77 replies to this topic

[Luna]

I doubt stargate or wrap drive can work.. but hey!

I think stargate is cool because you only need to leave it there and then the travel is pretty much instant So,, build a wrap drive, get there faster, build a stargate, get there even faster!

[treonsverdery]

╝

look at what I found viewing the source
\\ <occult humor> </occult humor>

you know how people talk about wildcardgate as a scandal well *gate is colanguage with the notion that stars are scandalous

stars are among a variety of things energy diagrams

I think that when people mutiny sufficiently to reject (s)tars they will have the white light energy to make travelfasterthanlightdoors

Talk about pattern magic

mutiny

I have recently communicated with numerous persons capable of sending thoughts; when they reject their tradition they can just use the same techniques to be measured to see if their effects are faster than light with that beginning comes faster than light travel; I have heard these people described as stars "s tars" when they reject S sufficiently to actually technologize their abilities the faster than light benefit is creatable

I think that an adept telepath, given a task of communicating some variant on "oil" should just say, technologize this. even scribes welcomed word processing; time to mutiny beyond variations on "fuck you motherfucker" to at least get to "motherfucker has a suggestion I could use if I mutinied" then "motherfucker says an actual mother is a human able to bear live young plus nurse them, that perhaps the phrase "fuck you human being trying to rescue humans" would be more accurate; then if they mutiny sufficiently to think on it they could reach the "rescing agent; our preference is thing"

they could even describe the thing

Edited by treonsverdery, 04 June 2010 - 01:36 AM.

[bobdrake12]

This is interesting.

Any comments?

http://www.unitel-qh...&id=1&Itemid=11



Aerospace

Intro



Unitel, Inc. will provide mankind with the first practical interstellar transportation system. Based on our patented laser lens and specifically shaped hull, our aerospace propulsion system will feature two modes of transportation: Electromagnetic propulsion, which will be used for short-range interplanetary travel, while elastic tunneling will allow interstellar travel throughout the universe.

The Unitel's Type VI MOSS Vehicle requires the three-part laser lens and charged hull to produce specific quantum effects in order to be used for propulsion. MOSS (Macroscopically Observable Superconductive State) pertains to a system that is observable on a large-scale, yet bound to the same quantum laws as a subatomic particle. The fact that atoms or particles can exist on a macroscopic scale was recently proven with the creation of a Bose-Einstein condensate, a proven MOSS system. Unitel's Type VI vehicle is itself a MOSS system.

On a subatomic level light can be viewed as a light string, where one end point is moving at the speed of light. The projected plasma of the laser assumes the role of a macroscopic light string. Our vehicle will traverse the light string like a photon. This can be considered electromagnetic propulsion, because we utilize a quantum mechanical function intrinsic to monopoles, in order to generate a strong magnetic attraction. Dr.'s Raymond Chiao and Akira Tomita were able to physically measure quantum monopole-like effects.

For traveling huge distances, such as from earth to the nearest solar system, our ship will tunnel. Tunneling is a commonplace phenomenon at sub-nuclear levels and occurs in semiconductors, nuclear fusion, and the tunneling electron microscope. Unitel will use the lens to generate electromagnetic bucking waves, denoting a direct interaction with the zero point energy (ZPE). The ZPE is found in the vacuum of space. It is referred to as zero point, because the energy is not thermal in nature. The ZPE consist of random quantum fluctuation. Acting as a single giant electron, the Unitel spaceship will tunnel through the fabric of spacetime to arrive at a calculated destination. The same distance could take eons to travel by conventional means. In this manner, our vehicle will demonstrate superluminal or faster than light capabilities.

Scalar fields fill the Universe and mark their presence by affecting the properties of elementary particles. Scalar fields in nature can generate mass by the expansion of the wave length of quantum fluctuations. Large fluctuations such as those produced by our propulsion system may alter the observed properties of physics. The Unitel vehicle with its charged hull surface and projected laser plasma will polarize the scalar field underlying the elementary particles in our Universe and organize the quantum fluctuations coherently to make them large enough to alter physics locally in order to provide instantaneous translation from one spacetime coordinate to any other.

[Luna]

It looks like promises I think there were quite a bit of physics breaking promises recently that it's a bit hard to expect for anything when reading this kind of stuff. Hope is always nice though.

[Reno]

Either way you go, I want to see full molecular nanotechnology before we go to the stars. That includes mature nanotechnology based medical care, and a mobile Molecular assembler. To go to the stars without such insurance would be extremely risky if not completely disastrous.

Edited by Reno, 26 June 2010 - 06:45 PM.

[niner]

Either way you go, I want to see full molecular nanotechnology before we go to the stars. That includes mature nanotechnology based medical care, and a mobile Molecular assembler. To go to the stars without such insurance would be extremely risky if not completely disastrous.

Something tells me that we will have advanced nanotech before Unitel gets their ship off the ground. It would certainly be cool if they could do it, though.

[ChromodynamicGirl]

While I can't claim omniscience as to the future, there simply is no plausible scenario to ever get access to the huge amount of purely theoretical materials and absurd amounts of energy that would be required to do this. What it takes to warp space to any appreciable degree is higher energy concentration than the sun, on the level of black holes. And without a preexisting warp-drive there is no way you could ever move these elements together in such a vast amount to do this. You'd also need something like strange matter to keep a warp stable, and you quite simply can't go into a neutron star and pull stuff out. And even if you could, you could never move it anywhere. If you try to use a black hole the accretion disk will pellet you with particles with such intense energy that no possible material could withstand it without being destroyed.

I don't understand why so many transhumanists have such baseless beliefs about physics. Reality isn't comic books, there are some things which simply are not possible. Even if we don't know what they are, the very fact that there are certain physical laws at all entails certain other things can not be done. STL travel is what we're going to be stuck with, and I don't see why this is such a problem. There is plenty of room in our own solar system; eventually you could send robots off to other solar systems to go from nearby stellar mass to nearby stellar mass, but even then their activities and communications are going to be confined to the local region.

Edited by ChromodynamicGirl, 12 October 2010 - 04:34 AM.

[kurt9]

The plausible contenders for a propellant-less space drive, FTL, or wormhole are:

1) Mach effect - Mach-Lorentz Thrusters and traversable wormholes (Woodward and March)
2) Extended Heim Theory (Droescher and Hauser)
3) QVF/ZPF (Puthoff, Haisch, and Davis)

[treonsverdery]

eww I just had this image then a phrase I figured it out appear at my brain
I think an unknown kind of thing may have amplified my thinking ability

thus just maybe this is like a human glimpsing diagrams from a different intelligence


It goes like this

first ask
what would space have to look like to make a warp drive function
then viewing that kind of dynamic picture which is kind of like a reverse exponential fractal like, the appearence of anisotropic complexity is higher at a particular direction which grows at an exponential rate (you notice how people use the word exponential yet omit saying what number they are using as an exponent) then at that geometry the potential energy of following or avoiding the fractal bulge of material is higher than the stationaryizing effect now im getting this image which I think is kludge of a curved triangle whe the three corners actually curve up n around the meet at the center. (I think its a kludge cause the giant triangle thing just likes people to say triangle a lot)

if you visualize a thing going around thesides of the corner angles of the same time it eventually appears at the base


actually ill phrase this differently
visualize a travelling structure that causes more space than 3 space that you could follow, then the opposite of that is travelling linear use the geometric oppoverse of that same geometric process to describe a more direct than linear path from 3dness



theres a nifty song with the phrase "I dont go too fast but I goes pretty far" thatsuperfits yet the actual phrasing that superfits the idea is "it doesn't go too fast but it goes pretty far"

 potato wearing radioactive bikini with camel toe or warp drive.jpg   37.92KB   11 downloads

also there appears to a diagram of a potato wearing a radioactive bikini with visible camel toe complementing the idea
(that might be a result of the giant potato wearing a radioactive bikini with visible camel toe thing just likes people to say potato wearing a radioactive bikini with visible camel toe a lot)

among the possibilities view the radioactive bikini wearing potato as surfaced with fractal trianges defined with unlike other fractals edge whatsanotherwordforsolid yet center highly surfaced area superfractal You could slide along the outer edges traversing less distance than anything near the center of each triabgular part of the radioactive bikini ()()() then YOU travel like an upside down tripod opening while the radioactive bikini wearing potato thing just is a spatial gradient getting there faster than any light path on the surface of the potato wearing a radioactive bikini

the thing is that the traveller has to be made of three parts That might translate as three attributes or dimension or equation letterobjects

Just start with the knowledge that the warp drive is less complicated than the alternative then describe a technology to avoid the alternative

[Turnbuckle]

I completely agree that escaping our solar system is inevitable if we intend to survive indefinitely. Again, about FTL: it is possible to the traveler, but any stationary person would observe the traveler going at most the speed of light, which is what causes time dilation.

The only two ways that I could see getting around time dilation are wormholes or quantum teleportation, and neither of those may even work let alone get around time dilation. Also, quantum teleportation, like "regular" teleportation would kill a person, so that's not the greatest of ideas. No, I think that we'll have to settle with light speed travel and deal with time dilation. After all, aren't we planning to be immortal?

Time dilation isn't the problem, it's the solution. For a ship traveling at a speed close enough to the speed of light, time slows down. Travel close enough to C and it's possible (in principle, at least) to get from one end of the galaxy to the other in just a few years of ship time. It's a sort of immortality as a hundred thousand Earth years will pass during the voyage. Civilizations will come and go, so there won't be any point in going back.

[William.Lilt]

Yes, although a long way off.

[MrHappy]

This was interesting: http://m.yahoo.com/w...=US&.lang=en-US

Edited by MrHappy, 25 September 2012 - 01:55 PM.

[treonsverdery]

try this
Cherenkov radiation http://en.wikipedia....enkov_radiation is the radiation that happens when neutrinos pass through matter faster than the speed of light, as wikipedia will note

so the idea is, how thickly constructed does matter have to be to have the minimum refractive index to produce faster than light cernekov radiation

like visualize a gas that produces cernekov radiation, then dilute it to a vacuum, at some place along that continuum cernekov radiation might cease to be produced. That is one version of the minimal density of matter necessary to permit faster than light travel of information via neutrinos. Now view a map of the cosmos, which areas of the cosmos like interstellar plasma clouds are actually above the minimum density to produce cernekov radiation from neutrinos, those areas can communicate faster than light using current physics technology.

Now to make it niftier you could see if there is a path between transmissive areas with vacuum insterstices that is a geometry different than a line that actually transmits data faster than a line through pure vacuum or vacuum with occasional ftl data plasma.

Thus people here that go with the idea that sending a datagram version of who they are to a far place faster than light is like travelling faster than light can do so, particularly at particular regions of space.


 250px-Advanced_Test_Reactor.jpg   11.77KB   0 downloads

a public domain idea

so, how many neutrinos, interacting with what substrate or field, are required to produce a spin identical atom? figure that out then you can transmit quantum identical matter between an orginal or a template to a far place. The transporter, faster than light

Edited by treonsverdery, 26 September 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[Guest]

try this
Cherenkov radiation http://en.wikipedia....enkov_radiation is the radiation that happens when neutrinos pass through matter faster than the speed of light, as wikipedia will note

But you DO note, that you are talking about the speed of light for a specific medium. In theory you can create meta-materials which light passes as slow as an airplane - but this is not what we are usually reffering to when one is describing FTL-travel. Here we mean the speed of light in VACUUM.

As of our understanding of relativity - which is very well tested and verified empirically - nothing can be faster than light in vacuum without breaking causality. Put simply:

"Relativity, Causality, FTL - choose any two."

As we are damn sure that relativity and causality are basic foundations of the laws of physics FTL is not possible - not even usable wormholes. Note that I am saying "usable", meaning the least thing you should be able to do would be FTL communication which is not possible with accepted theories of wormholes. The same applies to quantum teleportation and of course any kind of FTL-travel.


Just try to accept, that it'll take dozends or hundreds of years (from earth's reference frame) to travel to the nearest planetary systems that could sustain human life, no matter how advanced our technology will be.

[Turnbuckle]

Just try to accept, that it'll take dozends or hundreds of years (from earth's reference frame) to travel to the nearest planetary systems that could sustain human life, no matter how advanced our technology will be.

And what difference does earth-time make to the people on the ship if they don't intend to come back? If you had the technology to accelerate at 1 g continuously, you could travel 18,000 light years in 40 years ship-time.

[Guest]

And what difference does earth-time make to the people on the ship if they don't intend to come back?

The "if" is the important part. I will not rule out, that someday there will be practical technologies for very high relativistic velocities - though you could argue, that you could as well put the travelers in some kind of hibernation to spare them 100 years of claustrophobia in low speed travel.

But note that this would be a very different travel from what you see in your common SciFi-movie. You would be largely if not completely disconnected from the society and people that stay behind. Every message takes dozends or hundreds of years, making communication with your relatives practically impossible. Even communication between Europe and its colonies in Australia and Oceania back in the 18th century would be "fast" in comparison.

[Turnbuckle]

And what difference does earth-time make to the people on the ship if they don't intend to come back?

The "if" is the important part. I will not rule out, that someday there will be practical technologies for very high relativistic velocities - though you could argue, that you could as well put the travelers in some kind of hibernation to spare them 100 years of claustrophobia in low speed travel.

But note that this would be a very different travel from what you see in your common SciFi-movie. You would be largely if not completely disconnected from the society and people that stay behind. Every message takes dozends or hundreds of years, making communication with your relatives practically impossible. Even communication between Europe and its colonies in Australia and Oceania back in the 18th century would be "fast" in comparison.

This is exactly right, and it may explain why there isn't one galaxy wide empire by now. Interstellar travel will always take far too long by planetary time to maintain any sort of control.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 27 September 2012 - 02:48 AM.

[maxwatt]

I've seen estimates it would take only 50,000 years for humanity to populate the habitable planets in our galaxy, even traveling at sub-light speeds. Or would it be humanities? Evolution could happen fast enough under adaptation pressures from non-earth environments, that non-interbreeding versions of the human genome could arise. That another species has not already populated the galaxy does not mean such travel is impossible, it might mean that intelligent life is an extremely unlikely occurrence.

But back to warp-drive: http://www.engineeri...ser-to-reality/ the news release
http://ntrs.nasa.gov..._2011016932.pdf The paper at NASA


A doughnut shaped ring of exotic matter could warp space so that though light speed is not exceeded in space, space itself can warp faster than light. I don't know know if this makes sense, but check it out. They estimate speeds of 10x light (warp 10?) can be attained with an exotic matter mass equal to 500 kg. They are proposing low-mass table-top experiments to see if the idea works.

But at Warp 10, it does seem possible to colonize any habitable planets in our immediate vicinity of several light years, and once established they could go on to start new colonies further out. 50,000 years. But why stop with one galaxy? Galaxies are much closer to each other relatively, than are stars....

http://ntrs.nasa.gov..._2011016932.pdf

Dr. Harold “Sonny” White
NASA Johnson Space Center
2101 NASA Parkway, MC EP4
Houston, TX 77058

Abstract:
This paper will begin with a short review of the Alcubierre warp drive metric and describes how the
phenomenon might work based on the original paper. The canonical form of the metric was developed
and published in [6] which provided key insight into the field potential and boost for the field which
remedied a critical paradox in the original Alcubierre concept of operations. A modified concept of
operations based on the canonical form of the metric that remedies the paradox is presented and
discussed. The idea of a warp drive in higher dimensional space-time (manifold) will then be briefly
considered by comparing the null-like geodesics of the Alcubierre metric to the Chung-Freese metric to
illustrate the mathematical role of hyperspace coordinates. The net effect of using a warp drive
“technology” coupled with conventional propulsion systems on an exploration mission will be discussed
using the nomenclature of early mission planning. Finally, an overview of the warp field interferometer
test bed being implemented in the Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory: Eagleworks (APPL:E) at the
Johnson Space Center will be detailed. While warp field mechanics has not had a “Chicago Pile” moment,
the tools necessary to detect a modest instance of the phenomenon are near at hand.