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NR with NA, NAM, and/or Tryptophan - more NAD+ per dollar?

niacin nam nicotinamide

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#1 able

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 08:47 PM


We had a little discussion earlier about combining NR with Niacin.   Other discussions have thrown NAM + R out there as an alternative to NR.

 

I have learned a lot from those discussions and am interested in opinions of using all 4 of these NAD+ precursors in combination.

 

Personally, I have been using NR almost 2 years, and am quite happy with results, but always interested in more and cheaper.  Using 500mg a day currently.

 

I started adding Niacin a few months back.  The flush didn't bother me, in fact kind of like it unless I take too much and get itchy.  Am up to 1000mg twice  day now, with little to no flush anymore.  I do feel a lot more energized with the Niacin.

 

I added NAM to routine about  4 weeks ago, but failed to notice anything, and sometimes felt a little "weird" in the morning.

 

I noticed Turnbuckle and others mention NAM can make you drowsy.  

 

Also noticed Michael recommends and takes Tryptophan in the evenings, so ordered that. 

 

I added 500mg Tryptophan to the 2000mg NAM and take those together 1 hour before bed.

 

The results have been awesome for me.  Sleep is deep and refreshing, and feeling better every day.  Only 1 week with this routine, but so far so good.

 

I know Micheal has voiced concerns about Niacin possibly having an impact on elevated blood glucose levels, but being dedicated Keto, I have excellent control over that so not a concern for me.

 

Does anyone else use a similar combination?  Any concerns about using all together?  Heres my current routine:

 

Morning

500 mg NR

1000 mg Niacin

 

Afternoon

1000 mg Niacin

 

Evening

2000 mg Nicotinamide

500 mg  Tryptophan

 

 


Edited by able, 20 September 2017 - 08:49 PM.


#2 MikeDC

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 09:19 PM

Fealing good is hard to measure. Any aging reversal signs? Blood work?
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#3 able

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 09:36 PM

Yes, very true.  Kinda funny how someone's anecdotal, subjective report is near meaningless, unless it is our own :)

 

Over last 2 years I  have dropped my BP from 160/120 to 120/80, and fasting glucose from 110 to 75, but I attribute most (or perhaps all) of that to ketogenic diet.

 

I can say that adding the NAD+ boosters, the difference is like night and day, but I have no test results I can subscribe to NR or other NAD+ precursors.

 

  

 


Edited by able, 20 September 2017 - 09:46 PM.


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#4 Heisok

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 09:37 PM

Hi Able, Thanks for the information.

 

Due to your dedication to Ketosis, would you be kind enough to test the blood sugar effects of D-Ribose if you try it? It did not give me too low of blood sugar even though that is a warning with it. In multiple tests, what happened to me was a spike in blood sugar from the 90's up to the 130's in around 15 plus or minus minutes.  Years ago, I used to take 5 grams once or twice a day, but never tested blood sugar levels back then. Got excellent energy from it. I am very low carb at less than 25 grams, and also low protein at around 70 grams.



#5 able

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 09:41 PM

Hi Able, Thanks for the information.

 

Due to your dedication to Ketosis, would you be kind enough to test the blood sugar effects of D-Ribose if you try it? It did not give me too low of blood sugar even though that is a warning with it. In multiple tests, what happened to me was a spike in blood sugar from the 90's up to the 130's in around 15 plus or minus minutes.  Years ago, I used to take 5 grams once or twice a day, but never tested blood sugar levels back then. Got excellent energy from it. I am very low carb at less than 25 grams, and also low protein at around 70 grams.

 

Funny you should ask.  I've been reading Turnbuckles posts with great interest and have been curious to try the d-ribose.  Although reluctant to blow up my glucose levels, I will give it a try.  

 

I'm less than 25 grams carb also, and a bit less protein than you.  A lot of MCT oil.


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#6 Heisok

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 11:02 PM

able, I would not be concerned. I started very low carb from a base of what is likely Insulin Resistance due to fasting blood glucose that had been in the high 90's for many years, and was starting to measure in the low 100's occasionally. I might just be masking the underlying issue when I eat very low carb. Any carbohydrate test of my system would fail. Guess you will find out.

 

RWhigham has tested several Fission/Fusion protocols including with N+R + NR combinations, but with many other supplements. . Post #270 shows some of the information they have shared in the Manipulating Mitochondrial Dynamics thread .In one post they highly endorse Turnbuckle's protocol, but modify it to their own experience.  http://www.longecity...dynamics/page-9

 

 



#7 Michael

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 05:05 PM

I know Micheal has voiced concerns about Niacin possibly having an impact on elevated blood glucose levels, but being dedicated Keto, I have excellent control over that so not a concern for me.


I would not be so cavalier. Some of the possible mechanisms imply an enduring dysfunction of beta-cells. You may some day want to go off of keto. You wouldn't take a drug that caused muscular wasting on the basis that you have a desk job and don't need to lift any heavy weights.


Edited by Michael, 22 September 2017 - 05:06 PM.

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#8 able

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 07:57 PM

Thanks Micheal, I didn't realize there are indications Niacin may cause permanent damage - that is surprising.

 

I'll have to dig in to some more research.

 

Do you know if those were done with regular Niacin?   I know the time release version has been implicated in possible liver damage.



#9 Heisok

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:50 PM

Sorry for the quote so soon, but I want to be clear. My post might be construed as selectively choosing part of your comment to twist your meaning.

 

Are you saying that a Keto diet leads to muscle wasting as some sort of limitation no matter how the diet is being implemented?

 

Does this apply if one is not in a calorie deficit whatsoever? Doing some level of weight bearing, muscle using exercise most days? What is your definition of a level of Ketosis to be practicing a Keto diet. There seems to be a range of levels of Ketones?

 

 

 

I know Micheal has voiced concerns about Niacin possibly having an impact on elevated blood glucose levels, but being dedicated Keto, I have excellent control over that so not a concern for me.


I would not be so cavalier. Some of the possible mechanisms imply an enduring dysfunction of beta-cells. You may some day want to go off of keto. You wouldn't take a drug that caused muscular wasting on the basis that you have a desk job and don't need to lift any heavy weights.

 

 


Edited by Heisok, 22 September 2017 - 08:55 PM.


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#10 able

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:01 PM

 

Sorry for the quote so soon, but I want to be clear. My post might be construed as selectively choosing part of your comment to twist your meaning.

 

Are you saying that a Keto diet leads to muscle wasting as some sort of limitation no matter how the diet is being implemented?

 

Does this apply if one is not in a calorie deficit whatsoever? Doing some level of weight bearing, muscle using exercise most days? What is your definition of a level of Ketosis to be practicing a Keto diet. There seems to be a range of levels of Ketones?

 

 

 

I know Micheal has voiced concerns about Niacin possibly having an impact on elevated blood glucose levels, but being dedicated Keto, I have excellent control over that so not a concern for me.


I would not be so cavalier. Some of the possible mechanisms imply an enduring dysfunction of beta-cells. You may some day want to go off of keto. You wouldn't take a drug that caused muscular wasting on the basis that you have a desk job and don't need to lift any heavy weights.

 

 

 

No, you misunderstood Michaels point.  It wasn't about keto, but referred to earlier discussions where he voiced concerns over Niacin.  It may elevate blood glucose levels.

 

Pretty sure it was just an analogy about weight lifting, but unrelated to keto.



#11 Heisok

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:25 PM

Thanks Able, and I am am glad that you saved him from having to waste his time replying. He spends a lot of time posting excellent information, why waste it.



#12 MikeDC

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 03:52 PM

This is an excellent paper on inflammation, NAMPT, and NAD+ regulation.
High blood glucose induce inflammation that reduces NAD+. Lower NAD+ up regulate NAMPT and inflammation. Even though NAMPT is increased, NAD+ is still below control. There is a negative feed back loop between NAD+ and NAMPT. More NAD+ will down regulate NAMPT and thus reduce NAD+.
Supplementing NMN increases NAD+ and reduced NAMPT and greatly increased Sirt1. So the negative back loop prevents large increase in NAD+ from NAM and Niacin. But it doesn't apply to NR and NMN since they don't need NAMPT. This explains why NR and NMN are so miraculous against aging while NAM and Niacin don't.

https://www.spandido...7.5098/download
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#13 Michael

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:08 PM

This is an excellent paper on inflammation, NAMPT, and NAD+ regulation.
High blood glucose induce inflammation that reduces NAD+. Lower NAD+ up regulate NAMPT and inflammation. Even though NAMPT is increased, NAD+ is still below control. There is a negative feed back loop between NAD+ and NAMPT. More NAD+ will down regulate NAMPT and thus reduce NAD+.
Supplementing NMN increases NAD+ and reduced NAMPT and greatly increased Sirt1. So the negative back loop prevents large increase in NAD+ from NAM and Niacin. But it doesn't apply to NR and NMN since they don't need NAMPT. This explains why NR and NMN are so miraculous against aging while NAM and Niacin don't.

https://www.spandido...7.5098/download

 

MikeDC: aside from having garbled the findings of this paper, it's off-topic in this thread — whereas, as you know, the paper is already being discussed here. I'd accordingly like to delete this post; any objection?


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#14 MikeDC

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 08:33 PM

How can it be off topic when it almost conclusively shows that NAM and Niacin are not capable of reproducing the same anti aging effect as NR due to the negative feed back mechanism between NAD+ and NAMPT?
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