189 replies to this topic

[th3hegem0n]

Now I know why it took America so long to enter World War Two and save all of the Jews, as simple had pointed out so vehemently:

It's extraordinarily arrogant to hold the view that America, or any other country for that matter, has the right to interfere with the government of sovereign nations

Because of people like prometheus and simple.

You don't get it. There is no "right" involved here. There is simply Right, and Wrong. If it is *the right choice* (ie the most optimal decision) to invade someone, then we invade them, whether or not it is legal or it appeals to any other generalizations or heuristics like the one you list above.


However this is completely tangential to the point, because the *optimal decision* doesn't involve politics at all. In these days, politics isn't important. Nanotechnology is kind of important. Quantum computing is important. The Singularity is primary. Everything else is just a mundane detail.

It's like staring at an asteriod headed straight for Earth, and then turning around and getting in an argument about the color of socks you are wearing to go to dinner and a movie that night.

In movies if an asteriod is headed for Earth, people are running through the streets and stealing things, building bunkers, and the calling together the pool of the world's resources and man-power to undertake the single most important mission humanity has ever faced- no expense barred whatever the cost.

And all we have today is the little singularity institute. Despite facing remarkeably long priors, they have pulled off hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding from over 150 donors. But what is that compared to the movie's response to the asteriod. Hah.

If people really knew what the Singularity was all about, it would be just as proportionally more dramatic of a response over that of the asteriod about to hit Earth, as the Singularity is proportionally larger event than an asteriod. Which means that every single person would be devoting every single possible resource they could provide in order to make it happen as soon as they could possibly make it happen. The vast majority of what normal life is would fade into mundane detail.


Really.

[boundlesslife]

Quoting Infernity:

I fear. This world is no longer safe. We destroy ourselves and fanaticism is the last thing needed. But what can be done if the power element is deaf to preaches? What can be done? One atomic bomb and the world goes 'capish'. No place to go, nowhere to escape. We are so small, so unprotected.

One atomic bomb, and whereever it goes off, it's really bad! But for the world to go 'capish' you need more of what we had in the way of a standoff with the Soviet Union where one button-push might have triggered 10,000+ of them, delivered by ICBM's and other similarly sophisticated means. Then, the world would have really been in a bad way, for a long, long time. In that one respect, perhaps, the world is safer than it was twenty or thirty years ago. If a terrorist group did a "world trade center" type attack on one city, it would turn the world upside down psychologically, but it would be unlikely to bring about the kind of "nuclear holocaust" so well warned against by Carl Sagan in his "Cosmos" video series on public television, back during the worst days of the 'Cold War'.

But, nuclear weaponry is in some ways (now) like old time "battleships" of World War II with their 16 inch guns, as compared with our new "Aircraft Carrier" of killing, biological warfare. There, one test tube with just the right kind of "bugs" might selectively take out either just one species (humankind, for example) or perhaps even a more broader category (all mammals, maybe). That would really be the "end", of "life as we know it", not just for the time being, but for periods the scale of geological epochs.

How to "control" such warfare or even prepare for the survival of a small segment of mankind is not an easy thing to envision. In the early days of nanotechnology, it was envisioned that very sophisticated weaponry might be brought about, that would be more devastating than anything we might imagine in the way of biological warfare. Two short-stories were written in that time, that might stimulate the imagination of anyone who would like to read them:

Innerzones:  Suppose it were discovered that we had been "invaded" by microscopic war-machines created by a foreign power, set with a timer to go off a week or two later, and wipe us out?  How might we cope?  If a defense system were available, but politically, it was forbidden to be used, what might the developers of such a system elect to do, in view of the alternative (non-defense and death of the general population)?

ReCreation:  If all biological life on Earth were wiped out in a nanotechnology holocaust, what might happen then?  Might the tiny replicators that destroyed all biological life begin to evolve, by natural selection?  And, if they became sentient, what might they discover about the remains of human civilization?  How might they feel about that?  What might they do?

boundlesslife

[kevin]

I fear. This world is no longer safe. We destroy ourselves and fanaticism is the last thing needed. But what can be done if the power element is deaf to preaches? What can be done? One atomic bomb and the world goes 'capish'. No place to go, nowhere to escape. We are so small, so unprotected.

Infernity,

I read a book when I was your age called "The Fate of the Earth" by Robert Schell. This was before the fall of communism and during the arms race. After finishing the first part of the book which dealt with the collective insanity of allowing the possibility racial extinction to continue, I was deeply horrified. I had never really 'gotten' that literally EVERYTHING could vanish in a nuclear war.

After thinking about this for a long time, and waking up every morning after that for a long time, I realized that although the chance of it happening existed, it wasn't likely to happen 'that day' and the possibility should not paralyze me with fear as it was doing. I gradually realized that there were forces in the world which made the possibility of self-annihilation much less than I thought. Over time there were even developments which helped me believe that there was hope for the future, like the fall of the Berlin wall.

The current events in the Middle East will pass. How things turn out eventually will be a result of the summation of all the decisions and actions taken by all the participants. I personally believe that violence and force are tools which will prove (and have proven over and over and over again) to be ultimately ineffective in dealing with the situation. Other methods of influencing events should obviously be used but the desire for retaliation and revenge coupled with fear and the need for political expediency to satisfy those urges make it difficult for social responses beyond the sledgehammer of military force.

But they will pass. Unlike others I believe that it is better to build than to destroy. The two are not equal. We are not an entropic force as much as we serve to create and rearrange with the raw materials other aspects of reality so readily provide us. As I believe that fundamentally, we are 'extropic' agents (for lack of a better term), I believe that on balance the human race is fundamentally "good". I believe that the before mentioned summation of occurences in the Middle East will prove that the average person, no matter what cultural beliefs may separate them, value love, family, peace and a connection with reality that offers them the ability to grow. In other words, do what you can to promote peace and add your effort to those of others who are also trying. It the side of peace that will eventually win.

[JonesGuy]

However, the huge cost of an uncertain world is certainly slowing down progress. Every dollar spent on security is a dollar that has large opportunity cost. As well, uncertainty reduces investment. Sigh.

I see no way of reducing tensions and maintaining progress. But, a little attempt to be moderate can go a long way.

[rodentman]

Qjones, now your entering into my area of expertise.

The opportunity cost of security is high, but, the alternative is even more costly. Israel has spent huge amounts of money securing themselves. Their unbeleiveably expensive security wall in Hebron has cut terrorist attacks by 90%. Their airports are the securist in the world, and their instituions are fortresses. Why all the trouble? People who die from terrorism in the west is only a sliver of how many die from other preventable causes. One of the main resons, is to keep investors from getting spooked. Everytime they get bombed, the investment world pulls money out of their country.

I can't stress how conservative the international investors are. The months after 9/11, the money pulled out of the U.S. markets was staggering. Even if the potential risk isn't real, investors get spooked really easily. If too many investors pull out, their markets collapse, and the economy collapses.

RodentMan

[simple]

TH3HEGEMoN: quotes should be with in the context of the idea, if possible, No gobernment should have the rigth to interfere whith the actions of other foreign nations, (as long as those acts do not violate violate the rigths of sobereignity of other countrys and the individual rigths of the people) That is one of the reasons we have the United Nations, to be able to have some measure of control and restriction on gobernments that violate said rigths.

Also for your information 2 months before the invasion on IRAK, Saddam had proposed that for oil purchase and sales, to have the euro as the basic monetary
unit for all transactions. Given that is a larger economy, and the purchases of oil by the EC are much larger than any other country, also given that respective gobernments can in fact back up the currency (hard money), and that the value of the euro is superior than the dollar.

The prospects of such a change, if it had been instituted, would have torn our economy, there would have been millions and millions of dollars returned to the USA, causing a major inflation, that we could not had been able to pull out of, this would had affected our internal economy and our transactions worlwide for years to come.

That is reality, coincidentally we invaded couple of months later, one of the axis of evil (irak).

On regards to Singularity project..... Hell is paved with noble intentions, I am glad that people like you, have found their call in life, my motto is "Invest in yourself, so you can invest in others" I try to be as open an ever curious about all that comes in to my sigth, everyday I realize how much I still dont now, and how ignorant I still am, you should be just as humble

[th3hegem0n]

everyday I realize how much I still dont now, and how ignorant I still am, you should be just as humble

*Suppresses urge to retort*

coincidentally

[thumb]

[Infernity]

Kev, I fear this just a matter of time... sooner or later they will prevail. If that happens, aging will no longer bother us much.

*sigh* crossing fingers for a peaceful future.

-Infernity

[rodentman]

SIMPLE!!!!!

You seem like a good guy, but your forcing me to write my LARGEST POST EVER, so here goes.

RODENTMAN’s BIGGEST POST EVER!!!!!!!!!

ON THE THEORY OF U.S. ATTACKING IRAQ BECAUSE THEY WERE SWITCHING TO EUROS FOR THEIR OIL TRANSACTIONS.

Firstly, we shouldn’t forget that Sadaam only traded with much of the world after 96 when he took part with the U.N. sponsored, scandalous food-for oil program

At any rate let me explain how this all works. Countries that buy oil and other commodities almost exclusively use the U.S. dollar. Not, because the Oil suppliers want to hoard dollars, but so they can make their transactions simpler, using 1 currency, rather than the 100 currencies.

But what you gotta really understand is that countries selling oil aren’t stupid.

They almost always keep their deposits in short-term dollar deposits. Then they take those deposits and convert them back into their home currency, effetely negating the initial buying the dollar by the oil buyers. Essentially the U.S. dollar was used as a tool for trade, and after it was used, its sold.

The only reason an oil supplying country would NOT do that, is if they were trying to increase their own reserves in U.S. dollars, and this is a decision that has nothing to do with oil, and everything to do with a country having a stash of foreign currencies on hand to purchase their own currency with, in case they have a currency crisis.

We do the exact same thing. we hold dozens of foreign currencies as reserves, and we occasionally use those reserves to buy US dollars in order to artificially keep the dollar from falling.

The only thing Sadaam accomplished, was really to embarrass the U.S. a little bit. But the effect on the dollar in the long run would be minimal.

I heard this whole rumor too; from Goldmine. Pretty much everything that is broadcast from that infomercial is about entertainment and selling gold, and not about learning about investing.

By the way, Venezuela has switched to Euros, I think were going to attack them too.



ON THE U.N. RESPECTS OTHER COUNTRY’S SOVEIERGNTY

To that I have to say WHATTT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

In 98, NATO launched a military campaign to remove Milosivec from power in Serbia. This was done under FULL COMPLIANCE with the UN Security Council (Resolution 1199) , and with nearly no decent from any UN members.

Why did we do this???? Because of the ethnic Albanian persecution. How many had been killed?? 1500 – 5000 (depending upon who you believe). (Yes, there were a lot more displaced).

Milosivic WAS ELECTED. First, as President of Serbia by the National Assembly in 89, and then in the first free parliamentary elections of December 1990, Milošević's Socialist Party won 80.% of the vote. (Yes, I realized many of the ethnic Albanians boycotted the election).

Personally, I supported the U.S. campaign, and I am happy that NATO and the UN showed some balls. However, the one question you might have is….

WHY IS NATO AND THE U.N. IGNORING STATE SPONSORED MASSACRES 100’S OF TIMES WORSE?!?!?!?!?

The recent ethnic cleansing in Darfur killed 50,000 – 100,000 alone. Overall, the Sudanese genocide killed more than 2 million civilians ( most of them were Christians and indigenous worshipers being slaughtered by friendly muslims)

And after this, the U.N. won’t even levy sanctions on the Arab-dominated government. Why? Well, Annan believes that Sudan had "made progress”

In the 80’s, after the Iran – Iraq war, the Sadaam’s Baathists regime implemented anti-Kurdish policies. This ethnic cleansing included the use of chemical weapons such as the now famous Halabja attack in 88. Roughly 182,000 civilians were killed in the Al-Anfal Campaign alone. (figures from Amnesty International). using techniques that would have made Hitler proud and that even involved targeting children and babies. This was NOT a civil war, this was pure genocide.

THE U.N. NEVER even Acknowledged the wrongdoing, and No one did SQUAT!!!!!
The UN only finally got involved after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, and imposed economic sanctions on Iraq which lasted till the 2003 liberation (Oops, I meant invasion). The U.N. had since tried multiple times to abandon the sanctions, but pressure from the U.S. and a handful of other allies kept this from happening.

RodentMan

[rodentman]

Oh by the way, If you haven't guessed, I'm a Finance Professor.

RodentMan

[simple]

I stand corrected , but let me tell you Saddam did proposed the change from dollar to euros, that is not a theory. it is a fact!!

That the proposal was not for Irak alone, but his proposal was for all oil transactions by producing countries

That the "return" of millions of dollars in to the hands of US would cause major inflation, considering that our dollar has stop been back up by gold (or anything else, by that matter) from many years ago, (is just paper).

The funds that are currently hold as securitys by foreign banks are but just a fraction of the US money involved worlwide in oil transactions, that the posibility of oil producing countries to stop using Dollar as the favored currency for the transactions would cause havoc, is it not a real fear?

That Venezuela has received 2 "coup de etat's" directed by American Intelligence, and the same Intelligence has been supporting Venezuelas president opposition, because of his anti-american views. At this point it would be to evident for the US to do something in Venezuela, but they have tried.

That the UN has fail to live to the expectations , so did the League of Nations , still we are not the police of the world, and the invasion to IRAK was sudden and unjustified, there was no relation between the attacks on US soil and IRAK, that is common knowledge, that the terrorist were Saudi Arabian citizens is also known, that Osama is Saudi is also know, I have not seen action from US in that regard .

Are this decisions biased??


I work in a car wash.

[mitkat]

I'm a Finance Professor

You're kidding..?

Hahaha! Oh man, if this is true, it's hilarious. It goes a long way to explain some of the things you've tried to put forward. Are you thinking, "hey, lousy muslims are against good, hard-working Americans like me, they've got it all wrong, they don't understand me at all! I work hard for my gas-guzzlin' SUV, latest supercomputer, etc, etc. I know what's best for America, and thus everyone. I consume as much as I can, muslims are ignorant and don't get it!"

The truth is, they understand you TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY. That's why the world at large doesn't like you [thumb]

p.s quit asking me out for a date.

[mitkat]

On rregrds to your question, about my american statements, many people have fougth very hard to attain the liberties of expression that today we enjoy, we were not guided, and many times we made mistakes on the way, but today, even with all thre problems that we have this is but one of the few countries that allows for more freedom of expression and INDIVIDUALITY, we can talk and express ourselves, with out any fears of retaliation, there is no political oppresion, there is no religious oppression, there is no economic oppression, you can go out and do pretty much anything that you want, is it not so?

You can talk print distribute express anything with out fear of retaliation (more or less) , isnt that a sign of a civilized culture??

There is no other country that people that had suffer oppresion they would rather migrate to, because here there is room for everybody, every belief and every creed.

Yes even for you!!

Yes, many people have died for your country, that is for damn sure. It's up to you to guage the necessity of their sufferings and was it worth it? There are literally thousands of examples of this, body bags of your militarized youth, pushin' up daisies.

Do you honestly believe that under Bush you live in a country with NO forms of oppression? That is a true crock. And you're right, you can go out and do anything you want, except adopt kids if you're gay (what you would like), be any kind of "deviant" (which is morally subjective as fuck), or do anything to protest any ideals of "popular" gov't unless you like getting pepper-sprayed in the face and having your phone tapped. Sounds like you'd rather live in a utilitarianism fantasy-land.

And I don't need an invite, I'm good, because I live in the country that people that had suffered oppression or are looking for unbiased opportunity would rather migrate to, it's called Canada. You might of heard of it?

I am in no way against America, we all used to be buddies. But prejudice hopefully will die out before the death meme.

[rodentman]

Boy MITKAT, You are right!!!!

In fact, I typically put all my muslim students in cages, and we pee on their Qurans. Then I draw cartoons of muhammed peeing on the Quran. Then I drive my SUV's over all my Muslim students as I force them to draw Muhammed peeing on the Quran. Oh yes, and then I pepper-spray them, force them to adopt gay children, and then we all buy supercomputers together.

OK, I give up, I'll stop asking you out on a date.

RodentMan

[rodentman]

Hey SIMPLE, hey, we both agree on the UN… cool!!!

Firstly, that bit about the rest of the Mid-East following Sadaam’s lead is just untrue. Remember Sadaam was only exporting only roughly $10 Billion of oil a year under the Food-for Oil program.(1/20th OPEC’s total output).

In Jan 2004, OPEC WAS considering a move away from using the U.S. dollar — and to the Euro, to set its price targets for crude oil. Their consideration made sense since the dollar had dropped so significantly; especially since the previous 2 months (Nov/Dec 2003) were some of the worst drops for the dollar in recent memory.

However, since the last year, they have abandon this proposal, since the Euro has started to fall again. OPEC’s considerations really had nothing to do with any correspondence with Saddaam from his prison cell; but because of common business sence.
.
Again, the reason why everything is pegged to the dollar is because of its unusual resilience to changes. However, in reality, it’s a currency, and is just as prone to change in its value due to speculation; just like the Euro.

Even if the GOLD-Guys are right on their speculation, I’m telling you, it will not collapse our economy, it will have only a minimal effect. Like I said, after the dollars are used for the purchases, they are sold by the supplying country for their home currency.

If you don’t believe me, you can look at how the U.S. markets reacted to OPEC’s announcements that it was considering using the euro was on January 12, 2004
If this was extremely detrimental to the U.S. dollar, we should see an unbelievable collapse of the dollar and an equally GIGANTIC jump in the value of the EURO. However, throughout January, there is very little change in either currency.

All of this propaganda is being pushed by the Gold-brokers. Again, these guys make Michael Jackson seem truthful. They also make my job tough since a lot of my students believe their brand of Paraeconomics.

I'm going to be really busy over the next week, so I might not be able to respond for a bit. At any rate, I love this thread, and I love MITKAT even more.

RodentMan

[simple]

MITKAT : You nevr answer my question if you had a choice would you mind having your kid adopted by gays or normal couples ? (be honest now)

For the record I am not american, nor a citizen of this country,

I migrated from a country that had three coup d' etat by the age of 15, I had tasted much to often the tear gas burning on the back of my throat and eyes, where political oppresion is having the police pay you a visit at midnigth, where tabaco, sugar and coffe are black market items, where cooking oil was a donatin from the US, where beans and rice were a commodity, where meat was brougth in from the farms in a luggage case, because you could not find any in the stores, where in order to buy from the markets you had to had a card indicating that you were a member of the ruling party. Where you saw bodies ojn the streets, where people get pickup from the street, beaten taken away, never to come back . Where political indoctrination is the main subject at primary school, same indoctrination could be found for kids in the TV childrens programs.

Do you have any knowledge of what is it I am talking about do you know what opression means to you in a daily basis, do you know what it is to consider a luxury to find sugar or white bread ?

You have no knowledge what oppresion is my friend, until some cop, just because, grabs you by your pretty hair and then proceeds to beat the crap out of you, and then you dont look or feel so cool, actually your rigth down scare my friend, more so when they put you on the bus, you have to seat all the way to the back, but first you take the walk, the cops sitting down, take turns hitting you with the butt of their guns, you are luky if you can make it walking, after a couple of days on the joint, they call your parents to pick you up, till next time around.

I think that makes me a citizen of the world, I know of no country where this has not happen

Please, do not define the achievements and nature of America and its people, by basing your judgement on the present government .

It would be as an irresponsible of a statement as to judge the achievements and nature of the people of China, basing my judgement on its communist totalitarian government, and I have lived on China and Hong Kongh (the place is great)

As I mentioned earlier , America is not Bush, the feelings and sentiments of the nation may not be the same for its government .

The events that you mention and slow deprivation of liberties, is something new for us, but it is a common happening in other countries, we did not started this chain of events, nor do I believe we will be able to stop it.

Still, I know of isolated cases where people would rather migrate to Canada, instead of USA, but, if I were to go to a country with a 3rd world economy, I can always swing by Mexico compadre.

RODENT: very good ! That bit about running over the muslims, I know you got that from the Tiannamen Square, yes??

(peace trough superior fire power HUMBEES)

[mitkat]

MITKAT : You nevr answer my question if you had a choice would you mind having your kid adopted by gays or normal couples ? (be honest now)

I couldn't tell you, because I wouldn't put up my children for adoption - but I don't see a problem with it. You have a obvious concern with the spreading of "gayness"...feeling a little insecure, are you? [wis]

Do you have any knowledge of what is it I am talking about  do you know what opression means to you in a daily basis, do you know what it is to consider a luxury to find sugar or white bread ?

You have no knowledge what oppresion is my friend, until some cop, just because, grabs you by your pretty hair and then proceeds to beat the crap out of you, and then you dont look or feel so cool, actually your rigth down scare my friend, more so when they put you on the bus, you have to seat all the way to the back, but first you take the walk, the cops sitting down, take turns hitting you with the butt of their guns, you are luky if you can make it walking, after a couple of days on the joint, they call your parents to pick you up, till next time around.

You have no knowledge of who I am or where I am from, so don't be so presumptuous, friend.

I think that makes me a citizen of the world, I know of no country where this has not happen 

*roaring applause*

Please, do not define the achievements and nature of America and its people, by basing your judgement on the present government .

I'm not, and I don't. But what can one expect when the government that in a democratic fashion represents people who riot and protest against it. Need I remind you of the Bush inauguration limousine having raw eggs tossed at it during the traditional walk to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? The first and only president in history that was actually scared of his public, his people, and had to sneak into the White House through the back. I thought the gov't represented the people, simple?

Please stop glossing over America, you are defining it by this mythical conception of it you hold. It sounds like Fivel, the naive immigrant child mouse from "American Tale".

It would be as an irresponsible of a statement as to judge the achievements and nature of the people of China, basing my judgement on its communist totalitarian government, and I have lived on China and Hong Kongh (the place is great)

? That is a ludacris comparison. You better fess up, because you could sell whatever you're smoking.

Still, I know of isolated cases where people would rather migrate to Canada, instead of USA, but, if I were to go to a country with a 3rd world economy, I can always swing by Mexico compadre.

This is simply hilarious. Your ignorance is totally incredible! You don't know anything about Canada. Canada is a country of immigrants, and one of the best countries in the world, by far! We are in the top-ranking countries for taking in immigrants, year after year. And unlike the states, we do not have specific quotas on immigration in respect to education, so yes, even you my car-washing friend, have a place here!

http://www.immigrati...boutcanada.html

Why don't you have a gander at this here website, it's pretty basic. Take a little time to learn about something before lathering on with the tired, corny Americana. You can't be for real, and I'm done with this sad exchange. You're a internet troll, and I'm just feeding you.

[bgwowk]

mitkat wrote:

I'm good, because I live in the country that people that had suffered oppression or are looking for unbiased opportunity would rather migrate to, it's called Canada.

A country where certain types of speech can get you thrown in jail, all forms of human cloning are illegal, and where supplements that can be freely purchased in the U.S. are banned.

Then of course there's the U.S., the nominally free country that per capita keeps more of its citizens in prison than any country in the world.

Let's be honest. By world standards, both the U.S. and Canada are among the least oppressive countries in the world. Compared to each other, though, it's a mixed bag.

---BrianW

[simple]

Tank u !!

Hey MITKAT, I love this man, I couldnt stop laughing , to me NOTHING is sacred,

I saw your pictures, (you and your girlfriend) you guys look like a cool couple, pls dont get upset, I enjoy the pleasure of the hunt, like any one else.

Friends ?

BQWOWK: you are rigth, no one is clean

[mitkat]

mitkat wrote:

I'm good, because I live in the country that people that had suffered oppression or are looking for unbiased opportunity would rather migrate to, it's called Canada.

A country where certain types of speech can get you thrown in jail, all forms of human cloning are illegal, and where supplements that can be freely purchased in the U.S. are banned.

Then of course there's the U.S., the nominally free country that per capita keeps more of its citizens in prison than any country in the world.

Let's be honest. By world standards, both the U.S. and Canada are among the least oppressive countries in the world. Compared to each other, though, it's a mixed bag.

---BrianW

Brian, I in no way am looking to bash the states or be blatantly pro-Canada, I was just shooting down what I considered to be some erroneous and over-simplified points glorifying the states and calling Canada a "third world country". You can agree that is ludacris.

And you know that those "anti-free speech" laws solely reflect on hate crimes, anti-semitic, anti-gay, strong hateful prejudicial views that infringe on the safety and quality of life of all citizens of Canada. No one, especially me is saying that it's perfect, but a reasonably moral person could and probably would argue those people belong in jail. And you'll find no one more pissed off than me that I have to work hard in getting my ALCAR.

It's totally a mixed bag, and I stated before I did want to get into a pointless US/Canada debate, but I think it's pretty obvious why I said what I said. I didn't mean to offend you.

[mitkat]

Tank u !!

Hey MITKAT, I love this man, I couldnt stop laughing , to me NOTHING is sacred, 

I saw your pictures, (you and your girlfriend) you guys look like a cool couple, pls dont get upset, I enjoy the pleasure of the hunt, like any one else.

Friends ?

BQWOWK: you are rigth, no one is clean

Well shit, if nothing's sacred, you should of said so in this first place! I wouldn't of bothered. But you are the reason I am weary of posting pictures on the internet. Enjoy your pleasurable hunt, if that's some sort of colloquialism. [tung]

[simple]

No truly, didn't mean to get any one piss off, the british use to held fox hunts, which actually were a total society happening, food,drinks, gossip, it was over when the fox got caugth, that is the reason I mention I like the hunt.
Im not such a stiff, ijoyned the forums, 'cause I have as much interest as all the rest of the group to share and learn, my field is electronics, specifically research and development of radio comm equip. I work for a government contractor, dont worry about the pictures, i would have some of my own posted, still have not figured out how to do so. ALL COOL ?

[bgwowk]

Mitkat wrote:

It's totally a mixed bag, and I stated before I did want to get into a pointless US/Canada debate, but I think it's pretty obvious why I said what I said. I didn't mean to offend you.

No offense taken. I just couldn't resist pointing out the ironies of both countries.

---BrianW

[biknut]

Remember the other day when I said,

"The fact remains space is the next frontier. It's going to take mega bucks to get us there. We need the resource's found in space so that's where we'll go. America is the leader in space. Bush is pushing us that way because somebody told him too. Whoever is the next president will do the same, and every one after that too. If you're young and trying to decide on a career choice, start thinking along these lines."

Now check this news out.

Profits set to soar in outer space
Prepare for liftoff: The space business may be the most incredible new opportunity of your lifetime.
By Chris Taylor, Business 2.0 Magazine
February 27, 2006: 3:39 PM EST


(Business 2.0) - Let's not wax sentimental about our space exploits thus far. The Apollo era was heroic, but beating the Soviets to the moon never provided a compelling economic reason to return. (We didn't even get Teflon or Tang as spinoffs--both were invented before 1960.)

Space spending soars
The shuttle and the international space station continued this record of dismal return on investment. Small wonder, then, that most private-sector investors have focused instead on more earthly pursuits. Only one thing will prod us into the cold, hard vacuum of space, and that's the prospect of earning cold, hard cash.

Fortunately, there's now a lot of that to go around. Worldwide government spending on space is soaring to $50 billion a year, a 25 percent jump over 2000. NASA represents only $16 billion of that total, but during the next 20 years, the U.S. space agency is likely to sign contracts totaling as much as $400 billion to launch a human mission to Mars.

We are also well into the commercial space age. In 1998, private-sector spending on space applications began to exceed government spending, and the gap is widening. A critical mass of entrepreneurs -- some with familiar names like Bezos and Branson -- have been backing space-related companies for years. In the coming months, their efforts will reach blastoff stage (quite literally). Some of the markets they're targeting, like the $4 billion satellite launch business being pursued by PayPal founder Elon Musk, are ripe for competition. But most, such as suborbital tourism, space hotels, and solar satellites, don't yet exist. All, however, have the potential to generate astronomical returns during the next decade.

Building infrastructure is the first step, and here historical analogies abound. The federal government is poised to begin contracting with the private sector to deliver cargo into orbit, a trend that could nurture a market for civilian spaceflight in much the same way that airmail contracts from the Post Office spurred the development of civil aviation a century ago. Prize money -- the incentive that launched Charles Lindbergh -- is now being offered for everything from building a machine to extract oxygen from lunar soil ($250,000) to building an aircraft capable of delivering tourists to orbit by 2010 ($50 million).

Opening up the Wild West

Meanwhile, new technologies are opening up new possibilities. Consider the space elevator, which is enabled by the advent of lightweight carbon nanotubes; a 62,000-mile elevator to the heavens would reduce orbital freight costs by 98 percent and open up space just as the railroads opened up the Wild West.

The long-term possibilities are even more celestial. Ever heard of 3554 Amun? It's a space rock about 2 kilometers in diameter that looks as if it might have fallen straight out of The Little Prince. There are three key things to know about 3554 Amun: First, its orbit crosses that of Earth; second, it's the smallest M-class (metal-bearing) asteroid yet discovered; and finally, it contains (at today's prices) roughly $8 trillion worth of iron and nickel, $6 trillion of cobalt, and $6 trillion of platinumlike metals. In other words, whoever owns Amun could become 450 times as wealthy as Bill Gates. And if you time your journey right -- 2020 looks promising -- it's easier to reach than the Moon.

That doesn't mean it's easy, of course; nothing worthwhile ever is. The automobile, commercial air travel, the PC, the Internet, the cell phone -- all took decades to reach their full potential, and none would have taken root without stubborn entrepreneurs who refused to heed conventional wisdom. The greatest barrier to the open markets of space isn't physical or technological; it's psychological. But for those who have the right stuff, the rewards may prove greater than anything the Apollo astronauts ever imagined.

http://money.cnn.com...intro/index.htm

[simple]

How about deep ocean exploration ?? There are just as many riches and unknowns
and challenges, and basically equipment that you can develop for deep diving can also be used for deep space ?

[simple]

How about deep ocean exploration ?? There are just as many riches and unknowns
and challenges, and basically equipment that you can develop for deep diving can also be used for deep space ?

[JonesGuy]

Deep ocean is a gold mine, because it looks like there is literally tons and tons of organic detritus down there, that has been (mostly) taken out of the ecosphere. Mining this detritus represents a goldmine of life-giving materials.

[biknut]

It does seem like a lot more trouble to go into space than exploring the ocean, but for some reason we seem to always be looking up instead of down. My guess is we probably will do both it due time.

[simple]

MITKAT, how much is the cost of ALCAR in Canada?