34 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

I just watched this video from a year ago:

 

 

Is there some sort of mimetic out there that we can do or use that doesn't involve needing access to a sauna, much less the type of sauna they have in Finland? While there are some saunas in Philly, they're prohibitively expensive and inconvenient, involving high membership fees and a good distance away for using it 4 days a week.

 

I suppose what we'd want is a FOX03A activator.

Edited by Nate-2004, 27 January 2017 - 01:41 PM.

[VP.]

I've heard good things about this. You do need some room for it.

https://smile.amazon...=sauna portable

 

[Nate-2004]

Wow, that's incredible. I wonder if they'd let me put that in my high rise apartment in Center City. No room unless I upgrade to the one bedroom. That's cost prohibitive in that sense.

[Andey]

Aren't there a sauna and steam rooms at gyms in US ? Its kinda common where I live - gym, cardio, swimming pool and one to three sauna rooms at the same club. I mean if you are serious about longevity you obviously serious about exercise too. Just choose a gym with sauna and problem solved.

[Kalliste]

Most gyms do have a sauna. I always go into it after my gym sessions.

I doubt there is a mimetic supplement that will give you all the benefits of heat.

 

What I suspect:

Heat gives hormesis.

Heat is artificial fever that culls unwanted bugs.

Heat chelates heavy metals in sweat.

Heat increases blood flow to areas that receive little.

 

Etc. Hard to mime with supplement isn't it?

 

At home there are several alternatives that I use:

1. Hot baths

 

2. Red light from halogen. I got a 2500w setup with red tinted food heater bulbs in halogen fixtures.

Bonus is that you get whatever healing powers are provided by red light, some say there are many benefits of that alone for eg. mitochondrial health.

https://redlightther...-light-therapy/

 

3. You can buy a mobile infrared sauna, some are as small as a chair. Never tried it.

[Nate-2004]

Aren't there a sauna and steam rooms at gyms in US ? Its kinda common where I live - gym, cardio, swimming pool and one to three sauna rooms at the same club. I mean if you are serious about longevity you obviously serious about exercise too. Just choose a gym with sauna and problem solved.

 

I live in Center City Philadelphia, there are a number of gyms around but very few have saunas, the only one I know of that's even remotely close is still a bit of a trek and isn't a very good gym.

 

I'm better off buying that thing posted above but then again, I don't have room for it. I wish Saunas were more common but they aren't all that popular in the U.S.

[Nate-2004]

Most gyms do have a sauna. I always go into it after my gym sessions.

I doubt there is a mimetic supplement that will give you all the benefits of heat.

 

What I suspect:

Heat gives hormesis.

Heat is artificial fever that culls unwanted bugs.

Heat chelates heavy metals in sweat.

Heat increases blood flow to areas that receive little.

 

Etc. Hard to mime with supplement isn't it?

 

At home there are several alternatives that I use:

1. Hot baths

 

2. Red light from halogen. I got a 2500w setup with red tinted food heater bulbs in halogen fixtures.

Bonus is that you get whatever healing powers are provided by red light, some say there are many benefits of that alone for eg. mitochondrial health.

https://redlightther...-light-therapy/

 

 

3. You can buy a mobile infrared sauna, some are as small as a chair. Never tried it.

 

If you watched the video I posted she explains heat shock proteins.

 

As for that set up, that's pretty interesting. How much was it?

 

I'm not thinking that setup would get to the 200 degrees that most saunas need to be at for heat shock.

[Andey]

 

Aren't there a sauna and steam rooms at gyms in US ? Its kinda common where I live - gym, cardio, swimming pool and one to three sauna rooms at the same club. I mean if you are serious about longevity you obviously serious about exercise too. Just choose a gym with sauna and problem solved.

 

I live in Center City Philadelphia, there are a number of gyms around but very few have saunas, the only one I know of that's even remotely close is still a bit of a trek and isn't a very good gym.

 

I'm better off buying that thing posted above but then again, I don't have room for it. I wish Saunas were more common but they aren't all that popular in the U.S.

 

 

There is also a 'portable' FIR saunas available. Like these http://www.amazon.co...words=FIR sauna

I ve tried one of these and it definitely feels different from traditional sauna alike (Finnish, Russian banya). FIR effective in making you to sweat but temperature inside is not nearly as high. So is it effective in inducing heat shock proteins is a big question for me. 

 

[Kalliste]

Heat shock proteins might be inducible, in fact I seem to recall papers where they just injected animals with them.

 

What about hot baths?

There are portable tubs if you don't own one.

[Kalliste]

Light info

http://heelspurs.com/led.html

http://www.bibliotec...sp_salud04a.htm

 

Modulates HSP

http://www.amjbot.or...t/93/1/102.full

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 30 January 2017 - 08:20 PM.

[Nate-2004]

 

Unfortunately I have scoured the entire city and as far as I can tell, there are no saunas in Philadelphia. Could be some kind of code or insurance expense problem. That one on Amazon is too big for my place and also it doesn't get past 60c which isn't hot enough to get the beneficial effects.

 

Wish I lived in Finland.

 

Maybe this is a good niche to start a business.

[Oakman]

Nate, perhaps consider CO instead in your next move. Nearly any gym of size here where we live has Sauna and steam room, sometimes Hot Tub. My wife is Finnish, so I live with an 'Sauna expert', and although the ones here are pretty hot, they are not allowed (some US law, or possibility of lawsuits?) to get near as hot as the "real" Finnish saunas. Worse, you can't pour beer over the heating elements (or drink it while in one) which takes away the great smell it provides (like bread baking) and the good feeling it provides  .

 

Nevertheless, besides using them off and on, when I do my "Zombie Autophagy" protocol for mitochondrial rejuvenation, I spend one hour each day getting well "overheated" to add thermal stress to the equation.  Seems to work, even if it gives me weak knees in the process! 

[Nate-2004]

Someone recommended this one but even this one still doesn't get up to 80 degrees celsius:

 

https://www.amazon.c...m_cd_al_qh_dp_t

 

I also wonder if I couldn't just get this one and attach some extra mid and near infrared lights.

[Nate-2004]

Most gyms do have a sauna. I always go into it after my gym sessions.

I doubt there is a mimetic supplement that will give you all the benefits of heat.

 

What I suspect:

Heat gives hormesis.

Heat is artificial fever that culls unwanted bugs.

Heat chelates heavy metals in sweat.

Heat increases blood flow to areas that receive little.

 

Etc. Hard to mime with supplement isn't it?

 

At home there are several alternatives that I use:

1. Hot baths

 

2. Red light from halogen. I got a 2500w setup with red tinted food heater bulbs in halogen fixtures.

Bonus is that you get whatever healing powers are provided by red light, some say there are many benefits of that alone for eg. mitochondrial health.

https://redlightther...-light-therapy/

 

 

3. You can buy a mobile infrared sauna, some are as small as a chair. Never tried it.

 

Hey if I wanted to get a combination of red, near infrared and mid infrared and combine it with this far infrared sauna, where would I get the red, near and mid lights? I looked on that page you linked but I'm not seeing a means of actually purchasing the lights shown.

Edited by Nate-2004, 05 February 2017 - 09:39 PM.

[Nate-2004]

So turns out I was completely misinformed. There is in fact a normal, 180 degree F 82c sauna in my very own gym locker room 2 blocks away. I was told there wasn't, but I just went exploring through the locker room and there it was, and people were in there and it showed 180+ F on the temp gauge. Now I'm not sure if it's infrared or coal or whatever they use to heat saunas. I'm kind of hoping it's far infrared since that's pretty good for you. I'll be doing this and saving a ton of money.

 

Still wondering about the red light therapy though. I bought this 600 to 900 nm range bulb here to start with but I know there's probably more I can do for broader ranges.

[bosharpe]

Has there been any comparisons between Sauna and hot showers/baths? I've maxed out my budget for gym/longevity stuff. 

[Nate-2004]

Yeah this is honestly the least expensive part of my longevity budget. I've been doing this 4x a week since I first posted this thread. I can't report anything yet, but I assume it's working as a good compliment to regular exercise. No way to know for years if it's slowing aging at all

[Kalliste]

Great news for Sauna

 

 

Eur J Epidemiol. 2018 Mar;33(3):351-353. doi: 10.1007/s10654-017-0335-y. Epub 2017 Dec 5.

Sauna bathing and systemic inflammation.

Laukkanen JA^1,2, Laukkanen T³.

Author information

Abstract

We aimed to investigate whether frequency of sauna bathing is associated with the levels of serum C-reactive protein. C-reactive protein is a leading blood marker of systemic inflammation. The study consisted of 2084 men (42-60 years) without acute or chronic inflammation. A total of 533 (25.6%), 1368 (65.6%), and 183 (8.8%) participants reported having a sauna bath once a week, 2-3 times, and 4-7 times per week; mean serum C-reactive protein levels were 2.41 (standard deviation 2.91), 2.00 (2.41), 1.65 (1.63) mmol/L, respectively. In a multivariable analysis adjusted for baseline age, body mass index, systolic blood pressure, smoking, type 2 diabetes, previous myocardial infarction, and serum low density lipoprotein cholesterol, alcohol consumption and physical activity, there was a significant inverse association between the frequency of sauna bathing and the level of C-reactive protein. Further studies are warranted to investigate the relationship between sauna bathing and systemic inflammation.

 

 

I wonder if hot baths provide a similar degree of protection as Sauna?

 

Heres another article on IR.

Some are also saying Sauna goes well with B3 Niacin/NAD axis

 

http://centeredthera...rst-responders/

 

 

Benefits of Infrared Sauna Use for First Responders

(firefighters, police personnel, EMT’s, paramedics, and active and discharged military)

First responders have one of the highest risks for exposure to toxin overload from chemicals such as PCBs, PBBs, dioxins, arsenic, cadmium, lead, mercury, BPA, and more. Symptoms of toxin overload include:

Fatigue Headache Joint/muscle pain Frequent colds and flu Allergies Hormonal imbalances Chemical sensitivity Sinus congestion Psoriasis and other skin conditions Loss of dexterity Insomnia Memory loss Mood changes Mental confusion  

¹

Infrared saunas offer a viable solution to naturally and safely removing toxins from the body. Whole body infrared saunas have been used by German physicians for over 80 years and are used extensively in Germany, other areas of Europe, Japan, and Canada. Medical research has been conducted on infrared saunas in the United States since the 1950s and Mayo Clinic reports, “no adverse effects have been reported with infrared saunas.”

Saunas were used as the primary treatment for toxin overload for first responders after 9/11. Sauna detox studies have long showed that saunas reduce PCBs, PBBs, dioxins, various drugs, pesticides, and heavy metals from the body. A study conducted on first responders of the World Trade Center (WTC) utilizing a sauna detox protocol found:

• 84% of responders were able to discontinue medications used to manage symptoms related to World Trade Center exposure
• Over 50% of responders were using pulmonary medications and 72% of them were off all pulmonary medications after detoxification
• Thyroid function testing showed statistically significant improvement
• Intelligence Quotient (IQ) testing showed improvement in cognitive function
• Postural Sway Testing (balance) showed significant improvement in vestibular function²

A traditional sauna was used on the WPC responders which required sauna sessions of 2 to 5 hours. Infrared saunas are 7 times more effective at removing the same toxins which allows for manageable sessions of 30 minutes.

What is an infrared sauna? Infrared saunas use infrared light waves which the body feels as heat to warm the body directly. This triggers a boost in the immune system, increase in circulation, and deep cleansing sweat. Infrared light is just beyond the visible spectrum and naturally produced by the sun and our body’s cells. Infrared saunas are designed to produce the most healing spectrum of infrared light and the technology is used everyday in NICU units to keep newborns warm.

What are the benefits of infrared (IR) sauna use? Beyond the detoxification benefits, the Journal of American Medical Association (JAMA) reports a moderately conditioned person can burn between 300-600 calories in 30 minutes of sauna use. In a Chinese study, IR saunas showed 90% improvement in soft tissue injuries, lumbar strain, periarthritis of the shoulder, sciatica, neurodermatitis, eczema with infection, post-surgery infections, diarrhea, cholecystis, neurasthenia, pelvic infections (UTI), tineas, frostbite, and facial paralysis (Bell’s Palsy).³

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) conducted a 5-year study that determined firefighters in the US suffer higher rates of certain cancers than the general public. Recent research is finding that for every 5-degree increase in temperature, the body absorption rate can increase up to 400%. Many of the new construction and household materials are being made out of chemicals that the body doesn’t recognize and process causing these toxins to build up in cells.⁴ This causes an accumulative effect over a lifetime. On www.rethinkingcancer.org, the Foundation in Advancements in Cancer Therapy has listed over 12 ways infrared saunas aid in fighting cancer. In the Journal of Cancer Science and Therapy, scientists studying cancer cells in mice found an 86% reduction of tumor volume in 30 days with infrared therapy.⁵

Research accumulated from World Trade Center first responders and numerous studies conducted over the past 60+ years have continually showed the benefits of infrared sauna use. It is widely used in other countries with over 30 million people who have received infrared treatment in the Orient, Europe, and Australia.³ For additional information on how infrared sauna sessions can benefit you, see our website: http://centeredthera....</span></span>

1 http://lifestylelabo...n-overload.html

2 Marie A. Cecchini, MS; David E. Root, MD, MPH; Jeremie R. Rachunow, MD; and Phyllis M. Gelb, MD. Chemical Exposures at the World Trade Center: Use of the Hubbard Sauna Detoxification Regimen to Improve the Health Status of New York City Rescue Workers Exposed to Toxicants. Townsend Letter for Doctor & Patients April 2006,

http://www.townsendl...hemexp1206.html

3 http://lifestylelabo...flickstein.html, http://saunacore.com...s/dr_aaron1.pdf (JAMA)

4 http://www.desmoines...hters/97463154/

5 Tatsuo I, Ishibashi, J. et al Non-Thermal Effects of Far-Infrared Ray (FIR) on Human Hepatocellular Carcinoma Cells HepG2 and their Tumors,J Cancer Sci Ther Volume1(2) : 078-082 (2009) – 078 http://www.omicsonline.org/Arch

 

Edited by Kalliste, 26 April 2018 - 05:42 PM.

[Andey]

There is in fact a normal, 180 degree F 82c sauna in my very own gym locker room 2 blocks away

 

I believe most research done in Scandinavia where its usually 100-110C, don't sure how it translates to 80C.

From my experience its vastly different. 100C+ needs some adaptation. When steam generator broke in my gym and Russian style wet `banya` lost all of its humidity for few days, 80C in it was meh. Nobody bothered to go there.

[Nate-2004]

I highly doubt that. All the studies specifically state that the temperature was around 80 celsius. You realize 100 is boiling right? There were some studies on 100c at much lower times spent, 5 minutes rather than 20. 80 is plenty hot and usually at my gym it's around 90c.  It took me some time to adapt to 80c and when it's been a few days I have to re-adapt.

 

These studies are NOT on steam rooms they are on DRY saunas. Steam rooms are much cooler, you may be talking fahrenheit. There is no steam in a dry sauna. To add humidity in a sauna risks overheating as sweat cannot evaporate over 44% humidity. That means your body can't cool itself down.

Edited by Nate-2004, 27 April 2018 - 12:42 PM.

[Oakman]

My scandinavian 'friend' says 80-100 C is normal sauna temp. They are 'dry', but peps throw either water or beer on the heater, so it get a little steamy. They also beat themselves & each other with birch branches, because it feels good.

[Nate-2004]

My scandinavian 'friend' says 80-100 C is normal sauna temp. They are 'dry', but peps throw either water or beer on the heater, so it get a little steamy. They also beat themselves & each other with birch branches, because it feels good.

 

I've heard about this.

 

Yeah it always annoys me when someone tries to steam up the sauna, it's kind of dangerous to do that.

[Oakman]

I've heard about this.

 

Yeah it always annoys me when someone tries to steam up the sauna, it's kind of dangerous to do that.

 

I can attest that it's not dangerous. All Finns can't be wrong, as it's done often. I like beer on sauna heaters. Smells for all the world like a Mom's bread baking in the oven...uuummmm...good! In the winter it's great to go back and forth between the snow bank and the sauna. Talk about heat shock

[Andey]

My scandinavian 'friend' says 80-100 C is normal sauna temp. They are 'dry', but peps throw either water or beer on the heater, so it get a little steamy. They also beat themselves & each other with birch branches, because it feels good.

I assume there is a confusion because with added water safe temperature decreases, that's why it's a range 80-110.

Finns did championships where the temperature was 110C and they poured a water too, but this is as extreme as it gets.

In my experience 100-110 in a dry sauna are less challenging than 80 with water and branches. Where I live it's 2 distinct types, in separate rooms. 

 

 

 Anyway, its quite a stress for a body, and I don't see where the stress is in an 80C dry sauna. 

[Nate-2004]

I assume there is a confusion because with added water safe temperature decreases, that's why it's a range 80-110.

Finns did championships where the temperature was 110C and they poured a water too, but this is as extreme as it gets.

In my experience 100-110 in a dry sauna are less challenging than 80 with water and branches. Where I live it's 2 distinct types, in separate rooms. 

 

 

 Anyway, its quite a stress for a body, and I don't see where the stress is in an 80C dry sauna. 

 

Nevertheless, 80c is enough for heat stress, according to the study posted earlier above and the original Finnish study. In fact, trying to find it, 60c may even be enough because that's the max temp of infrared saunas. If I could, I'd tell my gym to boost the temp, but neither I nor most people in the U.S. have control over what their gym sets the sauna to.

[pamojja]

 Anyway, its quite a stress for a body, and I don't see where the stress is in an 80C dry sauna. 

 

Huch, don't know about saunas - seems like a different dimension. However, today - it's still only April - after just 40 minutes in the sun (21°C Air) it was enough sweat-stress to take a swim (~14° C Water temperature).
 

[Andey]

Huch, don't know about saunas - seems like a different dimension. However, today - it's still only April - after just 40 minutes in the sun (21°C Air) it was enough sweat-stress to take a swim (~14° C Water temperature).
 

 

  One of the best things in life ) to swim in cold water after breaking a sweat

[DareDevil]

Thanks for the thread Nate, I thought I was a well-being hedonist for primarily joining my gym to have access to their sauna and steam bath. I guess it's not so stupid after all and might bring as many benefits as a cardio workout. I alternate between the dry sauna and the steam bath that serves to relax me before another in a series of sauna sessions. It has always made me feel healthier, and I thought it was merely due to being more relaxed. Now I know why it works. 

 

Cheers

 

DareDevil

[Nate-2004]

Yeah I've been doing HIIT style workouts for 20 mins then sauna for another 20 every workout. This is mainly because I read that the best results at getting your brain or body to produce BDNF was extended exercise like long distance running up to 40 mins. Unfortunately running is high impact and not all that great for joints. I've never been much of a runner, sprinter perhaps. I figure coupling these together would give the best results.

[Rocket]

How about a hot suit like was popular in the 80s as a instant weight loss solution.