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Depressed from Alpha Lipoic acid use

calorie restriction

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#1 Qowpel

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 07:07 PM


Hi guys. So I practice CR and Methionine restriction. I am Very depressed right now after reading that since I used to take Alpha Lipoic Acid, the R form, that basically, permanently I will not be able to reap the CR benefits ever as R ala usage even after ceasing supplementation, permanently cancels out CR benefits. This is a huge hit to my efforts and I am incredibly depressed by this. Is thos truly the case?

#2 tunt01

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 11:25 PM

how long did you take it?  30 years?



#3 Darryl

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 01:32 AM

Sometimes the data is more informative than the title or abstract
 
Merry et al, 2008. Dietary lipoic acid supplementation can mimic or block the effect of dietary restriction on life spanMechanisms of ageing and development129(6), pp.341-348.
 
From Table 1:
 
median mean lifespan (days)
926     854  Ad libitum diet w/o lipoic acid
1047   1025  Fed to maintain body weight at 55% age-matched control animals
1086   1021  Ad libitum lipoic acid supplemented diet 2–6 months, then DR feeding w/o lipoic acid

Edited by Darryl, 29 October 2016 - 01:32 AM.


#4 Qowpel

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 02:52 AM

how long did you take it? 30 years?


Ho there prophets, I only took it for roughly 3 months or possibly up to 5. But as I remember I know I took it at least a definite 3 months at least, at 600 mg a day BEFORE I STARTED CR, which is why I am worried all of my effort is worthless now. I started CR while still using it, but I guess according to this study it does not matter whether I started CR during or after cessation of R ala sonce according to that the effects of CR will have been blocked for the long term. I staryed the alpha lipoic acid, the r form at 600mg a day, at 22.5 years old. Do you guys think I have a chance of having had blocked the effects of CR? And secondly, even if I did block the effects of CR, I will of course continue with glycation inhibition, sunscreen, etc to remain as youthful as possible as I age, it is jist that this discouraged me alot. Perhaps I am missing part of the picture here

#5 Qowpel

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 03:06 AM


Sometimes the data is more informative than the title or abstract

Merry et al, 2008. Dietary lipoic acid supplementation can mimic or block the effect of dietary restriction on life span. Mechanisms of ageing and development, 129(6), pp.341-348.

From Table 1:

median mean lifespan (days)
926 854 Ad libitum diet w/o lipoic acid
1047 1025 Fed to maintain body weight at 55% age-matched control animals
1086 1021 Ad libitum lipoic acid supplemented diet 2–6 months, then DR feeding w/o lipoic acid


Thank you darryl. I checked with some other members and what theu had to say about this. One user said this.

"I discussed this study (1) in some detail here. Basically, the benefit of adding lipoic acid to CR (a) was really rather unclear, (b] if real, was only manifested in mice that had initiated CR when young adults (6 mo/≈30 y), and (c] if real, was only manifested in mice that had been switched over from CR to AL later on in life (by blunting the loss of lifespan induced by going back on AL). Basically, if you started CR in middle age or older, and/or intend to remain on CR until rejuvenation biotechnology becomes available, the study is irrelevant to your situation."

Now according to what this user says, I am unsure whether to apply thos to myself as I began CR at 22.5 years old, about two and a half years ago, AFTER an ad libitum diet while being supplemented with R ALA 600 mg per day. I truly am havong trouble reaching a conclusion on this and whether or not I screwed myself out of CR benefits. If so, I may as well know so then I can at least not expect too much in the long run from my efforts. Thanks for your input Darryl. According to my history of diet that was supplements followed by cessation of R ALA ALONG with switching to CR diet when I did (22.5 years old), do you think it is likely that I screwed myself? And perhaps are there any studies that perhaps, albeit indirectly, show that maybe this is maybe not the case, and that oerhaps that study was flawed somehow?

#6 Qowpel

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 03:25 AM

how long did you take it? 30 years?


Also I am unsure why you asled me.if I took it for 30 years? Is there something i am.missing here? I am.genuinely curious why you would ask me.that?

#7 Qowpel

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 04:59 PM

Any further input anyone? The more I look at the data the more it looks like I am royally screwed and that my last 2.5 years of CR and MR have been useless as a result of my naive use of R Alpha Lipoic acid from before starting CR and MR. This is very discouraging. Anyone else make thos mistake, but despite the study and its results, found that their CR or MR is still working despite having taken Alpha Lipoic acid BEFORE YOU STARTED CR or MR?

I really need to know for if it does turn out that I screwed myself out of these benefits, I no longer have an incentive to even follow these dietary restrictions. nature sucks sometimes. Right now I am pissed at the vitamin shoppe even though this was my own dumb fault

#8 sthira

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 05:49 PM

I wouldn't stress too much, Quopel, you're 22.5 years old, you've plenty of time to keep yourself healthy, save your money, allow it to compound, and then be in a position to purchase the proven rejuvenation advances that will be in your future. Big promises await for you. Meanwhile, relax and live your happy life. CR hasn't been shown to extend life span in humans or macaques, and indeed CR may not even be healthy. So CR probably isn't your answer to increased longevity. Self experiment with it, play with it (while you await aging repair tech) but don't expect much that's not also attainable through eating a modest, healthy diet that is mostly plant based.
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#9 tunt01

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 10:58 PM

 

Also I am unsure why you asled me.if I took it for 30 years? Is there something i am.missing here? I am.genuinely curious why you would ask me.that?

 

 

I read these Merry papers once, but I am somewhat stale on their exact methodology and results.  I recall them taking lipoic acid over extended periods of time that were a substantial portion of the entire life of the rat when they switched between different regimes.

 

If you only took it for a few months, I don't think it's possible to have such a long-term deleterious effect at such a small portion of your overall life.

 

Quite honestly, I think you are being a bit hysterical over this matter.



#10 Qowpel

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 01:48 AM

Also I am unsure why you asled me.if I took it for 30 years? Is there something i am.missing here? I am.genuinely curious why you would ask me.that?


I read these Merry papers once, but I am somewhat stale on their exact methodology and results. I recall them taking lipoic acid over extended periods of time that were a substantial portion of the entire life of the rat when they switched between different regimes.

If you only took it for a few months, I don't think it's possible to have such a long-term deleterious effect at such a small portion of your overall life.

Quite honestly, I think you are being a bit hysterical over this matter.

Thanks for the input prophets. I suppose you may be right. I just of course was as you said, a bit hysterical in a sense since I truly do want to age at a dlow enough pace to make it to 100. It would be a hell of a feat. Also, perhaps even If I sabataged myself over use of ALA who is to say that Methionone Restriction will not work? I mean alot say that CR bemefots are largely due to the incodental lack pf protein in those diets. Perhaps the rats in the study under the CR condition in this study Were in actuality, not only on CR but also indirectly on MR. Either eay who is to say that Intermittent fasting cannot help me?

And lastly, with the knowledge of glycation inhibition, I feel that I can at the very least increase my healthspan and rate of external aging. What do you think?

Again I appreciate your input on this.

Anybody else have input? I appreciate it all guys thank you

#11 JustGetMeIntoSpace

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 05:50 AM

If you're over 40, there is no way that taking alpha lipoic acid at the correct dosage - to restore physiological levels - is going to hurt you.  It's one of the master antioxidants that increase significantly with aging, so restoration to youthful levels is not going to be a bad thing.  The big question issue is that often the supplement levels are designed to achieve a clincial goal and can way overshoot physiological levels.  

 

This is where so much research just makes no sense to me.  If you take way too much testosterone, we call that steroids.  But, if you take a huge megadose of an antioxidant, it's supposedly okay.  Why?

 

So that's where I would start - and I don't know the answer - is to try to find out if you were physiological or not.







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