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Sick and tired of my anhedonia

anhedonia flat affect

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#1 Referer

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:42 PM


Hi there!

 

I'm sick and tired of my anhedonia. I've been researching for a very long time now. I've been experimenting with supplements, drugs, meditation, mindfulness, diet: you name it. I've had ZERO result. I'm getting quite desperate to be honest. A couple of months ago I reached an absolute bottom where I tried to commit suicide.. While researching I came across this site a lot, so I hope there is someone who can help me with this. I'm going to give as much relevant information as possible. English is not my first language, so apologies for any mistakes.

 

I'm a 27 year old male, 1.80m, 73kg. I play football (soccer) three times a week.

 

Long story short: my life has been dull. 2 years ago I had my first relationship and my whole world changed. I really enjoyed life for the first as long as I could remember. After the infatuation phase, everything deteriorated again. Now my relationship has finished, and I'm back to square one.

 

I'm in treatment right now, but I only had an intake. September 1 I have my next appointment in which I have to take some tests. The only thing they could get out of my story is that I am suffering from anhedonia. They said I didn't show a lot of autism, Asperger related features etc. When I take online tests honestly I score very low at autism, Asperger etc.

 

May be important:

  • I'm lactose intolerant
  • 6 months ago I had a vitamin-d deficiency (25), after supplementation it was raised to 125.
  • A DNA-test of 23andyou showed my I am heterozygous at A1298C (C1298C). I'm taking supplements right now for 2 weeks (methylguard plus - thorne and vitals vitamins of active B-forms), but I never felt different.
  • More important 23andyou mutations: Attached File  MTHFR.png   41.65KB   2 downloads

I've never felt any improvement with any supplement, and out of desperation I've taken a lot (I could start my own pharmacy...). I may have forgotten one:

  • 5-HTP
  • 5-MTHF
  • Acetyl Carnitine
  • Ashwaganda
  • Avirayur HPA
  • B12 in hydro, methyl and adenosyl form
  • Biotine
  • Calcium
  • Choline
  • Creatine
  • DHEA
  • DLPA
  • GABA
  • Ginkgo biloba
  • Glycine
  • Indole-3-carbinol
  • L-carnitine
  • L-carnitine fumarate
  • L-glutamine
  • L-lysine
  • L-ornitine
  • L-phenylalaline
  • L-theanine
  • L-tyrosine
  • Lithium orotate
  • Maca
  • Magnesium (chelated and non-chelated)
  • Mangane (chelated and non-chelated)
  • Methyl Guard Plus
  • Molybdene
  • Mucuna pruriens
  • Multivitamin (very complete, with active forms and trace minerals)
  • N-Acetly-Cysteine (NAC)
  • Prebiotics
  • Probiotics
  • Rhodiola extract
  • Saffron
  • SAMe
  • Sarcosine
  • St. Johns Wort
  • Vitamin B's in active forms
  • Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol)
  • Vitamin E
  • Zinc (chelated and non-chelated)

I've taken some drugs:

  • My GP prescribed me citalopram. It made me sleepy, killed my appetite, my ears began to rang and I could feel the nerves in my hand (can't describe this any better).
  • My nephew has ADHD, so I tried methylphenidate. At 20mg I didn't feel anything. 40mg made me jittery and very irritated.

I've also tried some recreational drugs:

  • XTC: made me feel awake in the beginning, but sleepy after a while. No extra empathy.
  • MDMA: nothing really, even at high dose. It worked for a friend so it was no bad batch.
  • LSD and psilocybin both make me very sleepy but raise my mood. After a while both result in extreme train of thoughts.
  • Morning glory seeds: not a nice experience. I became very aware of my situation I'm in right now, it showed me I really lack emotions and made me feel bad about myself.
  • Cannabis: raises my mood and appetite, made me more social.

My symptoms are:

  • Very low sex drive. I rarely became randomly sexually excited, only really when seeing my girlfriend naked. I've never had problems with erections. But during vaginal penetration I ejaculated very quickly. During oral sex or handjob I could last long, strange enough those felt better too.
  • No motivation to do anything (live on my own, new relationship, look for a job (lost my job months ago because of my problems))
  • Very weak emotions, especially positive ones like love, joy (emotions can be strong with music or films/tv series or when I think of something that reminds me of my ex.. :/). I only feel those emotions in RL very rarely.
  • No affective empathy (although my cognitive empathy is great)
  • No emotional bond with people/I don't attach to people
  • Soft ringing in my ears
  • I seem to sweat a lot more than 'normal' people
  • It seems my body is tense a lot: jaw clenching, tense chest. This also when I'm home alone for example. The sweating above and these symptoms: it seems my body is a constant fight-or-flight response?
  • I never seem to get a dopamine rush or something like that. I do feel adrenaline, like in a roller coasters.
  • Aphantasia: no imagination, can't image visual, smells, touch etc.
  • Difficulties concentrating

I will edit this post when I come across new information.

 

I will really appreciate any help! You can suggest anything. I'm at a stage I will experiment with a lot, what do I have to lose?


Edited by Referer, 23 August 2017 - 06:48 PM.

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#2 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:13 PM

You've also tried "some" recreational drugs LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Bro I think we've found the culprit here LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

What's worse, it seems you wrote the same drug of abuse twice (XTC and MDMA)

 


Edited by PeaceAndProsperity, 23 August 2017 - 08:18 PM.

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#3 Referer

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:19 PM

Too bad you have to reply in such way.

My problems I mentioned here are as long as I can remember.

The experimentation with drugs have all been done in the lost 2 months so I could see what effect they have on my. That way I wish I could get some insights on what could be wrong.

So the drug usage isn't the cause. And I've used every type of drug once, except psilocylin twice.

 

I'm no real expert on drugs, but someone told me XTC contains MDMA plus something to make you wired?


Edited by Referer, 23 August 2017 - 08:27 PM.

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#4 ThreeKings12341

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:26 PM

i cant really help a lot other than i maybe think there  may be a connection with anhedonia and ear problems?  - i read about that few days ago but im sorry i dont know the name of this ear problem thing..



#5 ThreeKings12341

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:30 PM

and referer, forget about him,he  seems to have no empathy that guy, such people do not deserve to get healthy imo, but for you referer i hope ull get better, i have emotional anhedonia, numbing also. u can look in my thread, maybe theres something for you..


Edited by ThreeKings12341, 23 August 2017 - 08:30 PM.


#6 Heisok

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:48 PM

Referer, 3 kings is right in that you could benefit from reading their thread and other related mental health recovery threads you might find here.

 

My 2 cents is that you have tried it your way. I am sorry about the outcome. Your list is long, including the self obtained drugs. It is a bit of a cliche, but stop ALL personal supplements and drugs which you are taking. Do it the Doctor's way at least for a while which could be more than several months. Give them a list of all you have done, but they might not do anything with it.

 

I do recommend that you share whatever treatment options you are given here since you have already reached out. Many here (not myself) know medications well, and can offer warnings or encouragement about the Dr's plan. Not all Dr's are as good at others.


Edited by Heisok, 23 August 2017 - 08:49 PM.

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#7 ThreeKings12341

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:01 PM

also check this out: http://www.curezone....m.asp?i=2004032

 

its about  a person  detoxing his body from toxic crap , she has healed herself from dp and other mental ilnesses.. before i read this thread i started doing a detox (day 10) and on day 5 i started to stop sking pickin my finger tips skin. and my current doc u have me a few things to detox  and said i will get healthy.. energywise i feel better also

 

also i stopped nofap also to see if i will get better (day 32 now) porn i stopped over a year ago

 

this is the latest thing im doing, before was tianeptine etc..


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#8 Referer

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:07 PM

Thnx for the replies!

I've read a lot of threads on different sites, because of that I tried that many supplements (because they were mentioned there).

But I will read your thread tomorrow, I'm suffering from a headache right now.

I've tried nofap too (hardmode). Reached day 120 with no real results. The only thing it did for me was cutting my need for sleep from 8 hours to 6.
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#9 ThreeKings12341

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:10 PM

Thnx for the replies!

I've read a lot of threads on different sites, because of that I tried that many supplements (because they were mentioned there).

But I will read your thread tomorrow, I'm suffering from a headache right now.

I've tried nofap too (hardmode). Reached day 120 with no real results. The only thing it did for me was cutting my need for sleep from 8 hours to 6.

 

ok take care and rest!

 

and also read the thread about body detox. i find that really interesting and hopeful for me.. i dont care what other say about body detxoing (in my case heavy metals..) i will try it and look where i will get to :) and till now i noticed already a difference with skin picking.  and other small improvements


Edited by ThreeKings12341, 23 August 2017 - 09:38 PM.


#10 MichaelTheAnhedonic

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 10:42 PM

Read my posts. Maybe you can find something useful...

 

The only thing that touched my anhedonia is methylphenidate but you've tried it already.

 

Maybe NSI-189? It worked for my emotional numbness.

 

Did you checked thyroid?


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#11 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:55 AM

When will you druggies listen to experts, those shitty drugs damage the brain permanently.

But you never listen and you never learn, and now you want help to resolve your issues.

I wanna bet you've been taking similar drugs before you got anhedonia.

Even cannabis can cause permanent anhedonia and psychosis.

 

If you play with fire, you're going to get your fingers burnt. Even a child knows that.


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#12 MichaelTheAnhedonic

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 11:44 AM

When will you druggies listen to experts, those shitty drugs damage the brain permanently.

But you never listen and you never learn, and now you want help to resolve your issues.

I wanna bet you've been taking similar drugs before you got anhedonia.

Even cannabis can cause permanent anhedonia and psychosis.

 

If you play with fire, you're going to get your fingers burnt. Even a child knows that.

 

 

XDDD. Didn't taken any drug besides alcohol occasionally and still got it.

 

You know nothing, Jon Snow. 


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#13 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:42 PM

XDDD. Didn't taken any drug besides alcohol occasionally and still got it.

 

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

Why do you feel personally insulted if it is not relevant to you neither in content nor in reference? That shows that it may not entirely be true what you're saying. The OP clearly has taken drugs before he got this and now he's going to deal with the consequences of his actions.

 

Mommy says don't touch the hot stove and little Jimmy gets his hand permanently disfigured shortly after. "MOMMY, THE STOVE HURT ME!!" No, Jimmy, it was you who hurt yourself, now wipe those tears off your face and take it like a man.

 


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#14 Referer

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 02:08 PM

Referer, 3 kings is right in that you could benefit from reading their thread and other related mental health recovery threads you might find here.

 

My 2 cents is that you have tried it your way. I am sorry about the outcome. Your list is long, including the self obtained drugs. It is a bit of a cliche, but stop ALL personal supplements and drugs which you are taking. Do it the Doctor's way at least for a while which could be more than several months. Give them a list of all you have done, but they might not do anything with it.

 

I do recommend that you share whatever treatment options you are given here since you have already reached out. Many here (not myself) know medications well, and can offer warnings or encouragement about the Dr's plan. Not all Dr's are as good at others.

 

I only take methyl guard plus now and the active B-vitamins.

 

ok take care and rest!

 

and also read the thread about body detox. i find that really interesting and hopeful for me.. i dont care what other say about body detxoing (in my case heavy metals..) i will try it and look where i will get to :) and till now i noticed already a difference with skin picking.  and other small improvements

 

 

Thanks, all well now ;)

 

I will look into detoxing! My ex detoxed for a while and her skin became more healthy, so I believe there sure are some advantages.

 

Read my posts. Maybe you can find something useful...

 

The only thing that touched my anhedonia is methylphenidate but you've tried it already.

 

Maybe NSI-189? It worked for my emotional numbness.

 

Did you checked thyroid?

 

I came across NSI-189 a lot, I may give it a try!

 

I visited the endocrinologist and he physically checked my thyroid and said it was OK.

 

Why do you feel personally insulted if it is not relevant to you neither in content nor in reference? That shows that it may not entirely be true what you're saying. The OP clearly has taken drugs before he got this and now he's going to deal with the consequences of his actions.

 

Mommy says don't touch the hot stove and little Jimmy gets his hand permanently disfigured shortly after. "MOMMY, THE STOVE HURT ME!!" No, Jimmy, it was you who hurt yourself, now wipe those tears off your face and take it like a man.

 

 

If you don't believe I've never used drugs before my problems, that's your problem. If I were lying about this, I would put myself in a disadvantage since the advice would be entirely different wouldn't I?

 

So please stop spoiling this thread.



#15 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 02:26 PM

Let me help you.

The issue is almost certainly not hormonal though hormones may help.

The issue is not methylation, it never is. It's a stupid "theory" that is based upon a gross oversimplification and misunderstanding of biology. It's magical.

The issue is not a loss of vitamins or nutrients, though megadoses of vitamins and nutrients may in some cases help (unlikely).

The issue is almost certainly not just receptor downregulation because if it were that then you should expect to recover within days, weeks to months.

 

Let's suppose you have never taken ANY drugs before your "anhedonia". What then could it be?

It could be numerous psychiatric disorders which can develop at any point in life and be permanent, such as: schizophrenia and all the other schizos, personality disorders, etc.

It could be neurodegeneration, which is a part of several psychiatric disorders.

Hard to think of something else than neurodegeneration (brain damage) or a comorbid psychiatric symptom.

 

Let's suppose you DID take ANY drugs before your "anhedonia". What then could it be?

Gosh..

Brain damage in the form of loss of brain cells, synapses, dendrites, reunites, whatever (common and often partially permanent)

Receptor downregulation or the close related effects

Changes to brain metabolism

 

 

 


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#16 hydrus

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 04:47 PM

The issue is almost certainly not hormonal though hormones may help.

 

 

what makes you certain that it is not hormonal? Low hormones can cause anhedonia certainly. Low testosterone for example.

 

Very low sex drive

 

 


Edited by jamme, 24 August 2017 - 04:47 PM.

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#17 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 04:53 PM

 

almost certainly

 

 

what makes you certain

 

 

:wub:

 


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#18 Deaden

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 01:53 AM

Let me help you.

The issue is almost certainly not hormonal though hormones may help.

The issue is not methylation, it never is. It's a stupid "theory" that is based upon a gross oversimplification and misunderstanding of biology. It's magical.

The issue is not a loss of vitamins or nutrients, though megadoses of vitamins and nutrients may in some cases help (unlikely).

The issue is almost certainly not just receptor downregulation because if it were that then you should expect to recover within days, weeks to months.

 

Let's suppose you have never taken ANY drugs before your "anhedonia". What then could it be?

It could be numerous psychiatric disorders which can develop at any point in life and be permanent, such as: schizophrenia and all the other schizos, personality disorders, etc.

It could be neurodegeneration, which is a part of several psychiatric disorders.

Hard to think of something else than neurodegeneration (brain damage) or a comorbid psychiatric symptom.

 

Let's suppose you DID take ANY drugs before your "anhedonia". What then could it be?

Gosh..

Brain damage in the form of loss of brain cells, synapses, dendrites, reunites, whatever (common and often partially permanent)

Receptor downregulation or the close related effects

Changes to brain metabolism

So what do you recommend for anhedonia induced by chronic stress then? I'm just curious to what have to say but not really expecting anything that could help me. By the way anhedonia is not a permanent condition, just really hard to get out of; especially if you try any random medication from doctors that know nothing about this.


Edited by Deaden, 25 August 2017 - 02:08 AM.


#19 jaiho

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 05:41 AM

Anhedonia is treated in the same way extreme depression is.

I have a strong belief that Anhedonia, is truly the epitome of depressive illnesses.

It's the symptom with the strongest predictor of suicide.

 

So let's not mess around with it.

 

You want to start here http://psychotropica...al-ad-algorithm

 

SSRIs alone are rarely effective, but a good place to start is with Sertraline. Then you add Nortriptyline or Wellbutrin. These are the backbone of the treatment.

If the combination doesn't work (up to 300mg + 150mg NTP) Then you drop the SSRI, and add an MAOI like Parnate or Nardil.

 

The website i linked has all the information you need in treating Anhedonia. Try not to read the internet much on medications, you'll drive yourself mad and never want to touch them, suffering the condition far longer than necessary.

 

For biological Anhedonia, the medications are different shaped keys, and your brain has the keyhole, and you dont know which key will fit.


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#20 hydrus

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 08:36 AM

Anhedonia is treated in the same way extreme depression is.

I have a strong belief that Anhedonia, is truly the epitome of depressive illnesses.

It's the symptom with the strongest predictor of suicide.

 

So let's not mess around with it.

 

You want to start here http://psychotropica...al-ad-algorithm

 

SSRIs alone are rarely effective, but a good place to start is with Sertraline. Then you add Nortriptyline or Wellbutrin. These are the backbone of the treatment.

If the combination doesn't work (up to 300mg + 150mg NTP) Then you drop the SSRI, and add an MAOI like Parnate or Nardil.

 

The website i linked has all the information you need in treating Anhedonia. Try not to read the internet much on medications, you'll drive yourself mad and never want to touch them, suffering the condition far longer than necessary.

 

For biological Anhedonia, the medications are different shaped keys, and your brain has the keyhole, and you dont know which key will fit.

 

I think it is a good idea. Have you had any success with that approach getting rid off anhedonia permanently?



#21 Referer

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 01:52 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I would like to reply to all the replies but I really don't have the mental energy for it at the moment so it will be something for later. I do have a need to post this post because it's on my mind a lot.

The more I think about my situation, the more I think I suffer from simple type schizophrenia, I seem to be afflicted with almost all negative symptoms.. I've never had any of the positive symptoms.

I know a lot of the negative symptoms do overlap with things like depression, dysthymia etc. but the fact I can't remember being much different than I am now. I do remember I used to anticipate to things more when I was a kid. But I don't remember much of my youth either..

I've had another intake assessment last Friday in the process of being diagnosed. I'm going to participate in a couple of tests this month. In the first week of Oktober they hope to be able to diagnose me.

I've ordered the MAO-I moclobemide. I still have my citalopram medication. I'm definitely going to try what jaiho posted. I also am using NSI-189 for a couple of days, but so far I haven't felt any difference but I am especially putting some hope in the improved neurogenesis. I do seem to feel a little bit more calm though, but I don't know if that's because the NSI.

I know I shouldn't jump to conclusions too soon, especially without an official diagnosis but I've somehow 'feel' it's something that can't be treated well. I've been so indifferent to everything for as long as I can remember, can't attach to people, have weak emotions especially the positive ones, lack affective empathy etc. I really doubt something can change this and the idea I'm stuck this way while 95% of the people on Earth take the aspects I never experienced for granted. I've been this way for so long, this is my baseline and I don't know better.

Strange thing is I can feel jealousy VERY strong. Last night I thought about my ex moving on and kissing with another man and I had a very strong jealous response: I've felt a strong adrenaline rush troughout my heart, heavy stomach and I felt hopeless. I can't feel love but I still think about her a lot. I had these strong jealousy responses before I used NSI btw. Thing is: most emotions are absent. Why can I feel jealousy SO strong? And why does music give my an emotional response?

Things like the jealousy make my think I suffer from narcissist personality disorder (covert), because I can't seem to love HER but the memories we shared (narcisstic supply). She could make me feel good when we cuddled etc. and I enjoyed activities we did together. I even cried when she arranged something special for my birthday. Does this make sense? Am I overthinking things? I sure don't feel grandiose or manipulate people though. But I could think positively about my ex when everything went well, but in situations I felt she wasn't honest I could be a little bit passive agressive.

I've been reading so much about all the possible labels I get tired of it. Some labels do resemblence my symptoms but also symptoms which are not. As I said earlier a lot of things overlap. I sometimes do think I'm a sociopath, but things like depression can also cause sociopathic traits.

The only thing that pushes my trough this situation is the idea I somehow someday may be able to experience all those things I cannot now. My life now just has no purpose.. I don't want to be alone, but when I'm with people I'm not fully able to connect. I do make jokes and it raises my mood but the lack of empathy and emotional bond results in artificial relationships and give no satisfaction...

I'll stop rambling for now.
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#22 hydrus

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 02:06 PM

 

The more I think about my situation, the more I think I suffer from simple type schizophrenia, I seem to be afflicted with almost all negative symptoms.. I've never had any of the positive symptoms.

 

 

 

 

You must be really desperate if you want a simple schizophrenia diagnosis. Not sure if people understand what that means. Schizophrenia spectrum disorders are not cool.

 

http://www.rxpgonlin...rticle1583.html

 

- Doctors don't really know how to treat it.

- Prognosis is poor. Doctors will expect you to remain ill despite treatment

- It is chronic = Rest for your life. Progressive often, you might get worse.

- Medications primarly treat positive symptoms but not negative symptoms.

- Schizophrenia is still a very stigmatized illness. People will think you hear voices, can't reason = severely crazy. No one will take you serious anymore. Can affect ability to get a job, insurance, your social life etc.

 

You are just getting out of a relationship, you play soccer 3 times a week. You do not suffer from delusions or hear voices. 

 

You are not schizophrenic. You are anhedonic.


Edited by hydrus, 03 September 2017 - 02:18 PM.

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#23 Referer

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 02:13 PM

Oh you do get me wrong. I really don't want it to be simple schizophrenia, I've researched it and the outlook is very grim! I'm aware negative symptoms are not effectively treated right now. What you describe is schizophrenia, schizophrenia simplex only has the negative symptoms.

What I DO hope is it is something that is treatable of course! ;)

#24 MichaelTheAnhedonic

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 02:55 PM

I know that simple schizo reacts to aripiprazole but you must wait for the effects up to 1 year. This diagnosis is most probable in my case. I have frontal atrophy, cerebellum atrophy and general grey matter deficits. Thanks life, you're awesome.



#25 Referer

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:00 PM

Pfff that sucks for you.. I hope they can repair such brain damage in the future..

How did you manage to get a brain scan?

I've had a concussion at birth by vacuum extraction but I don't know if that's a possible factor.

#26 MichaelTheAnhedonic

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:33 PM

I just went to the neurologist, asked about MRI and got it. Couple months after, I've received SPECT scan which showed lower activity in right frontal lobe and left brain hemishphere.



#27 hydrus

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 03:51 PM

I know that simple schizo reacts to aripiprazole but you must wait for the effects up to 1 year. This diagnosis is most probable in my case. I have frontal atrophy, cerebellum atrophy and general grey matter deficits. Thanks life, you're awesome.

 

these can happen in most mental illnesses.. 


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#28 MichaelTheAnhedonic

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 04:05 PM

Maybe...

 

The weird thing is that I react positive to low dose venlafaxine and methylphenidate.



#29 ThreeKings12341

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 04:17 PM

I know that simple schizo reacts to aripiprazole but you must wait for the effects up to 1 year. This diagnosis is most probable in my case. I have frontal atrophy, cerebellum atrophy and general grey matter deficits. Thanks life, you're awesome.

 

did u read somehwere if the negative symptoms go away also?



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#30 MichaelTheAnhedonic

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 04:21 PM

 

I know that simple schizo reacts to aripiprazole but you must wait for the effects up to 1 year. This diagnosis is most probable in my case. I have frontal atrophy, cerebellum atrophy and general grey matter deficits. Thanks life, you're awesome.

 

did u read somehwere if the negative symptoms go away also?

 

 

There's no positive symptoms in this type.







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