5 replies to this topic

[the big b]

Over the last couple of years, the literature has convinced me to prefer a high gamma form of Vit E, which I usually consume 400 IU/day with a meal containing fat. (I rotate between the following: Carlson's E-gems Elite, Vitamin Shoppe's High Gamma E, and Now's Gamma E complex).

This new research is a bit disturbing, but I'd like to take a closer look, and am hoping some of you could offer some theory as well:

3/7/2006 - Gamma-tocopherol, the major form of vitamin E consumed in the American diet, and becoming more popular in dietary supplements, produces metabolites that are toxic to cells, claims a new study.
http://www.nutraingr...yemtroznslkhwdf

This study looked at a metabolite of gamma tocopherols (gamma-Toc quinone), and the cytotoxicity thereof. It seems as though gamma-toc itself is not toxic, nor is alpha-toc or alpha-toc quinone (alpha tocopherol's metabolite).

The study used mice brain and skin cells, and monkey kidney cells. This may not be applicable to humans, as mice/human skin concentrations of gamma-toc vary by huge amounts.

The other issue to look at is tocopherols vs. tocotrienols, as this study focused on the former. Some good research has documented the benefits of the latter, such as:

Tocotrienols:
http://www.nutraingr...atherosclerosis

This particular study doesn't distinguish between the 4 totrienols however.

It seems as though quite a few variables exist, including the relevance of a metabolite being toxic vs. the actual compound being toxic...when the metabolite is water soluable and will be excreted anyway. Is any damage done before elimination? I have to instinctively raise an eyebrow at vit E research after that comical meta-analysis in '04...

Hoping some of you Vit. E experts can chime in with some discussion.

[FunkOdyssey]

The gamma-tocopherol study is already being discussed here:

http://www.imminst.o...t=0

Consensus thus far suggests its nothing to worry about. As you pointed out, they are talking about metabolites of gamma-tocopherol, not gamma-tocopherol itself. Also, there is already overwhelming evidence of gamma-tocopherol's positive effects. However, like most other beneficial supplements, too much may be counter productive.

[the big b]

Thank you very much Funk, I apologize for posting something already being discussed.

[FunkOdyssey]

Don't have to apologize, its a big news story and the title of that thread really didn't describe the contents well. It definitely merits some concern. I hope someone with a good grasp on the science like MR drops by to comment.

[Pablo M]

Every antioxidant has pro-oxidant potential. That is why vitamin E should be combined with another reducing agent like coenzyme Q10. The ideal situation is to take r-lipoic acid, vitamin E complex, vitamin C and coenzyme q10 at every meal; ideally one would include glutathione boosters like selenium as N'acetyl l-cysteine as well. Of course, this gets pretty expensive and you have to swallow a lot of pills. AOR has a product called Network Synergy that combines all these, but the r-lipoic acid is not in the form of a salt and is thus subject to polymerization. I used to use a mini Altioids container for my once daily high-pill stack, but now they don't fit in it anymore.

For a good introduction to the subject read The Antioxidant Miracle by Lester Packer: Amazon link

[drmz]

Every antioxidant has pro-oxidant potential. That is why vitamin E should be combined with another reducing agent like coenzyme Q10. The ideal situation is to take r-lipoic acid, vitamin E complex, vitamin C and coenzyme q10 at every meal; ideally one would include glutathione boosters like selenium as N'acetyl l-cysteine as well. Of course, this gets pretty expensive and you have to swallow a lot of pills. AOR has a product called Network Synergy that combines all these, but the r-lipoic acid is not in the form of a salt and is thus subject to polymerization. I used to use a mini Altioids container for my once daily high-pill stack, but now they don't fit in it anymore.

For a good introduction to the subject read The Antioxidant Miracle by Lester Packer: Amazon link

Looks alot like my stack :

Vit E + Vit C + R-ala + Q10 + NAC + P5P + Ashwagandha + Fish Oil + Rhodiola, L-theanine + Astaxanthin

What is the recommend dose of Vit E when sporting 5 times a week ?