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Need Timing advice on Bodybuilding Diet


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#1 hallucinogen

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 11:37 PM


My Goal: To Build lean muscle

I have:

Whey Protein
Casein Protein
Skim Milk
Glucose
Maltodextrin

Honey
Olive oil
Nuts
Bran Flakes, rice, spaghetti (complex carbs)

My question:

I am mostly concerned about the pre-workout, during work-out, post-work out food intake.
The more I read about, the more suggestions I get, and it gets really confusing when you put it all together even if I try to disregard the unreliable sources. Just would like to clear this up and get it straight. I weigh 210 lbs, 6"5 , fast metabolism, about 10% bf (less or more),
If anybody could be kind enough to also make a BRIEF food intake schedule for the day, that would be greatly appreciated, I work out at about 6-7pm to 8-9pm.

I would like to know, how I can combine all that I have into the most effective bodybuilding work-out diet, and also somehow take a few supps like L-tyrosine, Arginine, Citrulline Malate, Possibly Creatine Ethyl Ester, Taurine, HMB on an empty/almost empty stomach about 30-45mins before work-out (that's what I should do, right?) and with all that somehow fit in my pre-work out milk+whey protein shake (or maybe better for milk to be replaced with water?) to get the amino acids circulating.

Lately, I've been beginning to doubt if the pre-work whey protein shake is of any use at all, because it is not getting absorbed fast enough and might interfere with the other supplements (especially the milk might interfere) and it might actually do more harm then good, so I am thinking of replacing it with an Essential Amino Acids mix, and just take about 15g of it with the other supps on empty stomach before and after work-out. But I also must not forget about the simple (glucose), semi-simple (maltodextrin, and complex (bran flakes and such) carbs to supply to energy for the muscles to grow, because I would like to avoid like fire the breakdown of protein for energy, because it release toxic ammonia and is not being saved for muscle repairs then.

So, should I take any simple carbs (glucose/honey) right before the work-out?, take it dissolved in drinking water , sipping on it as I work-out for about an hour? , well it is pretty clear that one should take them right after the work-out though, so that's out of the question. But what about the rest, and its amount?, etc.

Also, should I drink casein protein as a slow digestion protein before the bed-time with or without milk or it will do more harm then good by stressing my digestion system for the whole night without giving it a break? And Should I drink a whey protein dissolved in milk or in water right when I wake up to kick-start the day ?;)

That's part of my question so far, please try to answer it, for it is really important :D Thanks!

#2 hallucinogen

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 11:45 PM

Also, would cycling protein on for 3 weeks (200g a day, split into 25g at a time), and off for 3 weeks (only 25g directly after work-out) could have any benefits?

#3 ajnast4r

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:01 AM

8am wakeup: 30g whey + probiotic

then get ready

9am complex carb breakfast(10g whey + oatmeal is good) + fat + multi + supps

11am mid-morning snack: fruit + opc/other fruit extract supp

1pm lunch: meal: complex carbs + food protein + fat + multi + supps

3pm... snack + opc/other fruit extract supp

5pm (30 minutes pre-workout)... 10g whey + green tea extract(full spectrum w/ caffeine)

5:30-7:30 workout + lots of water

immidiatly after workout... glutamine + 30g whey +(simple/complex carb for insulen spike.... dextrose/maltodextrin does the job)

8:30 (1 hour after workout)... meal: complex carbs + food protein + fat + multi + supps

10:30 snack... 20g whey + nuts + supps

11:30 bed... triphala + probiotic

make sure your consuming good quality whey...something processed at low temps, from cows not treated with horomones... no artificial sweetners(aspartame, splenda, sucralose, acesulfame k, etc), get it sweetened with stevia. "dream protein" is what i use.

i would avoid cassein protein. whey w/ a few nuts before bed will give you the same sutained release that cassein does. personally i would not eat before bed, although alot of bodybuilders do it... i wouldnt consider it a good thing for an extentionist.

drink your whey with water (aka, a man shake)... especially right after the workout.


thats alot of calories, ALOT of animal protein, and chances are alot of undigested food/digestive byproducts... i strongly recomend you start taking a good quality probiotic everyday, some ginger capsules with each meal, and a good assortment of extension supplements... realistically you probably wont be doing it forever, and its not a big deal...but this type of diet is bound to drastically decrease lifespan and set you up for disease.

Edited by ajnast4r, 15 February 2006 - 12:17 AM.


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#4 sentrysnipe

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:41 AM

I just skimmed through ajna's post, may I add one significant-

*must @ Bedtime*: ZMA or these 3 -- Zinc (monomethionine/methionine),
Magnesium,
P-5-P (B6) to promote anabolism.

#5 Shepard

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:16 AM

I would use free-form BCAAs (I like Scivation Xtend) at breakfast and immediately before/during/post exercise. This can add up, so substitute whey if you can't afford the BCAAs. I would use a scoop or two of whey around your workout, too. All other times, I would use cassein or lean meats. (This is assuming your main goal is to put on muscle, not necessarily from a pure health perspective.) I don't really care for spiking insulin post workout every time, but if you want...the book Nutrient Timing gives a decent argument for the formulas they suggest.

Carbs and fat are kind of up to you, they won't make that much difference from a pure mass standpoint (assuming you get adequate protein), although the ones you use will certainly affect your health in the long run.

Edited by shepard, 15 February 2006 - 04:40 AM.


#6 Karomesis

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:51 AM

ALCAR is a great add on to any workout regimen. I have found that it greatly reduces post workout recovery, and I work out very hard.

During your warmup, get on a stationary bike and go all out as hard as you can for 30 seconds, this will raise your GH to 400-500% baseline for 90 minutes post workout. [pritzgraff, 2000. Journal of sports medicine] And greatly increase your circulating testosterone levels as well.

Also, if you are not doing olympic weightlifting then you're missing out on some serious muscle building workouts. for info on this awesome workout check out this site http://www.lifttillyadie.com

#7 hallucinogen

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:37 AM

What work-outs?...




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