11 replies to this topic

[adamh]

We have heard a lot lately about the benefits of hydrogen therapy. The main ways of getting hydrogen in your system seem to be the following

 

1. From the gut via hydrogen producing bacteria

2. From drinking water with dissolved h2

3. By breathing free h2 gas

 

There are other ways including injection, absorbing through the skin, even h2 infused eye drops. Encouraging the production of h2 in the gut seems to be a promising avenue, yet experimental results seem to show that even with a considerable amount of production in the intestines, additional doses of h2 have a substantial effect and are beneficial.

 

Ease of use is an important factor and since most of us do not want to take injections if there is a better way, we come down to drinking or breathing h2 as the two easiest tecs. There is already a thread on using magnesium and acid to produce h2 which dissolves in the water and can be drunk. This would seem to be a relatively easy way to do it, the drawbacks are the amount of mg compounds ingested and any impurities that may be present since the metal is not usp and not intended for internal use.

 

I have tried going the route of breathing the gas itself. At first I tried making it via aluminum reacting with lye which creates considerable gas. The troubles were storing it, the time it took to produce and the fact al compounds were formed in the water making it unsuitable for drinking to say nothing of the leftover lye. It did seem to work and I collected the gas in an upside down glass container.

 

It was a bit tricky getting the glass full of solution upside down over the al metal. Lye is corrosive so you are always dealing with that. It did eliminate any impurities since you only breath the gas and do not drink water with dissolved minerals in it. I had enough results that convinced me ingesting h2 was worth the bother and had health benefits which I could feel.

 

Since I was going to be doing this long term I looked into getting supplies of gas already made and in a suitable container that could dispense it reliably. I found a tank of h2 at a local welding supply shop, bought it for $90 used already full of gas. I then found a used regulator on ebay for about $35 delivered. You can't use co2 or other types of regulators because they are not designed for it.

 

The trouble with taking it directly from the tank and breathing it is that you will waste a lot of gas turning it on and off with the valves. I needed a way to store smaller amounts and be able to access it easily. I came up with the idea of using a balloon made to hold helium which has similar properties to h in that it is hard to hold except in proper containers. The balloon I got was extremely cheap, it is vinyl coated with aluminum called a foil balloon.

 

I did not expect it to hold it long since I've heard many times h2 will escape even through thick plastic or glass but I suspect the glass would hold it a long time. However, I filled the balloon, fitted it with a little valve and have been taking tokes off it every day, sometimes twice in a day and have not quite used up the balloon after a month of use.

 

The tank was a tiny one, 20 cu ft, the pressure on the gauge was 1800 lb, after filling the balloon it did not go down appreciably and it looks like I could fill the balloon at least 20 more times, perhaps 40 more. It works out to no more than about $1 a month for gas since it costs $20 to refill. That of course neglects the initial $125 or so for the tank and regulator.

 

If I was going to start over from scratch I would not bother with a valve but simply put a plastic tube in the opening, seal around it with hot glue and put a plug in the end. The gas has shown little propensity to escape much to my surprise. I didn't expect the balloon to last over a week and was pleased at how long it has lasted.

 

From a cost prospective, its very cost effective in the long run compared to buying mg rods and malic acid. Convenience wise it is very good since you don't have to prepare it or drink lots of water. It also eliminates the worry about whether or not there is enough gas dissolved in the water, eliminates taking too much mg, eliminates worries about contaminants. If you just wanted to try hydrogen on a whim I would say try one of the other methods until you are sure you will stay with it. Then consider buying a tank

 

I will gladly answer any questions.

[Hip]

Are you following any specific recommendations about how much hydrogen gas (in liters) to inhale each day, how many times a day to inhale it, and how long to hold the gas in your lungs before exhaling?

 

The amount of H2 that gets dissolved in water (or blood) depends on pressure and time, and since the pressure in the lungs is just ordinary atmospheric pressure, and since you will not be able to hold it in for more than around 60 seconds or so, I don't think you are going to get much H2 in your blood, unless you breath quite a bit of hydrogen throughout the day.

 

I had a quick look for studies that might have employed a hydrogen gas breathing therapy, to see how much they administered, but could not find any. So I am wondering what your are basing you dosing protocol on. 

Edited by Hip, 10 October 2016 - 05:11 AM.

[malbecman]

 I've considered doing the same....just remember that it is highly flammable so no open flames or sparks near the tank.     From the papers I was looking at (see one below), they were actually usually

using like 2-4% H2.    You are probably getting things pretty saturated if taking a pure hit.

 

Free link to paper:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4074787/

 

 

Sci Rep. 2014; 4: 5485. 

Published online 2014 Jun 30. doi:  10.1038/srep05485

PMCID: PMC4074787

Estimation of the hydrogen concentration in rat tissue using an airtight tube following the administration of hydrogen via various routes

Chi Liu,1,4,5 Ryosuke Kurokawa,1,3,5 Masayuki Fujino,1,2 Shinichi Hirano,3 Bunpei Sato,3 and  Xiao-Kang Lia,1

 

Hydrogen exerts beneficial effects in disease animal models of ischemia-reperfusion injury as well as inflammatory and neurological disease. Additionally, molecular hydrogen is useful for various novel medical and therapeutic applications in the clinical setting. In the present study, the hydrogen concentration in rat blood and tissue was estimated. Wistar rats were orally administered hydrogen super-rich water (HSRW), intraperitoneal and intravenous administration of hydrogen super-rich saline (HSRS), and inhalation of hydrogen gas. A new method for determining the hydrogen concentration was then applied using high-quality sensor gas chromatography, after which the specimen was prepared via tissue homogenization in airtight tubes. This method allowed for the sensitive and stable determination of the hydrogen concentration. The hydrogen concentration reached a peak at 5 minutes after oral and intraperitoneal administration, compared to 1 minute after intravenous administration. Following inhalation of hydrogen gas, the hydrogen concentration was found to be significantly increased at 30 minutes and maintained the same level thereafter. These results demonstrate that accurately determining the hydrogen concentration in rat blood and organ tissue is very useful and important for the application of various novel medical and therapeutic therapies using molecular hydrogen.

 

[Hip]

OK, so the study you quoted, @malbecman, says:

 

 

 

The inhalation of hydrogen gas resulted in slower elevation of the hydrogen concentration than that achieved with intraperitoneal, intravenous or oral administration. However, the elevated hydrogen concentrations were maintained for at least 60 minutes after inhalation

 

 

Hydrogen gas treatment protocol

 

The rats were treated with three concentrations of mixed gas (1% hydrogen and 99% air, 2% hydrogen and 98% air and 4% hydrogen and 96% air, respectively) through the hydrogen gas supply device. The hydrogen concentration in the mix gas was determined using the gas detector XP-3140 (New-cosmos Ltd. Co, Tokyo, Japan). The arterial blood and tissues of the liver, kidneys, heart, spleen, pancreas, intestines, muscles and brain were obtained at 30 and 60 minutes after the inhalation of different concentrations of hydrogen gas.  

 

So I presume they got the rats to breath air with added hydrogen (at up to 4%), for a period of 30 to 60 minutes. 

 

 

 

By the way, be careful never to breath pure hydrogen gas using a gas mask or face mask: you can be unconscious in 15 seconds, and dead within 15 minutes. H2 is similar to helium, in that it can be used for suicide by an inert gas. Welders who have accidentally connected their face mask air supply to the hydrogen cylinder, rather than the breathing air supply, have accidentally killed themselves in this way. You can be unconscious very quickly, due to lack of oxygen, so you won't even know what is going on. Then as you continue breathing the pure H2 or helium via the face mask over the next 15 minutes or so in this unconscious state, you are killed by the lack of oxygen.

 

 

Edited by Hip, 10 October 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[malbecman]

OK, so the study you quoted, @malbecman, says:

 

 

 

The inhalation of hydrogen gas resulted in slower elevation of the hydrogen concentration than that achieved with intraperitoneal, intravenous or oral administration. However, the elevated hydrogen concentrations were maintained for at least 60 minutes after inhalation

 

 

Hydrogen gas treatment protocol

 

The rats were treated with three concentrations of mixed gas (1% hydrogen and 99% air, 2% hydrogen and 98% air and 4% hydrogen and 96% air, respectively) through the hydrogen gas supply device. The hydrogen concentration in the mix gas was determined using the gas detector XP-3140 (New-cosmos Ltd. Co, Tokyo, Japan). The arterial blood and tissues of the liver, kidneys, heart, spleen, pancreas, intestines, muscles and brain were obtained at 30 and 60 minutes after the inhalation of different concentrations of hydrogen gas.  

 

So I presume they got the rats to breath air with added hydrogen (at up to 4%), for a period of 30 to 60 minutes. 

 

 

 

By the way, be careful never to breath pure hydrogen gas using a gas mask or face mask: you can be unconscious in 15 seconds, and dead within 15 minutes. H2 is similar to helium, in that it can be used for suicide by an insert gas. Welders who have accidentally connected their face mask air supply to the hydrogen cylinder, rather than the breathing air supply, have accidentally killed themselves in this way. You can be unconscious very quickly, due to lack of oxygen, so you won't even know what is going on. Then as you continue breathing the pure H2 or helium via the face mask over the next 15 minutes or so in this unconscious state, you are killed by the lack of oxygen.

 

 

 Yes, good point...they really don't say for how long they administered the H2 gas.    The other noticeable difference between the 3 treatments were differences in distribution, eg which organs saw the highest concentrations.  The H2 gas administration resulted in the highest concentration in the muscle (see figure 2).

[ironfistx]

I saw a treatise where someone was talking about using hydrogen peroxide as an injection.  That seemed like a bad idea.

[adamh]

I have seen reports on studies involving h2 given as a gas. They used a 2% h2 mixture with ordinary air. Hydrogen seems to be easily absorbed via the lungs. It being a tiny molecule penetrates tissues rapidly and this is also why it is hard to keep in some types of containers. People are reporting results from drinking a liter or two of water per day which may have only a few parts per million of h so its seems there is no need for massive amounts. A liter of gas per day would be more than needed perhaps. 

 

here is a study on h2 gas for prevention of strokes given as 2%

http://www.life-enha...ydrogen-therapy

 

Here is a study using 3% h2 and I'll take a small quote from it

 

Molecular hydrogen (H(2)) is an efficient antioxidant that diffuses rapidly across cell membranes,...

 

Here is the link to the rest of the article which was done by the nih

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21764987

 

I just use a little bit of gas. Its not exact or super scientific, I just use it until I feel the effects. It gives a slight light headedness as though I was hyperventilating. I would say I use just a few cubic inches per toke, hold it in as long as is comfortable and let it out through the nose to give my sinuses some benefit too. It does perfuse throughout the body, the lungs are designed to take in and release gas to/from the bloodstream.

[Hip]

Here is the link to the rest of the article which was done by the nih

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21764987

 

That study says:

 

 

Treatment groups inhaled 3% H2 or 3% N2 for 90 min

 

So if they had 3% H2 in their lungs for 90 minutes, assuming we can extrapolate, that might be equivalent to having your lungs 100% filled with hydrogen for 2.7 minutes (since 3% of 90 minutes is 2.7 minutes). Let's say 3 minutes to give a round figure.

 

So that 3 minutes perhaps gives a rough guide to the amount of H2 gas required: a whole lungful of H2, held in for one minute, with this process repeated two more times, to give a total of 3 minutes of full lung exposure to H2. Average lung capacity of an adult human male is about 6 liters. 

 

That may be equivalent to breathing 3% H2 for 90 minutes.  

Edited by Hip, 11 October 2016 - 01:01 AM.

[aconita]

About hydrogen peroxide injections, which is totally off topic here but anyway...

 

Hydrogen peroxide will provide oxygen, not hydrogen.

 

Hydrogen peroxide is not really injected since it has to be done very slow and very dilute therefore in large amounts, it is done by drip-feed with food grade H2O2 and actually I am quite surprised by the lack of interest for it in this forum. it is a very interesting medical practice very effective for a lot of conditions.

 

It is actually a very smart option to consider.  

 

That may be equivalent to breathing 3% H2 for 90 minutes.

 

I am not sure it works that way.

 

 

[Hip]

That may be equivalent to breathing 3% H2 for 90 minutes.

I am not sure it works that way.

 

You may well be right, but I just wanted to derive a very rough idea of how much hydrogen you might need to breathe.

[malbecman]

 Concerning breathing 2% H2, here is a section from another paper that looked at the uptake.   HCA=Hydrogen Containing Air  "We next measured H2 concentrations in blood obtained from the atrium and carotid artery of rats under HCA. As shown in Fig. 1A, blood H2 from both the atrium and the artery reached approximately 15 µM within 5 min and returned to basal levels within 5 min after discontinuing H2 administration. The observed H2 concentration in blood was equivalent to the value predicted by Henry’s law for the solubility of a gas in a liquid."

 

They do still use a long 3 week exposure to the HCA to look at their in vivo endpoints.

 

Molecular and Cellular Biochemistry

 

May 2015, Volume 403, Issue 1, pp 231–241

Simultaneous oral and inhalational intake of molecular hydrogen additively suppresses signaling pathways in rodents

• Authors
• Authors and affiliations

• Sayaka Sobue
• Kazuaki Yamai
• Mikako Ito
• Kinji Ohno
• Masafumi Ito
• Takashi Iwamoto
• Shanlou Qiao
• Tetsuo Ohkuwa
• Masatoshi IchiharaEmail author

Article

First Online:  24 February 2015

 

DOI: 10.1007/s11010-015-2353-y

 

Edited by malbecman, 11 October 2016 - 09:15 PM.

[adamh]

 

Here is the link to the rest of the article which was done by the nih

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21764987

 

That study says:

 

 

Treatment groups inhaled 3% H2 or 3% N2 for 90 min

 

So if they had 3% H2 in their lungs for 90 minutes, assuming we can extrapolate, that might be equivalent to having your lungs 100% filled with hydrogen for 2.7 minutes (since 3% of 90 minutes is 2.7 minutes). Let's say 3 minutes to give a round figure.

 

So that 3 minutes perhaps gives a rough guide to the amount of H2 gas required: a whole lungful of H2, held in for one minute, with this process repeated two more times, to give a total of 3 minutes of full lung exposure to H2. Average lung capacity of an adult human male is about 6 liters. 

 

That may be equivalent to breathing 3% H2 for 90 minutes.  

 

 

The lung capacity of the human may be about 6 liters but that does not mean you take in that much each time you breath. that would be over a gallon and a half. Take a 1 gallon bag and try to blow it up with one breath, you will not be able to do it. Also, we can't assume they absorb all the h2 taken in. Likely they were breathing in and out normally so only a fraction of that gas was absorbed. Another factor to consider is that when h2 is only present as 2 or 3%, they may absorb less than if it was 100% or close to it. Our lungs are meant to absorb oxygen preferentially. 

 

I take in a little bit of h2 and follow with a lung full of air. Since h does not have oxygen we will start to feel deprived right away and its difficult to hold it long. By taking in a few cubic inches of h2 and some air, I get oxygen so I dont feel the burn as quickly. I see what you are saying, Hip, but we don't know if 90 minutes is ideal. I saw another study that said after about 15 or 20 minutes there seemed to be little further benefit. You may be breathing out the h as fast as you take it in rather than increasing blood levels or tissue levels. 

 

If the capacity of the balloon I'm using is 2 gallons, which is just a guess looking at the size, then I'm using perhaps 6 to 8 cubic inches of gas each day. I don't know if this is ideal but I get relief from joint pain that I noticed before plus the light headed feeling so it seems to be working. Now its getting harder to get gas out as the balloon deflates and I have to keep messing with it to keep the passage open to the valve. I plan to replace the valve soon as I am ready to refill the balloon. I will use a piece of airhose tubing like they use in aquariums, its about 1/8" inner diameter and I will put it several inches into the balloon so that it will go to the center and not have that problem any more.

 

What is nice is that its there to use whenever I feel like using it. No long period of preparation producing gas with foil and lye, no brewing water with mag and malic acid, no concerns about the water being pure. And as a fringe benefit, it is apparently much cheaper in the long run than the mg sticks or foil and lye plus a lot less hassle once its set up. Over a years time it may pay for itself, I'm not sure how much the mg sticks cost, I was using scrap aluminum more or less free. So you may not be dollars ahead but the time saved and hassle avoided makes it well worth it to go straight gas, at least for me.

 

A cubic ft is about 8 gallons so if nothing is lost that 20 cu ft tank would refill the balloon 80 times if the balloon holds 2 gallons and each refill lasts a month. 80 months being over 6 1/2 years. I think you would save the cost of it in just a year or two based on mg sticks and no worries about lead or other contaminants in the water. I went this route to save the hassle, not for the cost savings but it does look very thrifty.