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We and the progressive left

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#1 A941

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:14 PM


just have a discussion with someone who thinks the progressive left is on our side.

Personaly Iam left from the center, but I dont want to be associated with the so called "progressive" left, which in my opinion is anti science, relativistic as long as it serves their goals, highly dogmatic and more interested in feelings than in facts.
I think they are as much our enemies as the religious Nutjobs.

 

What do you think?

Am I wrong?


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#2 to age or not to age

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 06:43 PM

I have in the past 13 years, made two feature length documentaries. Both played in movie theaters. One, "Orwell Rolls In His Grave" was an examination 

of the mainstream news media - Bernie Sanders screened it around Vermont and I appeared on stage with him for Q&A.  It came out in 2004.

Within minutes of my first interview with him in the spring of 2001, he was railing on about drug prices.  "I just took a bus load of women an hour North to Canada 

to get their breast Cancer medicine for one tenth the price.  Big pharma is almost a criminal enterprise." So this is one progressive who is a friend to research and against 

outrageous drug gouging.  The second film was started  in late 2006,  "To Age Or Not To Age" - where in I have followed interviewed and befriended the major scientists in the area, including Guarente (who knows my children), Sinclair, Kenyon, Kennedy Aubrey and others - It came out in 2010.  Scientists are overwhelmingly liberal.

In fact, I had a most interesting discussion with David Sinclair in which we discussed GB Shaw's idea that man must live to 300 years at least, and that human nature is tied to lifespan: if lifespan and heralthspan can be radically increased this might be the impetus for people to care about the environment, to take a longer view of things.

He agreed with this idea, as did Irina Conboy, the stem cell biologist in Berkeley.  So, in my observations I have to disagree with you.


Edited by to age or not to age, 12 December 2017 - 06:44 PM.

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#3 A941

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:27 AM

I wrote the so called "progressive" left cause somehow they fall in this category.
I ment people who deny scientific facts if they hurt their feelings, people who will tell you that you can be healthy at any size, that there are countless genders, that there is no noteworthy difference between men and women, people who are cultural relativists and who will embrace backwards savagry like Islam, while hating on the west for crimes of the past. People who will fight against free speech if they think it is about something they dont like anyone to hear.  You know, most of the movements who, at the moment, think that the most evil thing on the planet is the heterosexual white male. 


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#4 pamojja

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:18 PM

You know, most of the movements who, at the moment, think that the most evil thing on the planet is the heterosexual white male. 

 

An Austrian myself, don't know even one real political movement in our country which think a heterosexual white male is the most evil thing. Though it slowly comes to consensus that homosexuals shouldn't be discriminated or prosecuted because of their orientation.

 

As a hetero myself in my country I never earned anything than respect from all of my co-citizens. With people of different sexual orientation sadly this still isn't the case.

 

Therefore don't know any Austrian individuals of any orientations who hate heterosexuals. Though I do know many heterosexual males, who blame their unemployment, their homelessness or low social status, their addictions all on migration and homosexuals. So the hate in my experience isn't for heteros, but anything which isn't one's own culture or orientation.

 

 

Why YOU hate so much?
 


Edited by pamojja, 15 December 2017 - 02:05 PM.

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#5 A941

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:53 PM

I dont hate people who dont do anything to me, if you dont do anything evil to me you can consider me one of the most peacefull people around, but I really dislike those who tell me that they want me dead.
This includes Islam, Feminists who want 90% of Men dead (Sally Miller Gerhardt, Mary Daly,...), some Antifants, College Professors, Writers who want white people gone (dead).
 

I have to say that we here in Austria do not suffer from these stupid ideas as much as the USA or Germany, we at least got rid of the Green Party which cared more about prohibiting things, and accomodating Islam (VdB for example, who instead of showing solidarity with the opressed, showed solidarity with the opressors --> Kopftuchsager). But these stupid ideas still end up here in europe and what once was the normal left, something I considered myself to be part of, has moved in the direction of complete insanity.

For what I will write now i will get a ton of hate, I know, but I will write it anyway.
The left has given up on the values of enlightenment, it doesnt fight for the "littel people" it searches for fringe ideas to fight for non-victims and shape society  towards radical relativistic ends which dont work in reality and cause a lot of damage.

Lets just look at the whole Transgender thing. Yes there are people who have gender identity disorder, and we should support them to feel better(adress them with she instead of he etc.), and not kill themself (many of them do it, not because society hates them, but because they have a serious mental disorder). But what we should not do is celebrate a mental disorder and call them heroes for mutilating themself, or create a whole movement which is violating language by inventing new pronouns and which is producing "transtrenders" people who are pretending to be transgender, because it is cool and hip, and who get "triggerd" if you dont adress them with "xer" or "zir". I also do not understand the whole anger towards Trump who doesnt let transgender people serve in the military. I mean we are talking about people who are not mentaly stable, they are not suited for the military. Iam also baffled by the whole debate about the use of female bathrooms by male to female transgender-people. The loss outweighs the gain in this case. It is far better to have 50% of the population be safe than 0,6% feel comfortable. There were allready many cases with people pretending to be transgender to get into sex segregated places and take photos or worse.

 

 

 

So the problem now is that if you point out things like that you are worse than Hitler.
 


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#6 jack black

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 04:59 PM

I ment people who deny scientific facts if they hurt their feelings

 

you are perfectly describing the right wing nuts who are climate deniers and creationists, so i'm not sure why you are wasting your time with this. it's a common sense that any extreme is bad.


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#7 jack black

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 05:03 PM


So the problem now is that if you point out things like that you are worse than Hitler.
 

 

you really should educate yourself who Hitler was and what he did.

 

and yes, you do sound like an angry white man indeed. if you search this wonderful forum, you will find there are plenty of supplements that help with anger. i was an angry man myself and was able to help myself.


Edited by jack black, 16 December 2017 - 05:07 PM.

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#8 A941

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 03:47 PM

 

I ment people who deny scientific facts if they hurt their feelings

 

you are perfectly describing the right wing nuts who are climate deniers and creationists, so i'm not sure why you are wasting your time with this. it's a common sense that any extreme is bad.

 

 

There are not only nuts on the right, they are also on the left and I think both of them are dangerous.


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#9 A941

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 04:00 PM

 


So the problem now is that if you point out things like that you are worse than Hitler.
 

 

you really should educate yourself who Hitler was and what he did.

 

and yes, you do sound like an angry white man indeed. if you search this wonderful forum, you will find there are plenty of supplements that help with anger. i was an angry man myself and was able to help myself.

 

I know who Hitler was, the problem is that those who say such things dont. If you didnt get it I ment that there are people who will call you a Nazi, a Fascist and so on for stating facts which they dont like to hear.

And about the anger issue you assume I, as a white man have,: I wonder if you would tell this to BLM for starting riots, killing people, and calling for the death of police officers over the deaths of a couple of violent criminals, while not losing a single word over black on black crime. Same goes for those black Morons in  france who, some time ago, attacked police officers because they arrested a black Drug Dealer who soon afterward died because on of his drug packets inside his body broke open. Of course it must have been a racist murder.

 

I once have been as guilty of white guilt as many others today until i realised that this is absolute insanity. A biased and racist worldview which only helps boost the ego of those blacks who have accomplished nothing because of their own incompetence, and who now want to relay responsibility and cash in on it.

  


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#10 jack black

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:59 PM

 


starting riots, killing people, and calling for the death of police officers

[...]

black on black crime.

[...]

attacked police officers
 

 

I obviously don't agree with that either, but you have to understand where it's coming from. some of that is due to some races being marginalized, repressed, and impoverished for long time and acting out the only way they know, often braking laws.

 

I also agree that some of those minorities should try harder to educate themselves and be productive members of society.

 

but, I don't start threads on forum with open hate and anger.


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#11 sthira

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:02 PM

I wonder if you would tell this to BLM for starting riots, killing people, and calling for the death of police officers over the deaths of a couple of violent criminals, while not losing a single word over black on black crime.


Is this what's going on with Black Lives Matter over there in Austria? Y'all having riots and political killings and calls for police office deaths in Vienna? That's not what's happening here in San Francisco, LA, Chicago, NYC, nor anywhere very often here in the good ole USA. In fact, I'd say the movement -- and I've attended many protest marches here -- and 99.9% are peaceful, uplifting and healthy. But that's not a news story product seller, is it, it's not too exciting to report that most protest movements here are nonviolent. If you're reading that extreme, common violence associated with BLM is what's going on in the US, I'd suggest you recheck the idea that "fake news" and exaggerating exists on all sides.

I once have been as guilty of white guilt as many others today until i realised that this is absolute insanity. A biased and racist worldview which only helps boost the ego of those blacks who have accomplished nothing because of their own incompetence, and who now want to relay responsibility and cash in on it.


Really? We African Americans have "accomplished nothing" and we've contributed zilch to life on earth?." Wow: step back and reevaluate that twist in your internal thinking, my brother. You can educate yourself, you know, in objective news and historical trend gathering, study has never been easier than it is right now, man. We're living in the most peaceful and prosperous times in recorded history, and that's well documented around the world.
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#12 pamojja

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:13 PM

Is this what's going on with Black Lives Matter over there in Austria?

 

Actually, we're decades away from a black lives matter movement here in Austria. Even 20 years ago there weren't many colored people around. That has changed dramatically during that time period mainly through African asylum seekers. Sadly, discriminations are a daily experience for them here.

 

A hundred years ago the bogeyman for social decline has been Jewish intelligentsia, since they where killed or had to flee then, now they found it in Muslims, colored people and people of differing sexual orientation again. History is just repeating itself.

 

The only hope in all of that is, that such movements are very self-destructive, and in only 1-2 decades will have destroyed themselves again. Like the last time around.


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#13 sthira

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:37 PM

I think the thing fo all of us -- black, white, Asian, Hispanic, gentiles, Jews, my Islamic brothers and sisters, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists -- all of us -- we have to keep an eye on economic disparity.

The fact that wealth is concentrated into the few at the expense of the rest of humanity is the core problem. That the elite billionaires use their powers to drive phony wedges between us -- black versus white, Islam versus the west -- they use us as tools to keep us fighting each other instead of fighting for a more equal society. Divide and conquer is a master stroke by the rich against everyone else because it works. It worked throughout history, it works better than ever today.

Our real struggle is against wealth accumulation by the inherited few. It's time for that to change. Rise up, common people, your issues aren't that you're discriminated against because you're a middle class white male Christian.

To OP: entertain the possibility that you're being used on social media platforms by the elites, and the billionaire class's issues have nothing to do with issues important to your life. If you're fighting against your own best interests, then own up to it, and stop. It's not healthy for you or anyone else around you.

Edited by sthira, 17 December 2017 - 08:49 PM.

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#14 pamojja

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:33 PM

 Our real struggle is against wealth accumulation by the inherited few. It's time for that to change. Rise up, common people, your issues aren't that you're discriminated against because you're a middle class white male Christian.

 

But how?

 

We are inherently fragile. To accumulate identity, and by extension wealth, does temporarily help to create that cozy illusion of it not being so. So we all are really trapped and thereby keep that system going.
 


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#15 A941

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:23 PM

 

I wonder if you would tell this to BLM for starting riots, killing people, and calling for the death of police officers over the deaths of a couple of violent criminals, while not losing a single word over black on black crime.


Is this what's going on with Black Lives Matter over there in Austria? Y'all having riots and political killings and calls for police office deaths in Vienna? That's not what's happening here in San Francisco, LA, Chicago, NYC, nor anywhere very often here in the good ole USA. In fact, I'd say the movement -- and I've attended many protest marches here -- and 99.9% are peaceful, uplifting and healthy. But that's not a news story product seller, is it, it's not too exciting to report that most protest movements here are nonviolent. If you're reading that extreme, common violence associated with BLM is what's going on in the US, I'd suggest you recheck the idea that "fake news" and exaggerating exists on all sides.

I once have been as guilty of white guilt as many others today until i realised that this is absolute insanity. A biased and racist worldview which only helps boost the ego of those blacks who have accomplished nothing because of their own incompetence, and who now want to relay responsibility and cash in on it.


Really? We African Americans have "accomplished nothing" and we've contributed zilch to life on earth?." Wow: step back and reevaluate that twist in your internal thinking, my brother. You can educate yourself, you know, in objective news and historical trend gathering, study has never been easier than it is right now, man. We're living in the most peaceful and prosperous times in recorded history, and that's well documented around the world.

 

 

I didnt say african americans did not accomplish anything, I said that those who did not are into this.
Unfortunately you have that sort of thing over here too.
If something doesnt work out someone will call someone a racist and everything will become far more complicated for everyone involved, thats something you dont see with Asians.


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#16 A941

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:42 PM

 

Is this what's going on with Black Lives Matter over there in Austria?

 

Actually, we're decades away from a black lives matter movement here in Austria. Even 20 years ago there weren't many colored people around. That has changed dramatically during that time period mainly through African asylum seekers. Sadly, discriminations are a daily experience for them here.

 

A hundred years ago the bogeyman for social decline has been Jewish intelligentsia, since they where killed or had to flee then, now they found it in Muslims, colored people and people of differing sexual orientation again. History is just repeating itself.

 

The only hope in all of that is, that such movements are very self-destructive, and in only 1-2 decades will have destroyed themselves again. Like the last time around.

 

 

1) Discrimination is only a daily experience for them if you count controls by the police as such. And these controls are necessary since a ton of them is selling drugs. It is not like europe is getting the well educated people, but mainly the illiterate, backward and dangerous, who are unwilling to assimilate.

And by the way BLM arrived in the UK and in Germany. They are rebells without a cause. 

2)Do not mix these groups up to make some of them look like innocent victims. The Jews never did anything to deserve the hate which was early implanted into the heads of the european people by the christian church, nor did the gays.
Unlike Islam which is an abhorrent and evil death cult which tried, multiple times to take over europe, and which ruled over large parts of europe for 800, 500 and 350 years. A time during which they exploited and straight up murdered parts of the population. Unlike europe which had the enlightenment, they never changed they are still the old savages, and believers in Allah. They are killing people every day, because of their disgusting religion. There were 30K terrorist attacks done by muslims, since september 2001.


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#17 A941

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:59 PM

I think the thing fo all of us -- black, white, Asian, Hispanic, gentiles, Jews, my Islamic brothers and sisters, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists -- all of us -- we have to keep an eye on economic disparity.

The fact that wealth is concentrated into the few at the expense of the rest of humanity is the core problem. That the elite billionaires use their powers to drive phony wedges between us -- black versus white, Islam versus the west -- they use us as tools to keep us fighting each other instead of fighting for a more equal society. Divide and conquer is a master stroke by the rich against everyone else because it works. It worked throughout history, it works better than ever today.

Our real struggle is against wealth accumulation by the inherited few. It's time for that to change. Rise up, common people, your issues aren't that you're discriminated against because you're a middle class white male Christian.

To OP: entertain the possibility that you're being used on social media platforms by the elites, and the billionaire class's issues have nothing to do with issues important to your life. If you're fighting against your own best interests, then own up to it, and stop. It's not healthy for you or anyone else around you.

 

I see that I have been used by people to fight against my own interests, it is just not the people you think.
Very early I understood that Religion was a mayor force for evil and destruction in the world, but now I also see that there are many quasi-religious movements which are as dangerous as religion and which live from the Dogma and despise science and free speech.
Unfortunately they are on the left side of the political spectrum.
They have established a double-standard for certain topics which is not supported by fact but by a constantly repeated narrative, and an appeal to feelings.
Since this bullshit has been constantly told to us since the 60ies we have accepted it as fact, and opposing it is heresy and who ever does it will be cast out like a heretic.
Everything sounds like double-think from 1984 and the manipulation of language (newspeak) to make dangerous thougts impossible.
I dont believe for one second that all this would have been possible under the watch of the social democrats of old.

 

Here in Europe people have been firm believers, but now that shit hits the fan and we can see the lies being exposed, the tides have turned.
It looks like that we will move toward a horrible conflict, but can you blame the people for wanting to get rid of all the outrageous nonsense from the last 5 decades?


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#18 sthira

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:47 PM

A941: have you tried exercising more empathy for those struggling with issues of survival that may be invisible to you since you're in a white male majority? We're not all given level playing fields, right? You see that, right?

Or is this just the kind of oppressive, progressive lefty "feeling" based bullshit that you're reacting against?

I'm not clear where you're getting the idea that "the progressive left" is "anti-science." Can you clarify this assertion?

Lookee, I'm no drooling fan of religion, either. But to say billions (of mostly nice people often doing their best given the lives they were born into) are savage killers in a death cult is pretty extreme:

Islam [...] is an abhorrent and evil death cult [...] they are still the old savages, and believers in Allah. They are killing people every day, because of their disgusting religion...


This isn't true, and how is this language in any way helpful? Does saying this improve things in Austria?

I didnt say african americans did not accomplish anything, I said that those who did not are into this.
Unfortunately you have that sort of thing over here too.
If something doesnt work out someone will call someone a racist and everything will become far more complicated for everyone involved, thats something you dont see with Asians.


Can you clarify -- what are you saying about black people that you believe have accomplished nothing?

And you're not suggesting "Asians" are immune to the stupidity of racism, are you? You don't mean this, right?
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#19 Leon93

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 01:13 AM

I only have some problems with some islamic groups. 450 of 452 suicide attacks in 2015 were performed by muslims. Off course, almost all of them were done in muslim dominated countries. This is not only counting IS extremist groups. The other two were done by communists. Islam, communism and fascism are world´s most dangerous groups.
Total deaths by each group:
Islam: About 270 million.
Communism: About 100 million.
Fascism: A couple of 10 million.
Then there is the often-noted Huffington post on islam by leftist groups. They point out to a FBI study which displays muslims did only 6% of all terrorism between 1980-2005... being only 0,45% of the population during that period. That is 13,33 times as much as their own size. Before 2006 as well! If they would account all planned, prevented terrorism, including numbers after 2005, islam numbers would be even more extreme.

Radical islam is not to be trifled with. Radical islam does not only consist of terrorist groups. Political groups are also an issue. 

I think Jainism is the religion which comes closest to a true religion of peace.


Edited by Leon93, 18 December 2017 - 01:29 AM.

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#20 pamojja

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:27 AM

1) Discrimination is only a daily experience for them if you count controls by the police as such. And these controls are necessary since a ton of them is selling drugs. It is not like europe is getting the well educated people, but mainly the illiterate, backward and dangerous, who are unwilling to assimilate.

And by the way BLM arrived in the UK and in Germany. They are rebells without a cause.

 

You obviously haven't got acquaintances with colored actual people here, otherwise you wouldn't repeat such unreflected prejudices. Daily discrimination from ordinary Austrians in public places is a sad reality. As social-worker I do encounter drug-dealers daily, they are mostly young and white.

 

2)Do not mix these groups up to make some of them look like innocent victims. The Jews never did anything to deserve the hate which was early implanted into the heads of the european people by the christian church, nor did the gays.

Unlike Islam which is an abhorrent and evil death cult which tried, multiple times to take over europe, and which ruled over large parts of europe for 800, 500 and 350 years. A time during which they exploited and straight up murdered parts of the population. Unlike europe which had the enlightenment, they never changed they are still the old savages, and believers in Allah. They are killing people every day, because of their disgusting religion. There were 30K terrorist attacks done by muslims, since september 2001.

 

Again, we have a high percentage of Turkish Muslims in Austria already since decades. Despite, you still seem not to have made any acquaintances with them, otherwise you wouldn't wrongly accuse this generally peaceful and largest Muslim group in our country of Islamic terrorism.

 

In fact, the only encounter with terrorism in my country till now, was a young white man climbing on the roof of the house I worked, with the same paranoic perceptions as you, shooting down on any passing-by Turks!
 


Edited by pamojja, 18 December 2017 - 11:43 AM.

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#21 pamojja

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:31 AM

Total deaths by each group:
Islam: About 270 million.
Communism: About 100 million.
Fascism: A couple of 10 million.

 

Only if you don't count the millions extinguished by imperialism first.
 


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#22 sthira

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:27 PM

So I'm reading y'all Austrians are out in the streets today in protest. Sticking with the theme of this -- "We and the progressive left" -- how's that going? Did y'all march in it?
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#23 A941

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:03 PM

A941: have you tried exercising more empathy for those struggling with issues of survival that may be invisible to you since you're in a white male majority? We're not all given level playing fields, right? You see that, right?

Or is this just the kind of oppressive, progressive lefty "feeling" based bullshit that you're reacting against?

I'm not clear where you're getting the idea that "the progressive left" is "anti-science." Can you clarify this assertion?

Lookee, I'm no drooling fan of religion, either. But to say billions (of mostly nice people often doing their best given the lives they were born into) are savage killers in a death cult is pretty extreme:
 

Islam [...] is an abhorrent and evil death cult [...] they are still the old savages, and believers in Allah. They are killing people every day, because of their disgusting religion...


This isn't true, and how is this language in any way helpful? Does saying this improve things in Austria?

I didnt say african americans did not accomplish anything, I said that those who did not are into this.
Unfortunately you have that sort of thing over here too.
If something doesnt work out someone will call someone a racist and everything will become far more complicated for everyone involved, thats something you dont see with Asians.


Can you clarify -- what are you saying about black people that you believe have accomplished nothing?

And you're not suggesting "Asians" are immune to the stupidity of racism, are you? You don't mean this, right?

 

 

Yes we are not given a level playing field , and therefore iam happy to live in europe were we dont have affirmative action and similar unjust concepts.
 

And yes Iam reacting to the feeling based bullshit, as I allready mentioned.

Claryfication on left antiscience, I mean things like: 
-Gender even Sex is a construct, the average Men and Women dont have different interests, if there are not 50% women in STEM-Fields it is because of the evil patriarchy.
-Science is racist and sexist becuse the scientific method was developed by white men.

-You can be healthy at any size, even if you can baerly breath and walk

-Humans are mostly shaped by their enviroment and not significantly by their genetic makeup
-...

 

Sorry but I see how this religion is taking over the place, and if you even mildly criticise it you are called a racist and the police might come after you (just like in britain), because a large part of them is brown, and as the far left over here (the green party for example, thankfully they are out of the parlament now) tries to tell us, brown people are never evil and the culture of Islam is as good if not better than ours (which is bullshit).
Sometimes things have to be named correctly.

 

I ment that Asians, here nor in the US, rarely ever use the racism excuse if something goes wrong. Also interesting: They are not only doing better than Blacks, they are also doing better than whites.

 


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#24 A941

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:18 PM

 

1) Discrimination is only a daily experience for them if you count controls by the police as such. And these controls are necessary since a ton of them is selling drugs. It is not like europe is getting the well educated people, but mainly the illiterate, backward and dangerous, who are unwilling to assimilate.

And by the way BLM arrived in the UK and in Germany. They are rebells without a cause.

 

You obviously haven't got acquaintances with colored actual people here, otherwise you wouldn't repeat such unreflected prejudices. Daily discrimination from ordinary Austrians in public places is a sad reality. As social-worker I do encounter drug-dealers daily, they are mostly young and white.

 

2)Do not mix these groups up to make some of them look like innocent victims. The Jews never did anything to deserve the hate which was early implanted into the heads of the european people by the christian church, nor did the gays.

Unlike Islam which is an abhorrent and evil death cult which tried, multiple times to take over europe, and which ruled over large parts of europe for 800, 500 and 350 years. A time during which they exploited and straight up murdered parts of the population. Unlike europe which had the enlightenment, they never changed they are still the old savages, and believers in Allah. They are killing people every day, because of their disgusting religion. There were 30K terrorist attacks done by muslims, since september 2001.

 

Again, we have a high percentage of Turkish Muslims in Austria already since decades. Despite, you still seem not to have made any acquaintances with them, otherwise you wouldn't wrongly accuse this generally peaceful and largest Muslim group in our country of Islamic terrorism.

 

In fact, the only encounter with terrorism in my country till now, was a young white man climbing on the roof of the house I worked, with the same paranoic perceptions as you, shooting down on any passing-by Turks!
 

 

 

I have had contact with a couple of people from Nigeria and Ghana, the Nigerians lived in the same house where a friend of mine lived and i was over there very often.
Back then I too was a firm believer in the evil of the white man and I asked them if they experienced racism.

They said no.

I also visited Mosques and talked with Muslims a lot, back in 99' and this is the main reason why Iam so opposed to Islam and why I think it is the most serious danger for human civilization.
There is a mosque next to a house owned by my parents, and back in the late 90ies we have had a religious scolar over there. He was working at the mosque and one day we invited him over.
It only took him five minutes to tell us how the Jews kill children and drink their blood, and he was not even the worst antisemite there. There were tons of people who were telling me how they will rule the world one day and how allah will help them defeat the nonbelievers.

They have not changed they still want to dominate europe, but today we are stzupid enough to open the gates for them to let them in, and watch them kill us while we try to excuse such horrors with the colonial age and the crusades.

 


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#25 A941

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:25 PM

So I'm reading y'all Austrians are out in the streets today in protest. Sticking with the theme of this -- "We and the progressive left" -- how's that going? Did y'all march in it?

Not all Austrians, just a bunch of butthurt losers from the far-left. Aproximately 2000 People.
Austria elected a Rightwing Gouvernment, the Socialist party lost, as did the green party which is out of parliament now.
People were fed up with the left letting in muslim pseudo-refugees who are raping and killing people, and the green party was the worst offender.
They were caring more about gendermainstreaming, multiculturalism, fighting nonexistant Nazis and blocking anything they deemed dangerous for the enviroment. 


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#26 pamojja

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 06:51 PM

 

So I'm reading y'all Austrians are out in the streets today in protest. Sticking with the theme of this -- "We and the progressive left" -- how's that going? Did y'all march in it?

 

Not all Austrians, just a bunch of butthurt losers from the far-left. Aproximately 2000 People.

 

The last time we got the same kind of right-wing government (2000-2006) it ended in ruining scams. It's financial minister is under corruption trials still today (https://derstandard....mentiert-jedoch) These experiments with politicians too close to industry have a very short expiry date. And are the most power-full springboard for the left too win the next time around.

 

Too bad, that every politician these days, far or near left or right, in the middle or not really cognizable anymore, all have closer ties to industry than to voting citizens. The right is just a bid too unexperienced in Austria, and are bound to mess it up faster again.

 

So, if one is still fooled by this divide and rule scheme - left or right, all serving same masters - and doesn't like our new government, one doesn't has to demonstrate, but lean back enjoy watching destroy them-self again.
 


Edited by pamojja, 18 December 2017 - 07:04 PM.


#27 sthira

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:07 PM

I highly recommend studying chimpanzee and bonobo politics for helpful hints into understanding human behavior. We're different animals, sure, but wow are we similar in group dynamics and our power architectures. I mean, our politicians attempts to align with powerful interests echo the alpha male chimp tribe dynamic. I was totally, completely mystified about why any educated white woman would enthusiastically support Trump until I remembered, oh yeah: alignment of power for perceived protection, even if that protection is fictitious.
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#28 pamojja

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:35 PM

I was totally, completely mystified about why any educated white woman would enthusiastically support Trump until I remembered, oh yeah: alignment of power for perceived protection, even if that protection is fictitious.

 

Everything is possible. ;) If even just one period of conservative-right wing coalition (2002-2006) turned my 80 years old mother - lifelong staunchly voting conservative - turned green.
 



#29 Leon93

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:23 PM

@pamojja

Imperialism as much as I am aware ´only´ attributed to several tens of millions of deaths according to the internet.


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#30 pamojja

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 04:58 PM

@pamojja

Imperialism as much as I am aware ´only´ attributed to several tens of millions of deaths according to the internet.

 

To you have sources?

 

Including nasty things like African slave trade, extinguished native Americans, countless wars?

 

Just one recent war killed an estimated 151.000 to 600.000 Iraqis in just 3-4 years of conflict. And we're all know that this is was the perfect precondition for the breeding of IS.
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

 

The Iraq War[nb 1] was a protracted armed conflict that began in 2003 with the invasion of Iraq by a United States-led coalition that overthrew the government of Saddam Hussein. The conflict continued for much of the next decade as an insurgency emerged to oppose the occupying forces and the post-invasion Iraqi government.[52] An estimated 151,000 to 600,000 or more Iraqis were killed in the first 3–4 years of conflict.

 

...

 

The Bush administration based its rationale for the war principally on the assertion that Iraq, which had been viewed by the US as a rogue state since the Persian Gulf War, possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) and that the Iraqi government posed an immediate threat to the United States and its coalition allies.[55][56] Select U.S. officials accused Saddam of harbouring and supporting al-Qaeda,[57] while others cited the desire to end a repressive dictatorship and bring democracy to the people of Iraq.[58][59] After the invasion, no substantial evidence was found to verify the initial claims about WMDs, while claims of Iraqi officials collaborating with al-Qaeda were proven false. The rationale and misrepresentation of US prewar intelligence faced heavy criticism both domestically and internationally, with President Bush declining from his record-high approval ratings following 9/11 to become one of the most unpopular presidents in US history.[60]


Edited by pamojja, 19 December 2017 - 05:03 PM.

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