29 replies to this topic

[The Beauty of Peace]

And no moisturizer is working. I use it 2 times a week, and my skin is forever dry and/r dehydrated. 

 

Anyone knows what to do?!

 

I would love to use it every day!

 

 

[aconita]

I would love to use it every day!

 

Why?

 

Retin a is a very poor choice and a quite dangerous one too, not very effective for the scope and with lots of issues coming with it.

 

There are much better, more efficient and much safer ways to obtain what you are whishing, whatever your wishes are but helping in better scaring outcome in surgery.

[The Beauty of Peace]

 

I would love to use it every day!

 

Why?

 

Retin a is a very poor choice and a quite dangerous one too, not very effective for the scope and with lots of issues coming with it.

 

There are much better, more efficient and much safer ways to obtain what you are whishing, whatever your wishes are but helping in better scaring outcome in surgery.

 

 

Retinoids are the only type of topical cream proven to remove wrinkles!  Tons of studies on safety and effectiveness.

 

 

Anyway, can you please tell me what is safe and better?

[aconita]

Retinoids are the only type of topical cream proven to remove wrinkles!  Tons of studies on safety and effectiveness.

 

Really?

 

If you are so sure about keep using it and come back to report your results in six months or whatever time frame you do consider appropriate, maybe take some pictures of your wrinkles now in order to be able to compare and let us see too what will you achieve.

 

Right now it doesn't seem to do much good to you, does it?

 

It didn't for me and many other either...but if there are tons of studies saying otherwise maybe is just us to be unlucky.

 

Chemical peels leads to far more dramatic results almost overnight and used with proper knowledge are much safer.

 

Dermarolling is almost idiot proof and more effective.

 

Dermaneedling can be cheap and more effective than dermarolling.

 

DMAE containing cream or gel can be quite effective for some as a lot of other compounds the list of which is too long and anyway already explored in many other treads.

 

My experience suggest that topical gels and creams can help but are not very effective in reversing existing damages, not fast or dramatically at least, peelings and needlings are better choices with gels as side helpers.

 

There are other techniques too but for some we enter a field a bit tricky for the "do it yourself at home" and for some others research is still ongoing but quite promising...maybe I'll be able to post results in a near future.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Beauty of Peace]

 

Retinoids are the only type of topical cream proven to remove wrinkles!  Tons of studies on safety and effectiveness.

 

Really?

 

If you are so sure about keep using it and come back to report your results in six months or whatever time frame you do consider appropriate, maybe take some pictures of your wrinkles now in order to be able to compare and let us see too what will you achieve.

 

Right now it doesn't seem to do much good to you, does it?

 

It didn't for me and many other either...but if there are tons of studies saying otherwise maybe is just us to be unlucky.

 

Chemical peels leads to far more dramatic results almost overnight and used with proper knowledge are much safer.

 

Dermarolling is almost idiot proof and more effective.

 

Dermaneedling can be cheap and more effective than dermarolling.

 

DMAE containing cream or gel can be quite effective for some as a lot of other compounds the list of which is too long and anyway already explored in many other treads.

 

My experience suggest that topical gels and creams can help but are not very effective in reversing existing damages, not fast or dramatically at least, peelings and needlings are better choices with gels as side helpers.

 

There are other techniques too but for some we enter a field a bit tricky for the "do it yourself at home" and for some others research is still ongoing but quite promising...maybe I'll be able to post results in a near future.

 

I've been using Retin A for 12 years. And it has been working very well. The only problem is that to get a full benefit of it, one has to use it every day and I was not able to get it to that level(( Dryness is a known side effect of Retin A.

 

I have been dermarolling for 4 years. ZERO results. I've done it with 0.5 mm needles, 1 mm needles, and now I am doing it with 2.2 mm needles. Results: zero. I am only doing it because of all the research behind it. But I don't see any results even from doing it every 2 weeks.

 

I used DMAE gels as well... I saw no improvement at all.

 

AHA peels are good, I agree. Mesotherapy works. Fillers, botox work. And Retin A. And that is it. From my own experience. The rest is a waste of money.

[Adamzski]

I think just stick with using the Retin-A as much as your skin can handle. Go back to once a week, try a lower strength one. I am using it whenever Im not slightly peeling, maybe every 7-10 days. Many other things like vitamin c topical and even daily HA serum use will make me slightly peel so I try to always stay on the verge of peeling but not going too far.

 

Try a weekly or bi-weekly 30%  GA peel. I will be getting into that again.

 

 

[aconita]

AHA peels are OK but you are not going to get a great deal of wrinkles removing from them, TCA are way more effective but not as forgiving, appropriate knowledge is mandatory.

 

From what you write I suspect your dermarolling procedure is not performed in an efficient way, generally speaking 1,5-2mm is the appropriate needle length, it needs to be performed once a week in cycles of about 7 sessions 2-3 times a year and petecchia (bleeding) needs to be achieved.

 

DMAE seems to works well for some but not for everyone, at least is quite safe.

 

I am not referring to mesotherapy. Fillers or, botox but fractional electrocoagulation, for example, 

 

My dear, if after 12 years of retin a use you still need to get rid of wrinkles I am afraid it is not working very well in despite of all the researches saying otherwise.

 

30% glycolic peels are totally useless, only leading to irritation and achieving nothing positive.

 

It is a matter of dept, glycolic only affects very superficial layers doesn't matter how concentrate it is, therefore it is unable to affect the deeper layers causing wrinkles, period.

 

It is good at doing its job which is not wrinkle removal and its job is best done at about 10% concentrations applied everyday in cycles leaving appropriate breaks between them.

 

For wrinkle removal a medium or medium-deep peeling is needed and that can be achieved with TCA at 35% for example, which would be the easiest way for a self treatment.

 

Before deliberately splashing TCA on your face make sure you do know what you are doing or you may regret it badly.

 

[The Beauty of Peace]

AHA peels are OK but you are not going to get a great deal of wrinkles removing from them, TCA are way more effective but not as forgiving, appropriate knowledge is mandatory.

 

From what you write I suspect your dermarolling procedure is not performed in an efficient way, generally speaking 1,5-2mm is the appropriate needle length, it needs to be performed once a week in cycles of about 7 sessions 2-3 times a year and petecchia (bleeding) needs to be achieved.

 

DMAE seems to works well for some but not for everyone, at least is quite safe.

 

I am not referring to mesotherapy. Fillers or, botox but fractional electrocoagulation, for example, 

 

My dear, if after 12 years of retin a use you still need to get rid of wrinkles I am afraid it is not working very well in despite of all the researches saying otherwise.

 

30% glycolic peels are totally useless, only leading to irritation and achieving nothing positive.

 

It is a matter of dept, glycolic only affects very superficial layers doesn't matter how concentrate it is, therefore it is unable to affect the deeper layers causing wrinkles, period.

 

It is good at doing its job which is not wrinkle removal and its job is best done at about 10% concentrations applied everyday in cycles leaving appropriate breaks between them.

 

For wrinkle removal a medium or medium-deep peeling is needed and that can be achieved with TCA at 35% for example, which would be the easiest way for a self treatment.

 

Before deliberately splashing TCA on your face make sure you do know what you are doing or you may regret it badly.

I will look into TCA peels. Thanks for the info!

 

Oh, and I got blood from dermarolling, with 2.2 mm needles, believe me)) Doing it every week is tough as I look like I have been beaten up the next day!))

 

Retin A, IMHO, is very effective. Again, I haven't done any TCA peels, so, who knows, maybe they will blow me away! 

 

From what I understood, Vit A level has to be kept constant in the skin. Hence, 2 times per week is simply not enough.

[aconita]

Doing it every week is tough as I look like I have been beaten up the next day!

 

Unfortunately that is exactly what a correct procedure is like...and yes it is tough!

 

That's why only about 7 sessions in a row are recommended (which is more tough than one thinks) and a very appropriate length of time (a few months at least) need to be allowed for recovery and the elicited response to take place which will keep working for several months after the end of the procedure.

 

The point is that such a procedure is a bit unpleasant and I decided for a return to the origins.

 

The whole thing started when tattooing discolored scars in order to ameliorate their appearance surprisingly showed markedly improvement of the scar texture, dry tattooing (no ink) proved to achieve the mentioned results.

 

Dermarolling was conceived to achieve the same results and implemented for skin rejuvenation besides scars treatments. .

 

But it seems that actually dry tattooing is less discomfortable, more effective, faster to perform and way easier to focus on problematic areas (wrinkles) than dermarolling...and VERY expensive devices like the derminator appeared on the market.

 

My take is why spend 200$ on a derminator machine when I can put together a proper foot switch operated tattoo machine, a rotary one preferably which is quite less painful than a more traditional coil one, for about 25$?

 

In facts is what I am doing right now and very soon I'll be ready to try out my set up, hopefully I'll be able to report that it actually works as supposed to do.  

[happy lemon]

 

I would love to use it every day!

 

Why?

 

Retin a is a very poor choice and a quite dangerous one too, not very effective for the scope and with lots of issues coming with it......

 

 

Do you see that other derivatives of Vitamin A, like retinol & retinaldehyde, are also hypes and cannot deliver results what people claim?

[happy lemon]

......I have been dermarolling for 4 years. ZERO results. I've done it with 0.5 mm needles, 1 mm needles, and now I am doing it with 2.2 mm needles. Results: zero. I am only doing it because of all the research behind it. But I don't see any results even from doing it every 2 weeks.

 

I used DMAE gels as well... I saw no improvement at all.......

 

What do you want to achieve?  What kind of wrinkle do you have? Dynamic or static wrinkles? 

 

To me, I don't think that anything can get rid of dynamic wrinkles caused by facial expression.

[The Beauty of Peace]

 

......I have been dermarolling for 4 years. ZERO results. I've done it with 0.5 mm needles, 1 mm needles, and now I am doing it with 2.2 mm needles. Results: zero. I am only doing it because of all the research behind it. But I don't see any results even from doing it every 2 weeks.

 

I used DMAE gels as well... I saw no improvement at all.......

 

What do you want to achieve?  What kind of wrinkle do you have? Dynamic or static wrinkles? 

 

To me, I don't think that anything can get rid of dynamic wrinkles caused by facial expression.

 

I want to retain a youthful firm shape of the oval of my face) and smooth some wrinkles (NL folds, under eyes, etc.)

[aconita]

I want to retain a youthful firm shape of the oval of my face

 

About which retin a is going to do absolutely nothing positive and actually possibly something negative like diminishing subcutaneous fat.

 

and smooth some wrinkles (NL folds, under eyes, etc.

 

About which if after 12 years of retin a use the issue still persist I guess even 12 more years of use are likely not going to improve things either.

 

You probably need some skin tightening and the more promising approach right now seems to be fractional electrocoagulation (good luck finding someone performing it).

 

Just to to give a rough idea about what it is imagine drilling a series of tiny holes in the skin following specific patterns which leads to less skin available therefore tightening will result.

 

It is simple, fast and non invasive, results are quite impressive, if not performed properly can leave tiny dot scars.

 

http://www.surgicalc...rbital-inferior

 

 

[The Beauty of Peace]

 

 

You probably need some skin tightening and the more promising approach right now seems to be fractional electrocoagulation (good luck finding someone performing it).

 

 

 

 

 

With all due respect, if it is so hard to find fractional electrocoagulation, what is the point talking about it?
 

In my city, I get zero results when I google the name. Let's talk about things that are AVAILABLE))

[aconita]

I don't even know in which city do you live, how can I possibly know if a plastic surgeon performing this specific technique is available near by?

 

Maybe googling doesn't always provide all the answers...maybe a few phone calls yield different results...

 

From what I understand fractional electrocoagulation is not mainstream practice among plastic surgeons therefore probably not easy to get, a try might be worth anyway. me think.

 

Someone may consider flying to Rio to have it performed since the procedure doesn't require hospitalization, is fast and there is basically no convalescence. 

 

Anyway, if you read the provided link, accurate (actually VERY accurate) description of the method is provided, an electrocoagulator second hand unit is available for about 50$ on eBay in the US which is all one needs to perform the procedure.

 

Any doctor with a minimal manual skill should be able to do it and it is possible even a do yourself treatment for whom is manually skilled.

 

It may sound a strong statement but I don't think that after all it would be more "dangerous" than a do yourself TCA peeling, actually it would be probably more forgiving.

 

I mentioned it because it is easy and simple to perform, an electrocoagulator unit is very common in any medical setting, very likely even in your dentist studio, in other words any doctor already has access to all what is needed and knows how to operate it.

 

That doesn't make automatically ready available the procedure but certainly not impossible.

 

By the way Rio is probably the most beautiful city in the world and right know is in full summer... 

 

 

 

 

[ta5]

How often do you wash your face?

What do you wash your face with?

What else are you using besides Retin-A?

[The Beauty of Peace]

How often do you wash your face?

What do you wash your face with?

What else are you using besides Retin-A?

I wash my face twice a day with La Roche Posay sensitive skin cleanser.

 

In AM I  use a Vit C Serum for eyes all over my face with a gel-type of lotion from a Japanese skincare company on top. I works if I use Retin A only 2 times per week.

If I use Retin A more often, my skin looks very dry. No moisturizer can help... 

[ta5]

Wash your face only once a day, with as little cleanser as possible. Skip a day when you can.

 

You live in Canada and it's winter, so that's not helping. What's your skin like in the summer?

 

What % Retin-A are you using?

[The Beauty of Peace]

0.05%. I tried 0.025% - the same. 

 

In the summer my skin is normal. I have a humidifier at home, but whenever I go outside, my skin becomes super dry.

 

 

[Gayle63]

 

 

Retinoids are the only type of topical cream proven to remove wrinkles!  Tons of studies on safety and effectiveness.

 

Really?

 

If you are so sure about keep using it and come back to report your results in six months or whatever time frame you do consider appropriate, maybe take some pictures of your wrinkles now in order to be able to compare and let us see too what will you achieve.

 

Right now it doesn't seem to do much good to you, does it?

 

It didn't for me and many other either...but if there are tons of studies saying otherwise maybe is just us to be unlucky.

 

Chemical peels leads to far more dramatic results almost overnight and used with proper knowledge are much safer.

 

Dermarolling is almost idiot proof and more effective.

 

Dermaneedling can be cheap and more effective than dermarolling.

 

DMAE containing cream or gel can be quite effective for some as a lot of other compounds the list of which is too long and anyway already explored in many other treads.

 

My experience suggest that topical gels and creams can help but are not very effective in reversing existing damages, not fast or dramatically at least, peelings and needlings are better choices with gels as side helpers.

 

There are other techniques too but for some we enter a field a bit tricky for the "do it yourself at home" and for some others research is still ongoing but quite promising...maybe I'll be able to post results in a near future.

 

I've been using Retin A for 12 years. And it has been working very well. The only problem is that to get a full benefit of it, one has to use it every day and I was not able to get it to that level(( Dryness is a known side effect of Retin A.

 

I have been dermarolling for 4 years. ZERO results. I've done it with 0.5 mm needles, 1 mm needles, and now I am doing it with 2.2 mm needles. Results: zero. I am only doing it because of all the research behind it. But I don't see any results even from doing it every 2 weeks.

 

I used DMAE gels as well... I saw no improvement at all.

 

AHA peels are good, I agree. Mesotherapy works. Fillers, botox work. And Retin A. And that is it. From my own experience. The rest is a waste of money.

 

 

I've been using Retin-A .1% for many years, probably 19 years at this point, and I do like it. It is effective and I've had no issues with it other than the occasional peel. However, it is very strong, so either start with an OTC retinol and work your way up to prescription strength, or use it every 2-3 days. It is drying, but there are good moisturizers and masks out there that will help. B3 serum is good, and the Yonka line of products is also very good.

[Matt]

Try high dose Bitoin

[lost69]

i just used retin A at 47yo to see if it could address some very fine wrinkles, it did and also made some inflammation making some volume on cheeks but after some time it made a huge loss of volume and some sagging skin....so an enormous damage much worse than fine wrinkles

 

now 1 year later i m recovering from the sagging thanks to C60, PRP injections,NR and icariin

 

i think retin A can only work well when young, in my experience made a lot of damge

Edited by lost69, 07 March 2017 - 02:04 PM.

[The Beauty of Peace]

Try high dose Bitoin

 

Thanks, I think it works! Either Biotin or HA sups.

[Gayle63]

Try high dose Bitoin

What do you consider high dose?

[Gayle63]

I've been using Retin-A for many, many years, and I do like it, but I wouldn't recommend using it every day, maybe every 2-3 days. Keep an eye on your skin for peeling. If you feel it burning and see the peeling, back off for a bit, gently exfoliate. Yonka Vital Defense is a fabulous moisturizer, and you can also use hyaluronic acid serum, which adds moisture. And don't forget your SPF products when you go out. 

[The Beauty of Peace]

I've been using Retin-A for many, many years, and I do like it, but I wouldn't recommend using it every day, maybe every 2-3 days. Keep an eye on your skin for peeling. If you feel it burning and see the peeling, back off for a bit, gently exfoliate. Yonka Vital Defense is a fabulous moisturizer, and you can also use hyaluronic acid serum, which adds moisture. And don't forget your SPF products when you go out. 

 

Moisturizers make my skin worse.

 

I take 5,000 mcg of Biotin every day + 10 caps of HA. And I think it helped a lot. And I use Clarisonic when I have a lot of peeling and then a HA serum on top.

[Gayle63]

 

I've been using Retin-A for many, many years, and I do like it, but I wouldn't recommend using it every day, maybe every 2-3 days. Keep an eye on your skin for peeling. If you feel it burning and see the peeling, back off for a bit, gently exfoliate. Yonka Vital Defense is a fabulous moisturizer, and you can also use hyaluronic acid serum, which adds moisture. And don't forget your SPF products when you go out. 

 

Moisturizers make my skin worse.

 

I take 5,000 mcg of Biotin every day + 10 caps of HA. And I think it helped a lot. And I use Clarisonic when I have a lot of peeling and then a HA serum on top.

 

Okay, thank you. I also take 5,000 mcg of Biotin, but not that much HA. Maybe I should bump that up. On a side note, I started giving HA to my old crippled dog, and it does help her joints!

[ZuoCi]

I used to get the same problems in winter. My skin was so dry it would literally be flaking off of my face, even with moisturizer. It was nasty. I was using .1 every day.

The moisturizer that helped me the most was from CeraVe. I read that ceramides helped with dryness from tretinoin. It absolutely did work very well.

 

Since you said that moisturizers make your skin worse, obviously CeraVe wouldn't make a good match for you. But you may see if you can find something else, like a serum that has ceremides in it. A lot of them are over-priced, but there are cheaper ones if you do a bit of digging.

[lucaasalberto]

Hi,

 

Sorry you are having trouble with tretinoin, and I sure understand you wanting to bump it up to everyday use. But it is important to note that, as with anything that we apply to skin, it is important that it is not causing more inflammation, more damage, as using a topical incorrectly can.

When you say moisturisers make your skin worst, what do you mean exactly? Do they make it more dry, they increase the sensation of tightness?

Regarding your cleansing, you mentioned you use a gentle cleanser from La Roche-Posay, but didn't say which one specifically. I would recommend revisiting the cleansing process; I myself can only use tretinoin (and not everyday!) when using gentle milk or cream cleansers, no foaming or gels, since those make me very dry and nothing helps. On the other hand, I also feel from my personal experience that if I use cleansers that are too occlusive (like too heavy of a cream cleanser, or balms that are hard to remove), my skin will also become very dry: there will be some sort of build up that doesn't let moisturizer actually moisturise, because of all the dead cells that weren't properly removed during cleansing (it should be noted that while retinoids increase cell turn over, they are not exfoliants, which means they may increase cell-build up if you aren't cleansing/exfoliating correctly, and that will get in the way of any moisturizer doing its job. Also, the temperature of the water might be very important: some recommend tepid water (and that's as hot as it should get!), some recommend cold water. I prefer cold as well, but you should experiment.
On the topic of properly cleansing, if you wear makeup, if might be important to cleanse twice at night, to make sure you removed everything; you might use different cleanser for this "double cleanse", or just use the same one twice. I would not use a gel or foaming cleanser twice (not even once, really), since those make me very dry.

I would recommend starting a vitamin E supplement if you aren't already taking one. 400UI orally (but you can use a moisturizer rich in vitamin E as well, or perhaps vitamin E oil) for a month should give you an idea if it is helping with dryness.

I think it would be important to find a moisturizer that works for you, specially because you could apply tretinoin over a layer of moisturizer, reducing the rate of absorption. There are many types out there, some higher in water-binding components (like glycerin, hyaluronic acid, etc), some higher in oil-components, and among those, some with vegetable oils and some with vegetal butters, a great variety, as well as ceramides, cholesterol and other natural moisturizing factors (NMF) that you should be looking for.

I guess it goes without saying, but you should be using sunscreen daily; while it might not seem like it, uv light can have a very negative effect on skin, causing not only burns and pigmentation, but inflammation as a general, making skin behave poorly, and perhaps feeling quite drier than it should.

 

Best,

Lucas.

[The Beauty of Peace]

Thanks, Lucas, for your advice.

 

Vitamin E and milk cleansers sound really good!

 

I am a firm believer that your skin should be able to moisturize itself and not depend from the moisture from outside. I also believe that moistorizers make skin heavier. No research to back that up! Just from my own experience.