9 replies to this topic

[nicklesprout]

I'm trying to determine whether C60 will help my brain heal from long term Benzo usage. The idea is that benzos damage mitochondria,c60 helps them, thus,c60 can repair that damage.can anyone chime in on whether this would be a good or bad idea? What is making it confusing is the anecdotal reports of people saying it prevents them from getting drunk, and also others saying it doesn't really have much cognitive effect...

Thoughts?

[Turnbuckle]

C60 might help mitochondria function over the short term, but the real solution begins with understanding how the body maintains a healthy population of these organelles. Cells have a quality control system whereby they cull dysfunctional mitochondria (mitophagy), and by taking the right supplements you can enhance that natural process. See this post, and this one by Fafner55 who tried what might be an effective protocol. Supplements like C60 should be avoided when doing this, as they will likely hide poorly performing mitochondria from the culling process.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 13 February 2017 - 12:49 PM.

[nicklesprout]

thanks.  there is still experimentation going on it looks like.  is there any outcome on what protocol would be a good starting point? any recommendations? my brain is mush right now to try to dig through all the scientific literature that is in that long thread.  

[chinadoll]

I'm trying to determine whether C60 will help my brain heal from long term Benzo usage. The idea is that benzos damage mitochondria,c60 helps them, thus,c60 can repair that damage.can anyone chime in on whether this would be a good or bad idea? What is making it confusing is the anecdotal reports of people saying it prevents them from getting drunk, and also others saying it doesn't really have much cognitive effect...

Thoughts?

I'm trying to determine whether C60 will help my brain heal from long term Benzo usage. The idea is that benzos damage mitochondria,c60 helps them, thus,c60 can repair that damage.can anyone chime in on whether this would be a good or bad idea? What is making it confusing is the anecdotal reports of people saying it prevents them from getting drunk, and also others saying it doesn't really have much cognitive effect...

Thoughts?

[chinadoll]

Am not aware of the damage mechanism of benzos on mitochondria, quick survey of research literature was not forthcoming,
1 given that cells can become loaded with damaged mitichondria, secrete toxic substance and don't autophage
2 older people lose autophagy
3 eating a few tablespoons of organic wheat germ several tims a day for a couple of days gives spermidine which encourages autophagy but not to be prolonged by asthmatics hence the occasional hit
4 I have mitochondrial problems due to inhaled corticosteroids which incapacitate the end of the citric c acid cycle... can't find the hat info at the moment to see if C60 will resolve that
5. If I had benso damage to mito I would hop into the wheat germ source of spermidine, then into C60. If your mito are cleared of the benzo if attached, then new mitochondria can be made by division which are also ok. Clearly you say your benzo damage persists, so new mitos have not been free of the damage, you and I need a clean up of mitos back to fresh. Then mito multiplication of the nice default onesh

[sensei]

thanks.  there is still experimentation going on it looks like.  is there any outcome on what protocol would be a good starting point? any recommendations? my brain is mush right now to try to dig through all the scientific literature that is in that long thread.  

 

 

here is a link to my experience during a taper, it seemed that C60 may act as an adaptogen 

 

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=719387

 

 

It is a known phenomenon that massive doses (multiple grams per day) of ascorbate (salt form of Vitamin C) reduces or prevents withdrawal in many opiate addicts.

 

I currently use a low maintenance dose of diazepam (10 mg) daily or as needed -- for the management of Asperger's;  I have recently (within the last month) started taking 8-12 grams of liposomal vitamin C daily.  Some literature suggests that liposomal vitamin C dosage corresponds to FIVE or TEN times the oral dose -- because the liposome passes through the intestine/stomach into the bloods and then carries the ascorbate/AA into the cell.

 

Liposomal C causes no diarrhea even when I dose 8 grams at once (try that with powdered C - ha)

 

Sometimes I have gone 2 or 3 days without any diazepam with no sign of benzo withdrawal -- I attribute this to the Ascorbate, as I just re-started my C60 consumption a few days ago

 

 

Based on some recent papers regarding ascorbate and it's role in epigenetic demethylation  -- I propose that ultra-high dose (especially liposomal) ascorbate is causing morphological and epigenetic changes in the neurotransmitters associated with ethanol, benzodiazepine, and opiate addicitrion and tolerance that reverse the changes and reduce/remove withdrawal.

 

Of note -- many opiate addicts that used mega dose C to withdraw -- report a loss of tolerance as well -- this supports my proposal that massive doses of C 'reset' the neurotransmitters in the brain.

 

 

Lastly, pre-dosing megadoses of C in mice before MDMA (ecstasy) administration completely ameliorated any neuro-toxic effects; human users have reproted much the same protective and tolerance reducing effects of Mega dosing C with respect to MDMA -- which is a strong Serotonin and Dopamine releaser/re-uptake inhibitor that causes significant morphological changes to serotonin and dopamine receptors

Edited by sensei, 17 December 2017 - 04:14 PM.

[sensei]

thanks.  there is still experimentation going on it looks like.  is there any outcome on what protocol would be a good starting point? any recommendations? my brain is mush right now to try to dig through all the scientific literature that is in that long thread.  

 

 

One supplement that I used with great effect before and after my taper from benzos was bacopa monnieri

 

Here is a link to a study where GABA downregulation (what we see in long term benzo use) caused by pilocarpine injection in rats which downregulates GABA binding and causes epilepsy.

 

Seizures during benzo withdrawal are equatable to epileptic seizures.

 

 

Treatment with bacopa monnieri and carbamazepine reversed the reduced binding at GABA sites 

 

"Our experimental results support that decreased GABA receptors and GAD activity in the cerebral cortex comprise an important role in seizure initiation and mood disorders associated with epilepsy. We conclude from our studies that Bacopa monnieri and Bacoside-A treatment potentiates a therapeutic effect by reversing the alterations in general GABA, GABAA, GABAB receptor binding, GABAA receptor subunits, GAD and CREB gene expression that occur during epilepsy, resulting an increased GABA mediated inhibition in the over stimulated cerebral cortex neurons. Bacopa monnieri and Bacoside-A treatment also useful for managing the memory problems and mood disorders associated with the epilepsy. This studies showed the therapeutic significance of Bacopa monnieri, and its active component Bacocide-A in the management of epilepsy, associated mood disorders and memory problems."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3306740/

[sensei]

thanks.  there is still experimentation going on it looks like.  is there any outcome on what protocol would be a good starting point? any recommendations? my brain is mush right now to try to dig through all the scientific literature that is in that long thread.  

 

 

Here is a paper that discusses ascorbates in mediating glutamate neurotoxicity (a major cause of withdrawal symptoms in ethanol and benzo addicts due to GABA downregulation)

 

"For example, ascorbate has been shown to protect neurons from excitotoxicity induced by activation of the NMDA receptor and it prevented glutamate-induced cell damage and death in cultured cerebellar granule cells [132,133]. This could be due to redox modulation of the receptor itself by ascorbate [134,135], or to direct scavenging of ROS generated by receptor activation. A more severe stress of ischemia releases large amounts of ascorbate from brain cells [136], which is associated with glutamate uptake by neurons and glia [99,137]. Removal of extracellular glutamate by such a process, would also decrease excitotoxicity caused by activation of cell surface and synaptic glutamate receptors [15,104,138]."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2649700/

[Daniel Cooper]

How much bacopa were/are you taking and on what schedule?

 

Have you looked into BPC-157 for benzo recover?

 

 

 

[sensei]

How much bacopa were/are you taking and on what schedule?

 

Have you looked into BPC-157 for benzo recover?

 

 

I have no issues with benzodiazepines