6 replies to this topic

[KKWinOK]

Hi,

I need some advice on taking some supplements for what seems like low dopamine. For years I’ve been suffering from adrenal fatigue but later discovered that CDP choline helped a lot with my symptoms. However, 6 weeks worth of use gave me unnatural and uncontrollable libido, which I do not want so I stopped taking it. I have revisited the idea of taking supplements that helps with dopamine and I’m feeling a lot better but I want to be very careful. I only want to take therapeutic doses to keep me balanced. I started taking l-tyrosine...about 100 mg at breakfast and another 100 around lunch. I also take very small amounts of choline bitartrate too which seems to help with mental clarity. I wanted to start as small as possible to see how I’d react. However, now I went from wanting to sleep for at least 8 hours a night to insomnia and poor sleep. I think I’m read that I need to balance out dopamine with serotonin by taking something like 5-htp or tryptophan before going to bed. It makes sense anyway. Seems like I’ve read that GABA may be useful as well as taurine and l-theanine. But I don’t know how to make it all balance out to where I can finally feel “normal” again. Below are some of the supplements I am taking. And for the record, I have changed my diet to a modified paleo diet. Do you have any recommendations (ie a stack) to alleviate fatigue that seems to be relieved by slightly increasing dopamine?

Choline L-Bitartrate, < 250 mg/day spread out in 2 to 3 doses
B Complex, 3/day
Vitamin C, 3/day
Vitamins D&K, 3/day
RLC Labs A-Drenal, 6/day
D-Ribose, 5 grams, 3/day
Probiotic, 1/day
Licorice Root, 2/day
Now Amino Complete

[Nate-2004]

The B complex may be the only thing in this stack that would help, better yet, replace that with just B6, as it's what helps with tyrosine hydroxylase's job of converting tyrosine to L-Dopa. Add 5mg lithium orotate (upregulates the tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme) perhaps once a day and/or perhaps every other day with food. Add EGCG as a MAO-B inhibitor on an empty stomach in the morning. That's about all you can really do in terms of stacks I think. Let your body do the rest. In addition to the stack you will need to boost BDNF so that new dopamine receptors grow. To do that, get good exercise 4 days a week AND sit in an 80 degrees celsius dry sauna for 20 mins 4 days a week. These both boost BDNF.

 

Avoid all that ribose, don't take so much C and DEFINITELY do not take any antioxidants within 4 hours of exercise, you won't get the benefits.  I honestly don't know what the rest is for. Keep up the vitamin D though, with food, and cut down on the K because you can easily get way too much K. In fact most of my K comes from leafy greens (there is a TON in just one serving of romaine lettuce!) and that is quite plenty. It can harm your liver otherwise.

 

Also avoid alcohol (especially with the lithium). Alcohol will hurt your efforts towards maintaining higher dopamine levels.

Edited by Nate-2004, 22 January 2018 - 08:13 PM.

[KKWinOK]

Hi Nate-2004,

Thanks for the tips. All the other supplements I take are primarily for adrenal fatigue protocol. It’s common to see high doses of vitamin c as well as b-complex. They have helped quite a bit but it’s a roller coaster at times. But even with these, I don’t feel anywhere near 100% and something is definitely missing. I’ve read some doctor’s websites (like Dr Lam, Dr Jockers, etc) who suggest that neurotransmitters need some help. I wouldn’t be surprised that adrenals aren’t really burned out but it’s more of a brain issue. Around 2013, it’s like someone turned a light switch off on me. My testosterone was low, I went through terrible fatigue, slightly hypothyroid, low libido, etc. Anyway, I experienced much relief when I took CDP Choline last year but it seemed to change me. After that, I wasn’t able to take fish oil anymore because it would sky rocket my libido. I have no idea why. Further questions below:

1. What will EGCG do and what will MAO-B inhibitor do?
2. What should I take to be able to sleep? Even two ~100 mg doses of l tyrosine at breakfast and lunch make sleep difficult where I used to have no problem at all.
3. Exercise has been difficult with such debilitating fatigue. However with the tyrosine and choline, I feel like it now. What supplements can help with sleep?
4. Will GABA, taurine, and l-theanine help to balance things out? Here’s my source for some of that information: https://drjockers.co...drenal-fatigue/

Thanks!

Edited by KKWinOK, 22 January 2018 - 11:24 PM.

[Nate-2004]

For all things sleep related including supplements (at the end) see this guide I'm currently developing (note: I'm in the middle of citing all the points), but it sounds like you may need to go for a sleep study. Find a specialist. I went to the University of Pennsylvania Sleep Center and they're pretty helpful though I think some people are more advanced with their equipment. You may have sleep apnea. If you DO have sleep apnea, definitely wear the CPAP. That could be the ON switch you're looking for. It was for me. After a month or so of wearing it all night while I slept, I started gaining back that boundless energy that propelled me into unprecedented growth. It sucks to have to wear every night but I got used to it and worked around the issue of girls sleeping over, etc.

 

MAO-B breaks down dopamine, inhibiting it prolongs the action of dopamine in the brain.

 

Don't bother with GABA, it's too big for the blood brain barrier. L-theanine and glycine can help but mostly, just follow that guide and definitely get a sleep study, that could be the KEY to what you want.

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 23 January 2018 - 02:19 PM.

[blind12]

Avoid all that ribose

Why?
 

DEFINITELY do not take any antioxidants within 4 hours of exercise, you won't get the benefits.

Depends on your baseline afaik; just like training volume and intensity, ROS and its surges should stay in optimal limits.

cut down on the K because you can easily get way too much K. In fact most of my K comes from leafy greens (there is a TON in just one serving of romaine lettuce!) and that is quite plenty.

Who in earth gets too much vit K?! Other than injected newborns.
Plant vit K is the weak/brief-halflife phytonadione.
Japanese get a lot of K2 menaquinone-7 from nattō.

Edited by blind12, 15 March 2018 - 02:27 AM.

[Nate-2004]

 

Avoid all that ribose

Why?
 

DEFINITELY do not take any antioxidants within 4 hours of exercise, you won't get the benefits.

Depends on your baseline afaik; just like training volume and intensity, ROS and its surges should stay in optimal limits.

cut down on the K because you can easily get way too much K. In fact most of my K comes from leafy greens (there is a TON in just one serving of romaine lettuce!) and that is quite plenty.

Who in earth gets too much vit K?! Other than injected newborns.
Plant vit K is the weak/brief-halflife phytonadione.
Japanese get a lot of K2 menaquinone-7 from nattō.

 

 

Question 1: Because it can accelerate glycation:

 

Discussion:

http://www.longecity...ation-an-issue/

 

Other sources:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22274132

 

Comment 2: ... what? No. References.

 

Comment 3. You can get too much vitamin k from supplementation, but at the time that I wrote that, I was going by what a doctor had told me and that it caused liver toxicity. Now I'm not so sure about that. After trying for a good hour to find their sources via Google I've been unable to verify anything they said about it. 

Edited by Nate-2004, 15 March 2018 - 02:55 AM.

[blind12]

>> Avoid all that ribose

> Why?

Question 1: Because it can accelerate glycation:
Discussion: longecity.org/forum/topic/97331-is-glycation-from-exogenous-ribose-supplementation-an-issue
Other sources: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22274132

If you read the 1st link (Longecity: 97331) you will notice that it refutes the concern.
The 2nd (PMID: 22274132) is referenced in the 1st
 

Comment 2: ... what? No. References.

What was this about?

If about this:

>> DEFINITELY do not take any antioxidants within 4 hours of exercise, you won't get the benefits.

Depends on your baseline afaik; just like training volume and intensity, ROS and its surges should stay in optimal limits.

Then just basic logic first and foremost. Any beneficial stressor starts to kill and destroy if outside individual beneficial range.
Refs would be too much digging atm though, it's a complex subject and I don't recall good reviews, only garbage.
 

>> cut down on the K because you can easily get way too much K. In fact most of my K comes from leafy greens (there is a TON in just one serving of romaine lettuce!) and that is quite plenty.

> Who in earth gets too much vit K?! Other than injected newborns.
> Plant vit K is the weak/brief-halflife phytonadione.
> Japanese get a lot of K2 menaquinone-7 from nattō.

Comment 3. You can get too much vitamin k from supplementation, but at the time that I wrote that, I was going by what a doctor had told me and that it caused liver toxicity. Now I'm not so sure about that. After trying for a good hour to find their sources via Google I've been unable to verify anything they said about it.

You can supplement too much of anything, but vit K would be an EXTREMELY unusual concern (outside women's magazines' silly health articles... those tend to blindly lump fat-solubles together).

Edited by blind12, 02 April 2018 - 11:42 PM.