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We and the progressive left

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#31 A941

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 06:44 PM

 

 

So I'm reading y'all Austrians are out in the streets today in protest. Sticking with the theme of this -- "We and the progressive left" -- how's that going? Did y'all march in it?

 

Not all Austrians, just a bunch of butthurt losers from the far-left. Aproximately 2000 People.

 

The last time we got the same kind of right-wing government (2000-2006) it ended in ruining scams. It's financial minister is under corruption trials still today (https://derstandard....mentiert-jedoch) These experiments with politicians too close to industry have a very short expiry date. And are the most power-full springboard for the left too win the next time around.

 

Too bad, that every politician these days, far or near left or right, in the middle or not really cognizable anymore, all have closer ties to industry than to voting citizens. The right is just a bid too unexperienced in Austria, and are bound to mess it up faster again.

 

So, if one is still fooled by this divide and rule scheme - left or right, all serving same masters - and doesn't like our new government, one doesn't has to demonstrate, but lean back enjoy watching destroy them-self again.
 

 

Dont forget that the Sozis blew 45 Billion ATS durning the construction of the AKH.

Generaly, politicians cant be trusted with money but until now we have not found a better system... maybe one day we will have AIs who run our gouvernments, and maybe we can make them as honest and law abbiding as possible. ;-D



#32 A941

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 07:03 PM

 

@pamojja

Imperialism as much as I am aware ´only´ attributed to several tens of millions of deaths according to the internet.

 

To you have sources?

 

Including nasty things like African slave trade, extinguished native Americans, countless wars?

 

Just one recent war killed an estimated 151.000 to 600.000 Iraqis in just 3-4 years of conflict. And we're all know that this is was the perfect precondition for the breeding of IS.
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

 

The Iraq War[nb 1] was a protracted armed conflict that began in 2003 with the invasion of Iraq by a United States-led coalition that overthrew the government of Saddam Hussein. The conflict continued for much of the next decade as an insurgency emerged to oppose the occupying forces and the post-invasion Iraqi government.[52] An estimated 151,000 to 600,000 or more Iraqis were killed in the first 3–4 years of conflict.

 

...

 

The Bush administration based its rationale for the war principally on the assertion that Iraq, which had been viewed by the US as a rogue state since the Persian Gulf War, possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) and that the Iraqi government posed an immediate threat to the United States and its coalition allies.[55][56] Select U.S. officials accused Saddam of harbouring and supporting al-Qaeda,[57] while others cited the desire to end a repressive dictatorship and bring democracy to the people of Iraq.[58][59] After the invasion, no substantial evidence was found to verify the initial claims about WMDs, while claims of Iraqi officials collaborating with al-Qaeda were proven false. The rationale and misrepresentation of US prewar intelligence faced heavy criticism both domestically and internationally, with President Bush declining from his record-high approval ratings following 9/11 to become one of the most unpopular presidents in US history.[60]

 

Imperialism killed a lot of people but in general these numbers are lower than what christianity, islam, fascism and communism have done, especially "at home".
I also dont like that if we talk about the slavetrade we only mention the transatlantic slavetrade which was much smaller than the arab slavetrade and which was abolished in the 1860ies while the Arab slave trade goes on until today, it is just called differently, and inner african slavery is a thing too. Just no one cares, and i fear it is because the Perpetrators have the right skincolor (there was a shot documentary by an african filmmaker about that topic, ill try to find it).

The important part many people miss is not to attack people because a small part of their ancestors did something wrong, but to attack ideologies which enable such things, and those who support them. 
 

 

Also important: The majority of those who were killed in the Iraq war, were killed by insurgents or other unknown actors, not the US-Military.

I did not support the Iraq-war since it was forseeable what the outcomes would be, and that Moron Bush was pushing for it because of the loot.
The Iraqi people should have fought for their freedom themself, democracy barely works in the arab world, and it was not worth sending soldiers to die for people who only follow the most brutal Leader if he is just a fellow Muslim.


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#33 pamojja

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:23 PM

Imperialism killed a lot of people but in general these numbers are lower than what christianity, islam, fascism and communism have done, especially "at home"

 

Though I'm sure you can never agree...

 

 

https://www.sott.net...ction-and-theft

 

The number of people, who were murdered throughout history, directly or indirectly, by European empires, all over the world, can only be calculated in hundreds of millions, and one of my statistician friends believes that the total accumulative number actually exceeds 1 billion.

 



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#34 sthira

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:29 PM

I also dont like that if we talk about the slavetrade we only mention the transatlantic slavetrade which was much smaller than the arab slavetrade and which was abolished in the 1860ies while the Arab slave trade goes on until today, it is just called differently, and inner african slavery is a thing too. Just no one cares, and i fear it is because the Perpetrators have the right skincolor...


Thank you and kudos to you for awareness that the slavery never ended. Tens of millions of economically-abused good and bad people of all ages and creeds and nationalities are caught up in modern slavery. The common thread is they're poor and exploited. You may benefit from more research before concluding that brown and black people are the contemporary "perpetrators" of this multi-billion dollar corporate industry.

Who stitched the sweater on your back, or picked the strawberries you enjoy as part of your healthy plant-based diet? It's not the case that "no one cares" as you write. Indeed people and organizations -- mostly on "the left" -- do care quite passionately about ending contemporary slavery. It is the case that contemporary slavery is a topic that few people who directly benefit from it (all of us, essentially) are willing to acknowledge. How do we end modern slavery?

So, no irony here, congratulations that you see that contemporary slavery is worse than ever; it's not just a history subject for a history class in university; it's not just an "Arabs and Africans do it" problem, either.

This web forum is about anti aging, how to extend lifespan through advancing biological repair technologies. One of the criticisms of "indefinite lifespans" we hear is that people will "become bored" with extra healthy years. I beg to differ, no one should be bored with extra health, wisdom, and years: this planet has huge problems that urgently need attention. One way to spend extra healthy years is to do good things. As the bumper sticker goes: "Think Globally, Act Locally." One cause is to help fight against the contemporary slavery market that still exists right there where you live, if it's happening right under your face, now what?
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#35 A941

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 05:30 PM

 

I also dont like that if we talk about the slavetrade we only mention the transatlantic slavetrade which was much smaller than the arab slavetrade and which was abolished in the 1860ies while the Arab slave trade goes on until today, it is just called differently, and inner african slavery is a thing too. Just no one cares, and i fear it is because the Perpetrators have the right skincolor...


Thank you and kudos to you for awareness that the slavery never ended. Tens of millions of economically-abused good and bad people of all ages and creeds and nationalities are caught up in modern slavery. The common thread is they're poor and exploited. You may benefit from more research before concluding that brown and black people are the contemporary "perpetrators" of this multi-billion dollar corporate industry.

Who stitched the sweater on your back, or picked the strawberries you enjoy as part of your healthy plant-based diet? It's not the case that "no one cares" as you write. Indeed people and organizations -- mostly on "the left" -- do care quite passionately about ending contemporary slavery. It is the case that contemporary slavery is a topic that few people who directly benefit from it (all of us, essentially) are willing to acknowledge. How do we end modern slavery?

So, no irony here, congratulations that you see that contemporary slavery is worse than ever; it's not just a history subject for a history class in university; it's not just an "Arabs and Africans do it" problem, either.

This web forum is about anti aging, how to extend lifespan through advancing biological repair technologies. One of the criticisms of "indefinite lifespans" we hear is that people will "become bored" with extra healthy years. I beg to differ, no one should be bored with extra health, wisdom, and years: this planet has huge problems that urgently need attention. One way to spend extra healthy years is to do good things. As the bumper sticker goes: "Think Globally, Act Locally." One cause is to help fight against the contemporary slavery market that still exists right there where you live, if it's happening right under your face, now what?

 

I agree on the life extension part (otherwise I would not be here in the first place) and I thank you for appreciating my comment.

But we have to be very accurate with the words we use.
Unfortunately slavery exists in europe too, but it is mainly sex slavery, and if the perpetrators are caught they go to jail, no one is going to look the other way.
The people who make cheap shoes and similar things are NOT Slaves. They are in a difficult economic situation and they are being exploited, but if they are paid and if they can leave their job, if they are not treated like property and if they have rights, then they are not slaves.
Of course their situation should be changed, but I dont know if it will help to force the companies there to make their clothes in country X instead of  Y, because, no matter how low their wages are you will take them away and then it will be even worse. We have to find an intelligent solution.

(I hope i got you right and you were talking about that sort of thing)

Slavery in the Arab world, and Slavery in parts of Africa is in fact real Slavery. People are treated like property and they have no rights.
Less so in, for example, the rich Gulf-States, but it is still Slavery if murder is covered up ,and people are beaten if they work to slow, they are also not paid.
What I ment with them (Slaveholders) being overlooked because of their faith and skincolor: An african Journalist once talked about that topic (should be on YT, I will search for it) he said that the africans themself demand reparations from europe etc. but not from the arabs since they are muslims and the counties in question are muslim too. The western world has a similar bias and it doesnt talk about the african kingdoms which were supplying the transatlantic slavetrade. If you read about the topic you find a ton of relativistic, apologetic texts cause people are afraid to be called racists. Just like the UK-Police which looked the other way for years while pakistani muslims were running a pedophile sexring with1400 Victims.


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#36 A941

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

 

Imperialism killed a lot of people but in general these numbers are lower than what christianity, islam, fascism and communism have done, especially "at home"

 

Though I'm sure you can never agree...

 

 

https://www.sott.net...ction-and-theft

 

The number of people, who were murdered throughout history, directly or indirectly, by European empires, all over the world, can only be calculated in hundreds of millions, and one of my statistician friends believes that the total accumulative number actually exceeds 1 billion.

 

There is so much wrong with this article I dont even know where to start.
He exagerates and he really wants to hate the west.

Also important: Noam Chomsky is a great Linguist but otherwise he knows jackshit.


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#37 Leon93

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 09:03 PM

@pamojja
With all respect, you do know you are incredibly biased if you only decide to bring up african slave trade, native Americans and countless wars, when African tribes, islamic tribes, several Mesoamerican civilizations and asian civlizations all did the exact same things. All civilizations were barbaric and evil when compared to modern standards. Perhaps only Jain and Buddhist cultures to some degree were more peaceful. I have heard different things about Hindu and native Americans, so I don´t know about them.

And why bring up the Iraq war in particular? Yeah USA invaded Iraq because of warhead lies which wasn´t good. But remember that Saddam was a dictator who killed a lot of civilians himself. Can´t see western countries do the same to their people. Dont feel bad for Gaddafi as well as he was a dictator. 

And ironic how you are willing to defend radical muslims when I brought up evidence to why it is a violent religion (just google what I said and click the first link yourself). Are you aware numerous jihad battles were waged in old Spain and around the Mediterranean Sea at least 100 times more than the crusades, of which were only 15-40 battles?

Besides, western civilization also brought up many good things. It´s unbelievable, western and chinese genuises made most inventions. Then we let minorities into our countries so they could partly enjoy the luxuries our own people provided, and then they get mad and angry instead of happy just because of stuff which happened to their ancestors hundreds of years ago! That´s insane! If it hadn´t been for western and asian civilizations, those barbaric primates were still bashing each others heads upon with clubs and swords.

And how do you explain asians dilligently, silently, honestly and friendly do their job in western countries (and even earn more than whites on average!!), when other minorities are responsible for higher crime rates and lower IQ? Everyone has equal rights and equal opportunities. Asians and whites simply have higher IQ on average: https://iq-research....e-iq-by-country, which is taboo to talk about, even though it is.

IS perfectly follows their book the Quran. The book often calls for jihad, a holy war against non-believers through violence. All their sins will be swept away in an instant accordingly. Muslim cultures also deal with lots of incest, which might partly explain the lower average IQ. Islamic terrorist groups like IS, Hamas and Boko Haram aren´t made as a consequence of revenge, it´s a concept explained by their book.

Other religions preach peace, that´s why Gandhi demonstrated peacefully and why the Dalai Lama often friendly asks for the return of Tibet. Different fundamentalism (concept of their philosophy/book), different outcomes. 


Edited by Leon93, 20 December 2017 - 09:52 PM.

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#38 pamojja

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 11:50 AM

There is so much wrong with this article I dont even know where to start.
He exagerates and he really wants to hate the west.
Also important: Noam Chomsky is a great Linguist but otherwise he knows jackshit.

 
How to you know what he wants? I'm pretty sure it isn't hate. Also telling, that you have no serious counter-argument than an ad hominem attack.
 
 

@pamojja
With all respect, you do know you are incredibly biased if you only decide to bring up african slave trade, native Americans and countless wars, when African tribes, islamic tribes, several Mesoamerican civilizations and asian civlizations all did the exact same things. All civilizations were barbaric and evil when compared to modern standards. Perhaps only Jain and Buddhist cultures to some degree were more peaceful. I have heard different things about Hindu and native Americans, so I don´t know about them.

 
You misinterpreted why I brought up these examples. I did it to demonstrate how absurd it is to condemn a whole religion, sexual or religious orientation on account of a tiny percentage of each of them - as for example with Muslim terrorists. And hating all of them, including the vast majority of Muslims living in our country as peaceful as Austrians. In no way was it brought up for stirring self-hatred, but to view it a bit more differentiated.
 
Also been living for years in Buddhist Myanmar. The self-declared most staunch Buddhist was found in the Military-junta of that time. But again, the majority of people are not the same as their extreme examples. They suffer under them the same as Muslims under militant Islam.
 

And why bring up the Iraq war in particular? Yeah USA invaded Iraq because of warhead lies which wasn´t good. But remember that Saddam was a dictator who killed a lot of civilians himself. Can´t see western countries do the same to their people. Dont feel bad for Gaddafi as well as he was a dictator.

 
Because it was a more massive recent one. With huge implications, making the rise of the Islamic state possible in the first place. I don't feel bad for Gaddafi or Saddam, but I do feel sad for millions Iraqis and Libyans killed by decisions originally made in the west. Worse human loss than anything these 2 dictators could ever accomplish.
 
 



#39 pamojja

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 11:54 AM

And ironic how you are willing to defend radical muslims when I brought up evidence to why it is a violent religion (just google what I said and click the first link yourself). Are you aware numerous jihad battles were waged in old Spain and around the Mediterranean Sea at least 100 times more than the crusades, of which were only 15-40 battles?


With all my responses I've only defended 99.9% of peaceful Muslims in this world. In my own country as well as elsewhere, as I traveled a lot and found counties with Muslims those with most hospitality (where they are still traditionally living). I'm not interested in guild accusation on account of past atrocities done in the past. All I'm insisting on is that nothing is black and white only. The're evils and troublemakers on each side, ideology or religion. Which should never be used for the condemnation of all other peaceful members of that side, orientation or religion.
 


Asians and whites simply have higher IQ on average: https://iq-research....e-iq-by-country,, which is taboo to talk about, even though it is.


We can talk about generalized differences in different cultural groups. But differentiated. If Asians are getting higher paid jobs in the west than westerners themselves, it's because the elite of Asians are imported. I've been many years in South-Asian countries and have to admit, am at time aghast at the lack of education there. The high IQ countries in your list are those with the highest education rate, not of those countries with the highest analphabetic rates.

What should be taboo to talk about is limiting human rights on account of race, education, religious and sexual orientation, or disabilities.

 

IS perfectly follows their book the Quran.


Did you ever read the old testament? In case you did, you would be as glad as me, that today nobody follows the example of this schizophrenic tribal demon described there. The majority of Christians and Muslims are more reasonable as their ancient books suggests.



#40 Leon93

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 02:33 PM

I didn´t misinterpreted your message as you never motivated why you said it (to ridiculize condemning entire religions). In fact, I even asked why you brought up the Iraq War in particular. I also never said ´ALL´ muslims.
This must be like the hundred time I hear a person say this. Do you guys intentionally misinterpret what I say? Next comment I will probably be called a racist, which has nowadays lost all it´s meaning anyway.

I have a few good muslim friends, but they hardly read the Quran. One of them is a cannabis-addict, another admitted he has frequented prostitutes in the past, another one seems harmless as well (though not politically), and the other one is just a normal decent person working his jobs. They do eat meat and forbid/oppose to sedating animals before killing them horrifically, which is something western countries have taken measures for (I went vegan in 2016 so I now don´t have this problem anymore).

Buddhist oppose muslims as some of them seek to dominate the world. Buddhists have to defend themselves, which they have every right in the world to. There are also problems wide-spread caused in south-east Asia by muslim groups. No country has the obligation to forcefully help another. Altruism is something voluntary one should to from the goodness of his/her heart. And it´s especially hard to be altruistic towards a religion which is so racist and xenophobic in nature. Did you know Mohammed became a warlord in his later life? Mmhhh... perhaps that is why some muslim have become so radicalized...?

And ask yourself, how much does it take to make these buddhist militant? Every religion in the world only seem to have problems with muslims. I even have a friend in India who experiences the same. She is a very friendly girl who helps animals and wouldn´t hurt a fly.

´´The're evils and troublemakers on each side, ideology or religion.´´
Yes, and muslims have way worse statistics on their side. Look this page enlist a large study which interviewed muslims in many country on certain beliefs they have: http://www.pewresear...ound-the-world/

Just to prove I know more about this issue than you do, here is a video about a muslim woman admitting islam has a huge problem of increasing radicalization: https://www.youtube....h?v=pSPvnFDDQHk. And there even are progressive imams like Mohammed Tawhidi who admit islam has huge problems. Off course, he is being condemned by his own violent people. Then there is also Majid Nawez, a former muslim who has left his religion (which is punishable by death).

And 99,9%... ha! Wow, that´s a very convenient predictible chosen number! This just proves more to me you hardly know anything about this topic. Look, you can downvote my comments as dangerous and irresponsible, but I´m the only one who keeps bringing legit numbers and statistics to the table.

 

Alse notice the huge difference between African muslim majority countries like Sumalia and Christian ones. And don´t forget islam countries aren´t doing jack to help the environment in climate change, as well as taking in foreign ´refugee´-seeking muslims. 1, because they are xenophobic racists, even to their own religions and 2, they are selfish a-holes who might even use this strategy to dominate Western-Europe first.

´´But differentiated. If Asians are getting higher paid jobs in the west than westerners themselves, it's because the elite of Asians are imported. I've been many years in South-Asian countries and have to admit, am at time aghast at the lack of education there. The high IQ countries in your list are those with the highest education rate, not of those countries with the highest analphabetic rates.´´
Has nothing to do with the ´elite´ being imported. I can say the exact same thing for all immigration-seekers. You need at least a decent amount of money and other securities to be able to seek immigration in another country. Notice how you said ´south-asian´ as well, the link I shared stated south-asian countries to have far lower IQ than China, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong and South-Korea.

´´What should be taboo to talk about is limiting human rights on account of race, education, religious and sexual orientation, or disabilities.´´
I agree, which is something islam gladly disagrees with.

´´Did you ever read the old testament? In case you did, you would be as glad as me, that today nobody follows the example of this schizophrenic tribal demon described there. The majority of Christians and Muslims are more reasonable as their ancient books suggests.´´
Do you know why Christians and Jews do not act the way Jahweh does? Because Jahweh often explains a ´do as a I say, not as I do´ kind of mentality. The main focus of the Bible and the Old Testament are the Ten Commandments and stopping your own sins as a ticket to get a place in heaven.

The Quran has an entirely different focus: Allah commands to wage a jihad against infidels to cleanse yourself from all your sins and get a ticket into heaven with 72 virgins.

And then about the main messias from both books: Jesus was basically a pacifist hippie while Muhammed was a raging warlord, especially later in life. He has commanded many battles himself.

Oops, left out that tiny little notification didn´t ya?! 


Edited by Leon93, 21 December 2017 - 03:00 PM.

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#41 A941

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 05:47 PM

@pamojja
It is not an ad hominem if I say that Chomsky doenst know anything outside Linguistics, it is just fact.
You remember, he wa sthe guy who said the muslims attack the west because "we went there", meaning we started the agression.
Actually Islam demanded protection money from the US ages before any GI set foot on their soil.
The barbary States were attacking US-Ships in the 18th century, they took 1,25 Million Slaves from raids around european waters, they came to europe in the seventh century, and they took spain and held it for 800 years, That was long before the first crusade. They also took greece, serbia, bulgaria, and only left after they were kicked out in the 19th and early 20th century. Before that they ruled with unseen brutality. Neither the french nor the british were on such a trip, and they never built a tower out of the skulls of their fallen enemies to humilate the living.


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#42 OP2040

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 03:20 PM

This is the wrong way of thinking about it.  Political parties and social movements arise to solve the problems of their time.  The current dominant political parties and movements are in decline and transition.  The reason they are in decline is that they have largely solved the problems for which they were created.  A good example are the Social Democratic parties.  These parties dominated European politics for decades after WWII.  Now they are basically dying off because they solved the problems of economic insecurity for which they were created.  They are so irrelevant now because almost everyone is economically secure.  Even with automation, it is unlikely they will make a comeback as there is already a consensus and nothing for them to fight for.  

 

This is what will happen with the anti-aging movement.  It seems to me everything is coming together so that this is considered the problem of our era.  We have aging populations, demographic decline, burgeoning healthcare expenditure, rapid technological advances, and an increasing recognition that this is a problem that needs to be resolved.  These trends are literally begging for a corresponding political and social movement.  If it seems that politics is tired and boring these days, that's because it is.  There is nothing to inspire because most people haven't caught on to the next big thing..........yet.  


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