30 replies to this topic

[opales]

http://nutraingredie...ice-polyphenols

[biknut]

So I assume there is some very slight amount of resveratrol in concord grape juice? But that's now what they thinks going on here?

[simple]

Common, they been saying that for years, wine keeps you A-OK, and they do use conxcord grapes!!

[Shepard]

There is more to grapes than resveratrol. That is like saying EGCG is the only important part of teas.

I agree with the "whole is greater than parts" in most situations.

[biknut]

What I wonder about resveratrol is how much do you really need. If grape juice or wine has effect it doesn't seem like you need very much. I'm not all that sold on mega dosing supplements.

[syr_]

I dont want to pimp it (I alreaady did two times lol)... the AOR Grape product I take has both grape extract and resveratrol.

[xanadu]

I eat lots of grapes, I eat them every day. If juice has a little, then whole grapes have a lot. Mediteranian people didn't get their good health from taking mega doses of resveratrol, they got it from small amounts of wine and grapes.

[simple]

i thougth mediterranean people got it from using olive oil !!??

[biknut]

Getting supplements from food, what a novel idea!

[DukeNukem]

I eat lots of grapes, I eat them every day. If juice has a little, then whole grapes have a lot. Mediteranian people didn't get their good health from taking mega doses of resveratrol, they got it from small amounts of wine and grapes.

It doesn't quite work that way, Xanadu. For example, just as the yearly production of an olive tree is only about four liters of oil, it takes a vast quantity of grapes to make a bottle of wine. Wine is essentially a grape extract, and is very concentrated. To get an adequate quantity of resveratrol from grapes alone would make you fat from all of the sugar calories. Grapes are not a healthy way to get resveratrol in sufficient quantity. That's too bad, too, because kids could likely benefit from grape consumption. Tomatoes are another example, in that they are a poor way to get adequate amounts of lypocene -- tomato sauce (concentrated tomatoes) is far better.

The whole foods approach sometimes comes up short, unfortunately.

[xanadu]

Duke, while I respect your advice on many things, I believe you may be mistaken about wine

"it takes a vast quantity of grapes to make a bottle of wine. Wine is essentially a grape extract, and is very concentrated."

Wine making is not that hard. Basicly, you let grape juice stand until it ferments. Voila, wine! Of course there are many twists and turns. Leave the grape skins in while it ferments and you have red wine. Take them out first and you have white. Add sugar and you have fortified wine with greater alcohol content. They do not boil it down and concentrate it. Distilling would lead to spirits, not wine. Hasn't anyone here made homemade wine?

[DukeNukem]

Well, you may be right. But I thought I've read that wine contains a concentrated amount of polyphenols due to the processing. I'm not knowledgeable about wine making, so I don't know for certain, but it seemed plausible when I read it.

[xanadu]

The goodies we are interested are mostly in the grape skins. A glass of wine represents the juice from slightly more than that weight of grapes. Wine will have more reserveratrol in it than grape juice because the goodies from the skins have been extracted. However, eating the grapes should get out all the res instead of the amount found in equivilent amount of wine. I don't think the fermentation process is 100% efficient in extracting it. You could use more crushed grapeskins to make a redder wine but I've never heard of it being done. Grapes also have the advantage of not being alcoholic.

[DukeNukem]

Still, not a fan of all the sugar. That's why, when I eat blueberries, for example, I always go for the smaller wild blueberries, which have a higher skin per sugar ratio. If there are smaller grape varieties, I'd eat those over the plump grapes.

In any case, Longevinex is still the best choice, IMO. No sugar at all, and plenty of resveratrol. I'm just not a fan of sugar, including natural fructose from fruits/berries. When I eat strawberries (nearly everyday), I only eat the outside, and toss away the inner "meat," sort of like eating a small corn of the cob. Yep...I'm weird!

[simple]

XANADU, you are quite correct, the destilation process, would take anything with sugar and or starches (potatos) and then you have alcohol, during the process of destilation you eliminate higher alcohols and you are left with the drinking stuff, anyways you can just take alcohol, let it set in oak chips (partially carbonized) add coca-cola syrup, and voila, you got the best Kentuky Jack, is not as simple as it sounds, but you can do it in your house. (Cheers!!)

[xanadu]

Duke, do you eat bread, pasta, rolls and the like? If so, you are consuming mass quantities of sugar every day. Flour turns to sugar when eaten. It enters the blood stream more slowly than pure sugar but the sugar gets there all the same. I don't eat flour products and I'm not alarmed by small amounts in fruit though I'm careful not to eat too much high sugar fruit like dates, figs, etc.

Maybe there is a market for dried grape skins? Not raisins, dried skins which would not have the high sugar content of raisins.

[DukeNukem]

Xanadu, I mostly stay away from all grains, except whole oats every morning, and very rarely whole grain bread to make a turkey sandwich. Never pasta, never rolls, biscuits, crap bread, etc. And when I do eat anything in the way of a starchy food, I reduce the negative effect by first taking two of these:
http://www.lef.org/n.../item00673.html
Along with some white bean extract:
http://www.npicenter...14677&zoneid=28

[simple]

Why are we going this way, it is well known that pure chocolate is the food with the highest amount of antyoxidants and polyphenols, more than green tea or grapes!!

[DukeNukem]

Sure, cocoa is a superb source of antioxidants, and I eat 30 grams of cocoa powder plus nibs daily. But, the antioxidant polyphenols are different in cocoa versus green tea versus blueberries versus cinnamon versus grapes, on and on. Each have their own unique benefits.

[FunkOdyssey]

How do you eat 30g of cocoa powder? Mix it in a protein shake? And where do you get it?

[simple]

There is many sites that offer pure cocoa powder, unsweetened, if you prepare it as a hot drink, is as bitter as Mate herb, but you can also sweeten it with agave honey, which will not affect the sugar levels in your body.

If you were to go with it, you will notice after consumption a sudden burst of energy and calming effect, very cool

[DukeNukem]

Funk, I mix it in oatmeal, and in shakes. I buy unsweetened cocoa powder at Whole Foods. I also buy cocoa nibs, but I don't have the company name/link handy here at home.

[boily]

I eat about 20 grams of raw cocoa powder a day. I mix it in a shaker with cinnamon and alkaline ionized water, then use the liquid on oatmeal. I buy it at the grocery store. Ben

[FunkOdyssey]

I bought some raw organic cocoa powder and tried mixing it in a protein shake. I was surprised to note that a recommended serving (3 TBSP, 140 calories) contains 9g of fiber, holy crap (literally)!

This stuff does NOT want to mix in water, and either floated on top or stuck to the sides of the glass. It was clumpy and unpleasant.

I suppose you could add it to oatmeal, but since I already have a cup of blueberries in my oatmeal, and I drink a protein shake at the same time, I'd be ingesting a ridiculous amount of fiber in one meal and too many calories.

I'll try to think of other uses for it but for now, its sitting in supplement limbo with the rest of my half-used abandoned supps.

[mitkat]

Funk, I mix it in oatmeal, and in shakes.  I buy unsweetened cocoa powder at Whole Foods.  I also buy cocoa nibs, but I don't have the company name/link handy here at home.

Duke, although it would be a large undertaking, have you ever posted this infamous "Duke's delight" [thumb] morning shake you make everday? I'm sure everyone in the health forum would be interested as to it's ingredients, lest I speak for us all.

[tedsez]

Mix cocoa powder with hot water rather than cold or room-temperature, and you won't get the floating and clumping.

I've been drinking generic sugar-free hot cocoa mix lately. I'm sure there are a million reasons why it's far less healthy (fewer phytochemicals, more bad chemicals, etc.), but it sure is cheap and easy to prepare.

Does anyone know if milk in hot cocoa (or coffee, for that matter) prevents the antioxidants from being absorbed? I've seen conflicting studies on this.

[tedsez]

By the way, Dukenukem, thanks for the link to WellBetX fiber blend.

A few years ago I read about the benefits of Konjac (glucomannan) root, and I bought a kilo of the powder from a Japanese-American wholesaler. It's good for making pudding or adding texture to smoothies. (You have to be careful not to make it too thick, though -- a few years ago jelly desserts made from the product were banned after some kids choked on it.)

You can also find the stuff in noodle or block forms, packed in water, in Japanese markets, and it's used a lot in Japanese cooking. But while they're supposed to be tasteless, I found that these products had a weird fishy smell.

[trh001]

How do you eat 30g of cocoa powder?  Mix it in a protein shake?  And where do you get it?

Given:

"Endogenous cannabinoids in the brain and peripheral tissues: regulation of their levels and control of food intake"

and

http://antoine.frost...nandamide.shtml

I'm now curious, as well.

[zoolander]

Funk said

I bought some raw organic cocoa powder and tried mixing it in a protein shake. I was surprised to note that a recommended serving (3 TBSP, 140 calories) contains 9g of fiber, holy crap (literally)! wink.gif

This stuff does NOT want to mix in water, and either floated on top or stuck to the sides of the glass. It was clumpy and unpleasant.

Mix it with alcohol [lol]

I do not drink alcohol as I must be one of the unfortunate ones that has the slow alcohol metabolising isoform of ADH. It also lowers my blood pressure dramatrically. This is not a good idea for me considering my resting blood pressure is usually 100/60.

Dukenukem, I do not believe I have seen your morning shake recipe. Could you possibly post it for me matey.

I will trade you my morning meusli recipe

[guyledouche]

^speaking of alcohol, I used to make disgusting cheap wine out of grape juice when I was in high school. It did not have any life extension properties.