5 replies to this topic

[lumia]

I've been following some Japanese material on probiotics, and noticed their research concentrates on two things: (1) GI effects, which isn't even surprising given their obsession on bowel function, and (2) immunological effects--as an example, the best selling probiotic on Amazon Japan is Miyarisan (Clostridium butyricum) due to a believe that it treats autoimmune disorders. The first part of course needs live bacteria, while it seems that Japanese think probiotic bacteria don't need to be alive at the stomach to have that sort of effects.

 

Let's say, the LKM512 that have been well-discussed here. Judging from their marketing material, their inflammatory effect is more on the polyamines they synthesize (PMID:24686447). Using another strain as comparison, Meiji seems to think immunological effect of their 1073R-1 strain is partly contributed to the exopolysaccharides they secrete. (PMID:21986509)

 

An then I came across this supplement ingredient manufacturer, who thinks that heat-killed, ultrasonic micronized probiotic bacteria can up-regulate Th1 as well, their explanation being that: CD4 activity only works after an antigen is being presented by an antigen-presenting cell like dendritic cells, thus, micronized cell membranes is more likely to passed the intestinal wall and be presented to the dendritic cells there, and thus most effective to generate the required immunological response for the strain of bacteria.

 

This latter points work for vaccines. But does it really work for probiotics?

[withdrawn]

In response to your initial question, yes they do!

There is quite a popular product that I have used on occasions when I have a cold/flu. It's called del immune v. As far as I'm aware, it contains cell fragments of a certain strain of bacteria, which is reported to heavily stimulate immune system, once consumed.

I have noticed a positive pronounced effect if taken in really large quantities, when I have a cold. The cold never seems to progress any further than a runny nose, which only lasts for a handful of days, and the intensity of the cold is very faint. I'm still able to conduct my daily activities, when otherwise, I'd be bedridden.

Though If I take a small dose, I don't feel any effects at all. The dosage stated on the bottle is literally 2 capsules. That does not do anything. But take 20 at the first signs of a cold, and trust me, it literally does have a noticeable effect.

The problem I have is the cost. It is really bloody expensive, so it places limitations on me being able to experiment with it further, which is a shame. Not sure why it is priced so extortionately in the UK.

[Darryl]

Its possible, depending I suspect on how the intestinal immune system responds to their antigens. I thought this was a fascinating paper last December:

Plovier et al, 2017. A purified membrane protein from Akkermansia muciniphila or the pasteurized bacterium improves metabolism in obese and diabetic mice. Nature Medicine, 23(1), pp.107-113.

 

Obesity and type 2 diabetes are associated with low-grade inflammation and specific changes in gut microbiota composition. We previously demonstrated that administration of Akkermansia muciniphila to mice prevents the development of obesity and associated complications. However, the underlying mechanisms of this protective effect remain unclear. Moreover, the sensitivity of A. muciniphila to oxygen and the presence of animal-derived compounds in its growth medium currently limit the development of translational approaches for human medicine. We have addressed these issues here by showing that A. muciniphila retains its efficacy when grown on a synthetic medium compatible with human administration. Unexpectedly, we discovered that pasteurization of A. muciniphila enhanced its capacity to reduce fat mass development, insulin resistance and dyslipidemia in mice. These improvements were notably associated with a modulation of the host urinary metabolomics profile and intestinal energy absorption. We demonstrated that Amuc_1100, a specific protein isolated from the outer membrane of A. muciniphila, interacts with Toll-like receptor 2, is stable at temperatures used for pasteurization, improves the gut barrier and partly recapitulates the beneficial effects of the bacterium. Finally, we showed that administration of live or pasteurized A. muciniphila grown on the synthetic medium is safe in humans. These findings provide support for the use of different preparations of A. muciniphila as therapeutic options to target human obesity and associated disorders.

 

 

[aconita]

Some states that dead probiotics still carry intact DNA which can be advantageously used by your own microbiome.

[withdrawn]

So does that mean that probiotic supplements do not necessarily have to be refrigerated, as they can even be "active" within the body, if they aren't alive?

[kurdishfella]

Dead probiotics would eventually become bad probiotics. But I've always wondered how do bacteria grow in untouched places like ceiling?