10 replies to this topic

[normalizing]

ive been taking milk thistle for almost an year for liver problems and recently i checked myself at the doctor and i still have problems with the liver even though im very pro-herb type of person and i really believed it would help me. im starting to question the studies on milk thistle and liver health and by reviewing some of them, it seems patented versions of them, usually done IV actually seem to work but i couldnt find good enough proof of any study done on humans long term that showed positive results. im curious, does anyone ever test their liver before and after taking milk thistle with any positive results? so far, ive seen lots of people just taking it in hopes it helps but they dont even know. its kind of strange since they probably dont have liver problems to begin with.

[Richard McGee]

AHRQ Evidence Report Summary, Milk Thistle

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...books/NBK11896/

 

"Clinical efficacy of milk thistle is not clearly established. Interpretation of the evidence is hampered by poor study methods and/or poor quality of reporting in publications. Problems in study design include heterogeneity in etiology and extent of liver disease, small sample sizes, and variation in formulation, dosing, and duration of milk thistle therapy. Possible benefit has been shown most frequently, but not consistently, for improvement in aminotransferases and liver function tests are overwhelmingly the most common outcome measure studied."

 

The problem with milk thistle is similar to other non-patentable therapies: the money for proper studies is hard to come by. However, you might consider combining silymarin, with SAMe (S-adenosyl-l-methionine)  and NAC (N-acetyl Cysteine). 

[normalizing]

yeh im using NAC too now. not sure how reliable it is though as i have seen it being IV in large doses for acetaminophen poison but i didnt see anything concrete on general liver health long term

[Dorian Grey]

SAMe (S-Adenosyl methionine) & PPC (Polyenylphosphatidylcholine / brand name PhosChol & Essentiale Forte) are your liver supplement superstars.

 

Curcumin also impressive if bile flow / biliary inflammation issues are your problem.  

 

PIVENS trial showed Vitamin-E may be the best medicine for fatty liver, & lowering endotoxin through pre & pro-biotics is also getting attention if auto-immune activity is your problem.  

 

Milk Thistle was the best they had for most of the 20th Century, but today's liver supps are much better.   

 

Check your ferritin (blood lab / stored iron) level any time mysterious liver issues are going on.   The liver is the primary storage site for excess iron, & iron is the ultimate pro-oxidant.  Ferritin should be in the lower half of normal range, and double digits are better than 100+ for optimal liver health.  Blood donation is the best way to dump excess iron.  Donate whole blood and not plasma or platelets, as the iron is in the red cells.  Never underestimate the role of age related iron accumulation in liver disease.  

Edited by synesthesia, 17 November 2016 - 05:30 AM.

[sativa]

Can a IP6 aka phytic acid supplement taken first thing upon waking (1 hour before food) and possibly 2 hours before last meal help to mop up excess iron?

Edited by sativa, 21 November 2016 - 10:39 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

IP6 shines as a chelator of labile/free iron at the cellular level that can generate hydroxyl radicals within the cell...  The most damaging form of free radicals.  

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/14637247

 

The supplement iron chelators (IP6, Quercetin & Curcumin) may also help lower total iron stores (ferritin), but once ferritin is in triple digits, blood donation is the quickest way to lower excess stored iron.  The iron is in the red cells, so you must donate whole blood, not plasma or platelets.  

 

Not ready to get the jab? Then IP6, Quercetin & Curcumin are your best bet at controlling free iron.  

 

More on IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) here:  http://www.anaturalh...ol_mono_7.3.pdf

 

Magical stuff...  My Fountain of Youth!  

 

 

[Kevnzworld]

I take this form of Milk Thistle.
Here's a review of the science

http://www.biomedsea.../137625817.html

[Dorian Grey]

Perhaps it might be best to grow your own if you want fresh/potent herb.  

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26168136

 

Mycotoxins in Plant-Based Dietary Supplements: Hidden Health Risk for Consumers

 

"The highest mycotoxin concentrations were found in milk thistle-based supplements (up to 37 mg/kg in the sum)"

 

I'll take pharmaceutical grade PPC & SAM-e over molded herbs any day.  

[birthdaysuit]

Perhaps it might be best to grow your own if you want fresh/potent herb.  

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26168136

 

Mycotoxins in Plant-Based Dietary Supplements: Hidden Health Risk for Consumers

 

"The highest mycotoxin concentrations were found in milk thistle-based supplements (up to 37 mg/kg in the sum)"

 

I'll take pharmaceutical grade PPC & SAM-e over molded herbs any day.  

 

What is this based on exactly? What would be causing the mycotoxin concentration to be at these levels? Distribution, pesticides, soil, geographical location? I'm taking Gaia Milk Thistle in high dosages and I've lowered my Liver enzymes down to normal levels, whilst taking antibiotics.

[Dorian Grey]

Mycotoxins are fungal/mold growths typically resulting from improper drying of herbs.  

 

Drying small quantities of herb isn't all that hard, but apparently those working on a large scale have some damp spots that get moldy.  

 

Some molds aren't all that problematic, but others are.  Milk thistle apparently is particularly susceptible to these growths, probably due to the leaf structure/water retaining properties or something in the plant itself that molds feed on.  

 

Haven't a clue if some brands are cultivated and dried better than others, but I assume there are.  The industry should test and grade this supp like they do for heavy metals and oxidization in fish oil.  

[normalizing]

I take this form of Milk Thistle.
Here's a review of the science

http://www.biomedsea.../137625817.html

 

 

thanks for this, but which one are you buying specifically anyway i could not figure it out from this abstract. probable link to an actual buy would be best i would think