: helps to relieve tension in social events. But a moderated hangover makes me feel very stable, strange but many people report this from hangovers.
- Uridine: gives me motivation, like testosterone drive, but makes me very irritable and makes my CNS crash.
- Memantine: Makes me feel a bit dissociated and very irritable.
- Tianeptine: Anxiolytic / Stimulant. Exacerbates my rumination after few days and some weird symptoms.
- Aniracetam: Anxiolitic /stimulant, don't help with my sleep. Irritability
- Noopept: Irritability.
- Choline Bitartrate: intense depression.
- Adrafinil: Stimulant.
- Piracetam: mildly stimulant, a bit of improved mood.
- Clonazepam: as good and bad as any other benzo.
- Escitalopram: changes my personality, blocks creativity, but have some residual neuroprotective properties.
- Zolpidem: Hypnotic drug to sleep, wipes long and short term memory, makes you sleep.

 

 

If you have a suggestion in how to deal with this sensory overload let me know. Thanks for reading.


Edited by Adr1n, 23 June 2016 - 05:43 PM.

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#2 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 04:07 PM

I have pretty much everything you have (obsessive thinking, mind razing, difficult to "calm down," constantly imagining scenarios and random events from the past, good and bad, popping into my head, poor exercise ability), and a lot more.

Interestingly, I am not sad, angry or whatever. I have no psychological reason to be this way.

 

Did you try l-glutamine? Did it worsen your symptoms. With me it didn't seem to, until I added l-leucine. l-leucine + l-glutamine (1gram of each, or more or less) worsened literally everything. I believe l-leucine potentiates the effects of l-glutamine but I am not sure.

 

Things that activate GABA-A receptors help me, especially when combined with dopaminergics.

Interestingly, though, alcohol does not seem to help. Maybe 1 out of 10 times I've tried it's helped.



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#3 MetaphasicSystems

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 05:02 AM

Ghb?


Truly Blessed.

#4 Adr1n

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 02:40 PM

I have pretty much everything you have (obsessive thinking, mind razing, difficult to "calm down," constantly imagining scenarios and random events from the past, good and bad, popping into my head, poor exercise ability), and a lot more.

Interestingly, I am not sad, angry or whatever. I have no psychological reason to be this way.

 

Did you try l-glutamine? Did it worsen your symptoms. With me it didn't seem to, until I added l-leucine. l-leucine + l-glutamine (1gram of each, or more or less) worsened literally everything. I believe l-leucine potentiates the effects of l-glutamine but I am not sure.

 

Things that activate GABA-A receptors help me, especially when combined with dopaminergics.

Interestingly, though, alcohol does not seem to help. Maybe 1 out of 10 times I've tried it's helped.

 

I've tried L-Glutamine with no noticeable effect. Which GABA-A receptors agonists have you tried?. The problem I have with benzos or phenibut is the tolerance and withdrawal effects, and that they might not be addressing te main issue about reducing the excitotoxicity from excessive Glutamate in the nervous system and brain.

 

Have you tried Baclofen ?.. I'm just reading about it, and it appears to help some people with anxiety and similar symptoms to us, it was thought that this compound acted on GABA receptors, but this study says that it has low affinity for GABA binding sites: http://www.jneurosci.../6/698.full.pdf but it does reduce the glutamate excitation.

 

IncreasingGABA action calms the brain: drugs like Valium (benzodiazepines) and alcohol increase the neurotransmitter’s activity. But unlike these drugs, which can produce an addictive high, baclofen eases anxiety without the euphoria. For all the time its been on the market, it has never become a drug of abuse. (Baclofen can cause withdrawal symptoms, however, if stopped abruptly.)

→ source (external link)

 

I want to try it but I can't access to it in my country due to inexistence, so I'm looking for anecdotal reports before trying to get it from international shipping.


Edited by Adr1n, 25 June 2016 - 02:41 PM.


#5 Multivitz

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 01:02 PM

No Tyrosine I see, there's your missing piece. Just go easy on all your stuff.

#6 Adr1n

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 02:43 PM

No Tyrosine I see, there's your missing piece. Just go easy on all your stuff.

 

I'll try it out, do you believe it can put some brakes on overthinking/worrying ?. I've heard it helps with energy, I'm just afraid it acts like Uridine where I get a good boost in energy but being very edgy and irritable all day long, and crashing later on.



#7 Multivitz

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 03:08 PM

I find Gluten damage is a large cause of a lot of troubles. There's no magic bullet for calming down, but if you eat organic rice every day for a fortnight I will guarantee the protien in rice and it's trace minerals will give your kidneys a rest. Sounds simple doesn't it, it is highly effective. Just watch your mojo(internal flame), undertaking this therapy can lead to feeling/being very happy. High emotions are judged by their capacity, each emotion has a capacity, don't let yours run away with you. They can spill out if you are not used to them, hurting your life situation or the ones around you. Ultimately they form your reality quite strongly.
When you level out and the parrasites are no longer snapping at your heels, you'll get time to reflect and start enjoying life again.

#8 MetaphasicSystems

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 02:58 PM

It always cracks me up how people will take fifty pills before adding a food to their diet or adding exercise.


Truly Blessed.
I wonder what people in third world countries do without the time to over complicate their issues and come up with pills they need to be normal.


Truly Blessed.
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#9 Adr1n

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 07:08 PM

It always cracks me up how people will take fifty pills before adding a food to their diet or adding exercise.


Truly Blessed.
I wonder what people in third world countries do without the time to over complicate their issues and come up with pills they need to be normal.


Truly Blessed.

 

I do eat healthily and do exercise (as I said in my first post) and most of these pills I took em isolated and in a period of 3 years of testing. I was a person who never liked the idea of taking anything to function, but then you get to a point you can't get out of bed and you try anything in desperation to get back your life. But then comes ignorant people blaming you for trying to find a fix.

 

Also, I do live in a third world country called Venezuela, and people die here every day because they don't have their pills, people worry here because they can get shot every day at any time for FOOD, and many fathers and mothers get depressed because they can't feed their children or they can't get meds for other conditions. You have the very wrong idea about third world countries and mental illness. For instance, my mother lives with schizophrenia on streets, and I know that someday they will call me from the morgue telling me she is dead, you want to know why?, because in third world countries being in a mental facility from the state is worst than be in jail. So that is my reality, and that is just 20% of my problems here. 

 

Mental illness are real diseases, and SADLY, the current treatments don't fix the condition so people have to try 30+ pills to get an improvement, and many does, so don't try to be a smartass with you judgemental comments.


Edited by Adr1n, 02 July 2016 - 07:11 PM.

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#10 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 10:09 PM

"[...] NAC uses up excess glutamate stores. This might lessen the excitatory transmission triggered by glutamate (Berk 2009). Indeed, in at least one small clinical trial, a 6-month supplementation with NAC lead to a complete remission in depressive symptoms in 6 of 7 subjects, while placebo treatment lead to remission in only 2 of 7 (Magalhães 2011)."

http://www.lifeexten...Anxiety/Page-02


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#11 farware

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 03:14 PM

"[...] NAC uses up excess glutamate stores. This might lessen the excitatory transmission triggered by glutamate (Berk 2009). Indeed, in at least one small clinical trial, a 6-month supplementation with NAC lead to a complete remission in depressive symptoms in 6 of 7 subjects, while placebo treatment lead to remission in only 2 of 7 (Magalhães 2011)."

http://www.lifeexten...Anxiety/Page-02

 

Thanks thats very helpful information. 

 

What I dont understand is why so many people with gluten sensitivity react so poorly to L-Glutamine. Why is that? I read that Melatonin can actually increase L-Glutamine production indirectly and might be a safer alternative. Is there any truth to that? If yes, how does that work 



#12 farware

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 03:22 PM

So from my experience with this what you should try is to increase blood flow to brain and heal your gut.

 

1 Try this for 1 week without any other supps: Ginkgo + 100% Raw Cacao Mixed With Pure Water ==> IMPORTANT: Not milk! 

 

This should in theory give you some relief and calm you down a little. The PEA from the raw cacao will give you a mild relief and its all natural. 

 

2 Then for a week test Epsom salt baths plus try Glucosamine Sulfate and other sulfate sources. If it helps you, stick with it for a while.

 

However, we all react differently to supplements and our body chemistry is unique so what works for others may not work for you.



#13 Adr1n

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 03:51 PM

So from my experience with this what you should try is to increase blood flow to brain and heal your gut.

1 Try this for 1 week without any other supps: Ginkgo + 100% Raw Cacao Mixed With Pure Water ==> IMPORTANT: Not milk!

This should in theory give you some relief and calm you down a little. The PEA from the raw cacao will give you a mild relief and its all natural.

2 Then for a week test Epsom salt baths plus try Glucosamine Sulfate and other sulfate sources. If it helps you, stick with it for a while.

However, we all react differently to supplements and our body chemistry is unique so what works for others may not work for you.

Thanks for your input, I'll try that out

#14 farware

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 04:07 PM

Let us know how it goes. 

 

Ok so I did some research why people with leaky gut react poorly to L-Glutamine. Basically it is converted into glutamate within neurons which makes sense. This is really bad for people like us because what we need is less glutamate in neurons.

 

http://jn.nutrition..../1026.full.pdf 

 

Personally I am currently self-experimenting with various things including modulators of glutamate receptors because I also suspect excess glutamate in the brain which is why I am showing autistic traits at times (rather mild but throughout my life). 

 

Thats why I found RatherBeUnknowns info very crucial:  NAC uses up excess glutamate stores. This might lessen the excitatory transmission triggered by glutamate  

 

So in conclusion if you supplement with NAC + L-Glutamine you could lower your side effect but in general I would stay away from L-Glutamine and only try to increase it indirectly

 

 

A safer alternative is NAG (N-Acetyl-Glucosamine), however according to some sources (sorry no citation) it is not as well absorbed as Glucosamine sulfate. Sulfate pathways are implicated in autism if I remember correctly. Starting to make sense here .. 

 

 

The process of sulphation also affects the functioning of peptides and proteins.   Mucin proteins, which line the gastrointestinal tract, are sulphated glyco-proteins which control adhesion and absorption of nutrients.   They have long peptide backbones with repeating sub-units and also peptide side-chains, rather similar to a ‘bottle-brush’.   These amino acid sequences also have strings of   attached sugars which are sulphated like the peptides themselves.   As the addition of sulphate residues (SO 4 2- ) sticks on net negative charges, the proteins spread out since the negative charges repel each other (Figure 1).   If the sulphate residues are lost, this leads to a protein which has a more globular structure and provides less protection for the tissues from the intestinal contents as there are ‘gaps’ between the proteins.   Reduced sulphation has been linked with gut dysfunction in irritable bowel disease and Andrew Wakefield’s group showed that lower levels of sulphation of the ileal mucins occured in children with autism which probably explains why gut permeability is increased in many autistic children.

 

Source 

http://www.autismfil...t-are-the-links

 

 

 

 



#15 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 05:47 PM

NAC uses up excess glutamate stores. 

 

 

The question is what that statement I quoted actually means. What does "excessive" mean to the writer? Does the writer mean that NAC will deplete glutamate? We need to find out what the heck was meant. Maybe one of us should read the entire paragraphs in the linked LE article to look for clues.



#16 farware

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 06:15 PM

 

NAC uses up excess glutamate stores. 

 

 

The question is what that statement I quoted actually means. What does "excessive" mean to the writer? Does the writer mean that NAC will deplete glutamate? We need to find out what the heck was meant. Maybe one of us should read the entire paragraphs in the linked LE article to look for clues.

 

 

I think its very apparent what he means - it reduces excess glutamate aka overload. 

 

Glutamate overload is implicated in autism and NAC is a glutamate antagonist

 

http://epiphanyasd.b...ing-nac-in.html

 

Related Studies:

 

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT00539188

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4075088/

 

Also 

 

http://epiphanyasd.b...ing-nac-in.html

    • As a free radical scavenger in its own right
    • As a precursor to Glutathione (GSH)
    • As a glutamate antagonist
    • Reducing homocysteine

     

     



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#17 Cube

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 10:24 AM

Old thread but...

Oxaloacetic acid
https://universityhe...an-protect-you/

And neural inflammation brain will create glutamate so any anti inflammatory sups may help N-acetyl-glucosamine is popular.





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