20 replies to this topic

[Anomie]

So I posted here about BPII depression and low testosterone not too long ago. It was advised I try Lamictal or Lithium and I still can't afford TRT anyway so it doesn't really factor in. I went with Lamictal and ramped up to 200mg and it had been helping mostly. However after each dose increase it would help for about 2 - 3 weeks and then my symptoms would start to slide back towards depressive episodes and more rapid cycling. For the past 2 months it's been about 50% effective so worth taking but the depression can still be pretty bad.

 

I asked my doctor for seroquel and I took my first dose last night, 50mg. I was knocked out and woke up extremely tired, slept another hour, forced myself to get up. I felt like a zombie and it took all I had to bounce around the walls and do my morning routine.

 

I tried to read the news online or do my usual surfing about and basically just gave up. I couldn't read more than a couple lines before I just didn't care and closed out the window. A bit later I tried to start working. I work online and at my discretion so luckily I have a choice in the matter. I barely made it 3 minutes in and gave up. I can't read, I can't think, I can't do anything. So I went to lay down and watch a tv show. I couldn't stand even trying to pay attention to that or even care, I shut it off. I then spent the next 3 hours just laying in bed staring at the wall. During that time I decided to make a post here as well as will be sending my doctor a note and see what she wants to do, but I thought I'd ask you guys first.

 

So any advice here? This obviously doesn't feel like the right medicine for me or is there some horrible adjustment period?

 

If I shouldn't be taking seroquel, what would you guys recommend? I feel like the opposite of seroquel is what I need... It just sucked every ounce of life out of me.

 

I've taken SSRI's in the past and they've sort of helped, maybe... they didn't address the cycling so that probably wasn't very optimal to take them alone for bipolar. They may have helped in the beginning but it's hard to say.  I'm thinking maybe another mood stabilizer in conjunction with Lamictal, Lithium or Depakote maybe? I'm afraid of anything in the same class as Seroquel now. My doctor also suggested Abilify but I imagine that would be very similar to my experience on Seroquel, right?

 

Thanks for any help...

[Anomie]

I talked to my doctor and she said to keep taking it as there can be an adjustment period. I took it again last night and today feel mostly fine except slight grogginess. That was the craziest thing I've ever experienced from a new med. It was like on a tv show where the people in the nuthouse are anesthetized and just stare out the window with their mouth hanging open. It sucked every ounce of life out of me and I could barely read or think.

 

I don't really know much about how the mind / receptors work exactly. I guess the blocking "agonist"? forces your brain to work a bit differently and then has to adapt and you feel better?

[Mind_Paralysis]

Memantine could help with the rapid cycling - which is odd, since dopamine-agonists/nmda-antagonists generally tend to be PRO-psychotic, an other pro-psychotic substances, such as amphetamine and MDMA, usually make rapid cycling infinitely worse - often triggering the dreaded suicide which plagues you whom are stricken with this beastly disease.

 

I recommend Lithium as well, since it's still the gold standard when it comes to Bipolar treatment.

 

And on that note -I recommend you look into an experimental Lithium compound called LITHIUM *SALICYLATE* - because it's implied to be a better, more bioavailable and less side-effects prone lithium-salt, and the Salicylate-portion in itself is beneficial to your depression - chronic depression in BP-states seems to be more closely connected to brain inflammation than other forms of depression - Salicylic Acid and other anti-inflammatories actually help with this!

 

I'm too tired to actually link you the studies, but have a look at these things and consider them - I know it sounds crazy to think that a common weak pain-med for hangovers might help with lethal depression, but it's actually true - you have to use a fairly hefty dose though, and combined with Omega-3, but there is some evidence there.

[Nate-2004]

In addition to a daily dose of 5mg lithium orotate and vitamin B6 (and perhaps b12), I realize you're diagnosed as bi-polar which isn't exactly depression, but it wouldn't hurt to follow the advice in this guide I am developing. Look in particular at the exercise, nutrition and sleep sections. If you're not doing any of those things, making some lifestyle changes may help pull you out of this as it did for me.

 

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

Edited by Nate-2004, 09 February 2018 - 02:55 PM.

[Anomie]

Memantine could help with the rapid cycling - which is odd, since dopamine-agonists/nmda-antagonists generally tend to be PRO-psychotic, an other pro-psychotic substances, such as amphetamine and MDMA, usually make rapid cycling infinitely worse - often triggering the dreaded suicide which plagues you whom are stricken with this beastly disease.

 

I recommend Lithium as well, since it's still the gold standard when it comes to Bipolar treatment.

 

And on that note -I recommend you look into an experimental Lithium compound called LITHIUM *SALICYLATE* - because it's implied to be a better, more bioavailable and less side-effects prone lithium-salt, and the Salicylate-portion in itself is beneficial to your depression - chronic depression in BP-states seems to be more closely connected to brain inflammation than other forms of depression - Salicylic Acid and other anti-inflammatories actually help with this!

 

I'm too tired to actually link you the studies, but have a look at these things and consider them - I know it sounds crazy to think that a common weak pain-med for hangovers might help with lethal depression, but it's actually true - you have to use a fairly hefty dose though, and combined with Omega-3, but there is some evidence there.

 

Yeah this all started after a couple years of using Adderall... bad mistake. I hadn't had terrible bipolar symptoms since I had quit drinking and doing drugs, and since my younger years. Then I got on adderall for ADD thinking I could handle it... bad bad idea. After I got off it I fell into the worse depression of my life and have been having trouble ever since then. That was about a year and a half ago.

 

The lithium salicylate looks promising. My doc hasn't wanted to go with lithium as there is the risk of toxicity but this one seems to be much better for that.

 

I've been trying to stack up the anti inflammatories, fish oil, ala, alcar, curcumin. I wasn't able to notice a difference with using them but I figure they certainly can't hurt and if there is a possibility of it helping while being healthful anyway, is worth a shot.

[Anomie]

In addition to a daily dose of 5mg lithium orotate and vitamin B6 (and perhaps b12), I realize you're diagnosed as bi-polar which isn't exactly depression, but it wouldn't hurt to follow the advice in this guide I am developing. Look in particular at the exercise, nutrition and sleep sections. If you're not doing any of those things, making some lifestyle changes may help pull you out of this as it did for me.

 

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

Thanks for the guide, I downloaded it a couple days ago. It's a nice compendium of information and I'm trying to work through it. Bad problems really are something you have to work hard to overcome so with any luck I can implement as much of what you cover as possible.

 

I'm great on sleep but poor on nutrition and exercise. I've gotten a lot better at nutrition in staying away from junk food and eating mostly healthier foods. But really need to spend more money on fresh vegetables and whole foods.

 

Exercise I tend to do for a while then fall off the wagon. It really does help a lot but is also a lot of work to stay on.

 

It all really is a struggle but at least there is a way out for people like us, just have to do it.

[Nate-2004]

I was also terrible with nutrition because I *hate* vegetables*, or hate to eat them. When I learned how to make a proper smoothie (several variations on that smoothie), my produce consumption went up 1000%.  I replace 1 meal a day with a smoothie like this.

 

I have one recipe in the guide but following that video you can make different tastes by removing or adding ingredients.

 

My favorite keto compatible variation on that smoothie takes polyunsaturated fat ratios of omega 6 and 3 into account.

 

4 kale leaves AND/OR, 100g broccoli, AND/OR 4 oz of spinach (if kale or broccoli, blend first with 2 cups water and let sit for several minutes prior to adding more ingredients for max sulforaphane)

1 Tomato

2 to 4 oz blueberries (50 to 100g)

3 TBSP Ground Flaxseed

100 to 200g of both walnuts and almonds specifically (highest in gamma and alpha tocopherol and mono fats)

1 Avocado

1 squeezed lemon

1 banana (if you're on Keto leave the banana out)

2 Cups Water

 

Also good idea to take fish oil and a tbsp of olive oil with this in addition to any supplements that are fat soluble like vitamin D 4000 IU, garlic extract and curcumin among others. Here's what I take in terms of supplements with my smoothie most days:

 

Vitamin D (4000 to 8000 IU)

Garlic Extract

NAC

Gamma E

Sometimes Vitamin A 5000 IU

BroccoMax 3 to 6 caps

Krill Oil by Viva Naturals

Fish Oil by Viva Naturals

Sometimes vitamin C 1000mg

Curcumin 500mg with Bioperine

 

I also make an apigenin smoothie sometimes for CD38 inhibition:

 

100g Parsley

4 stalks celery

2 cups water

3 TBSP ground flax

100g almonds

Edited by Nate-2004, 09 February 2018 - 07:56 PM.

[Eryximachus]

It is profoundly unwise to give up on a psychiatric drug after a single dose.  Seroquel makes everyone tired the first time they take it.  The effect wears off in time, usually no more than a month.  Lithium is the gold standard for bipolar cycling and mania, but has little to no effect on major depression outside of very broad studies that correlate higher blood levels with reduced suicide risk.  Seroquel is THE ONLY known drug to prevent cycling and address mania AND depression.  

 

Lithium Oroate = snake oil. 

Lithium Salicylate = Impossible to get, and I'm not even sure it's FDA approved. No studies I have read indicate it is effective for depression, nor was this a design goal.

 

Seroquel is a very effective drug, but like all drugs, requires time to work and for you to adapt to the side effects.  It makes much more sense to try this drug for 3 months, then if you still have problems, switch to lithium and an SSRI.  

 

Most people notice significant antidepressant effects in 2-4 weeks, which is superior to SSRIs.  

 

Get stable on Seroquel, then consider other dietary/lifestyle changes.  Please, for your own health and safety, ignore posters who throw together crazy dietary laundry lists.  Your problem is not a lack of bananas.

[Anomie]

It is profoundly unwise to give up on a psychiatric drug after a single dose.  Seroquel makes everyone tired the first time they take it.  The effect wears off in time, usually no more than a month.  Lithium is the gold standard for bipolar cycling and mania, but has little to no effect on major depression outside of very broad studies that correlate higher blood levels with reduced suicide risk.  Seroquel is THE ONLY known drug to prevent cycling and address mania AND depression.  

 

Lithium Oroate = snake oil. 

Lithium Salicylate = Impossible to get, and I'm not even sure it's FDA approved. No studies I have read indicate it is effective for depression, nor was this a design goal.

 

Seroquel is a very effective drug, but like all drugs, requires time to work and for you to adapt to the side effects.  It makes much more sense to try this drug for 3 months, then if you still have problems, switch to lithium and an SSRI.  

 

Most people notice significant antidepressant effects in 2-4 weeks, which is superior to SSRIs.  

 

Get stable on Seroquel, then consider other dietary/lifestyle changes.  Please, for your own health and safety, ignore posters who throw together crazy dietary laundry lists.  Your problem is not a lack of bananas.

 

I didn't give up on Seroquel yet, you may have missed my second post about it. I had just never experienced the side effects that I did on that first day. It was so bad I thought maybe I was having an allergic reaction or something was seriously off. Second day, almost nothing other than slight grogginess in the morning. It was bizarre to have such intense effects and then to just be fine.

 

One thing I would like to ask you though if you don't mind, sorry if this is long. Whenever I take medications one of two things happen, either it does nothing or it does something and then tapers off to nothing.

 

So like when I started the Lamictal. The dose increase from 100 to 150 had me feeling normal for the longest period I had experienced in about a year and a half. I went 3 weeks without being up or down or anything, just pretty normal. But as usual after that I started dipping and going off the deep end again. It progressively gets worse and worse until I feel like I'm back where I started and the medication is doing little or nothing.

 

So now I've been on the Seroquel since Feb 6th. After 3 days I went from 50mg to 100mg and I've been there since. From the second day on I increasingly felt slightly better and the depression and overall mood seemed to lift little by little until I started thinking I was feeling more normal than I had been in quite some time. I started feeling a bit more interested in things again.

 

As always when the medication helps I start thinking maybe this is it, this is the medication that is going to help me, finally. So today I slipped back and had my first turn back into depression. I could tell the second I woke up. My sleep schedule had not changed but I was more tired than normal, I had to sleep another hour. I got up and its the same old same old. No motivation, hopeless, suicidal thoughts, feeling like a failure, giving up, the standard turn into darkness.

 

Now I know the first thing you're going to say of course is give it time, and I will, and maybe it will work itself out. But this is what happens, every, single, time. It's the same pattern over and over.

 

My standard rapid cycling is: I have a day or two of very mild hypomania where I feel decent, it starts to turn and then I become agitated and angry, possibly like a mixed state. Then it turns more and I have 2-4 days of moderate to severe depression. Then maybe 1 or 2 days of something resembling normal. And it starts all over again. The stronger the hypomania the worse the depression is going to be. While I'm experiencing it I don't even feel good anymore because I know it's an illusion. I know I'm going to pay dearly and everything is about to change.

 

Is this normal? Is the medication just placebo? 90% of medications I take do nothing but some of them have. Lamictal, Cymbalta, and now Seroquel are the only ones I've noticed a difference on. I've probably taken 25 different medications in my life. 15 years ago when I was in my early 20's I tried a bunch and had the same exact experience. Lithium, Depakote did nothing. I took Lamictal, it seemed to help a bit and within 3-6 months I was right back where I started.

 

Is this a personality disorder? Is this something else? This is BPII? Whatever it is my brother has it, my father - his mother - and his brother.

 

It's scary this time because it has gotten so bad I'm afraid I'm not going to make it. When my dad was in his 40's he went slick out of his mind and basically destroyed our family with a series of insane decisions over a period of 6 months. I'm 37 now and wondering if I'm progressing to whatever breaking point he was at.

 

Sorry, that was really long but I would appreciate any insight. I'm going to see a psychiatrist in a couple weeks for an intake but my past experience with them has been I rattle on for an hour and they never have any answers other than "well let's try this medication". 

[Heisok]

Anomie, is it a Psychiatrist who is treating you with these medications? The Pharmacist should have warned you about being tired from Seroquel, and provided you with a medication sheet. Did they? Seroquel is a very strong Atypical Antipsychotic. It is also used for other things, as you are finding out. You suggested it to your doctor if I read correctly? What did they indicate they wanted to accomplish, and with any titrating upwards of dose?

 

A dose of 50 mg would likely result in what you experienced. That is natural. It takes a while for your body to adjust to the side effects. As far as Lamictal, what did your Psychiatrist (I hope) suggest as the possibility of a higher dose. 200 mg twice a day is not unreasonable. I am not suggesting higher, just that it is within dosing guidelines.In my experience medications can work then level off as doses are being increased over time. That could be what is happening with the Lamictal.

 

Nates suggestion in post #7 brings up an important issue with the Seroquel. You want to be careful as weight gain, blood lipid, blood glucose issues can occur. These should all be indicted in your med sheet. My point that good nutrition (as Nate seems to be suggesting), proper sleep and exercise are important.

 

Nobody here is acting as your doctor. There might be great advice you are receiving, but getting stable should be the most important thing right now.

 

I want to clarify that I am not suggesting medication or not. All I am saying is that your reactions to both medications are within normal possibilities. Also healthy lifestyle choices are important.

 

Good luck.

Edited by Heisok, 16 February 2018 - 04:30 AM.

[Anomie]

Anomie, is it a Psychiatrist who is treating you with these medications? The Pharmacist should have warned you about being tired from Seroquel, and provided you with a medication sheet. Did they? Seroquel is a very strong Atypical Antipsychotic. It is also used for other things, as you are finding out. You suggested it to your doctor if I read correctly? What did they indicate they wanted to accomplish, and with any titrating upwards of dose?

 

A dose of 50 mg would likely result in what you experienced. That is natural. It takes a while for your body to adjust to the side effects. As far as Lamictal, what did your Psychiatrist (I hope) suggest as the possibility of a higher dose. 200 mg twice a day is not unreasonable. I am not suggesting higher, just that it is within dosing guidelines.In my experience medications can work then level off as doses are being increased over time. That could be what is happening with the Lamictal.

 

Nates suggestion in post #7 brings up an important issue with the Seroquel. You want to be careful as weight gain, blood lipid, blood glucose issues can occur. These should all be indicted in your med sheet. My point that good nutrition (as Nate seems to be suggesting), proper sleep and exercise are important.

 

Nobody here is acting as your doctor. There might be great advice you are receiving, but getting stable should be the most important thing right now.

 

My doctor is a general PA. My insurance didn't cover local mental health services until I recently changed it in the new year so now I will be going to a psychiatrist in a couple weeks for an intake. My doctor suggested it or Abilify and I chose Seroquel as I had read about it's supposed to be the best for depression. My main problem is depression and rapid cycling. She put me on 50mg for a week and then up to 100mg and then she left it up to the psychiatrist to go from there.

 

The Lamictal is at 200mg now and has been since Thanksgiving. The PA's don't want to go over 200 as their guidelines don't call for anything above that for bipolar. I know they're limited as mental health isn't their specialty but I can get better treatment now.

 

I know nobody here is acting as my doctor. I like to get insight and information so that I can better guide myself. My experience with doctors is that some of them are amazing and some of them are terrible, this goes for psychiatrists and psychologists as well. So I like to try and know as much as I can. I take advice from the internet with a heavy dose of skepticism and research whatever I can before I take action. If I read something somebody posts and it sounds like they have a unique perspective or something I don't know much about, I like to try and learn more.

 

My brother went through a decade of them trying every medicine imaginable in every combination imaginable. There was a time when I think he was on 6 different medications and was all jacked up. Some of the people that were treating him were later fired and had some kind of legal action for malpractice in other cases. One of them was abusing him and another prescribed him a combination you're not supposed to. So I'm a little cautious when it comes to blindly following whatever "experts" recommend so I look for a second opinion. When I was a teenager a psychiatrist told me I had so many problems that there was little chance I would be able to get better. This all happened in one little dysfunctional hell hole of a town so I assume it's more of a localized problem than the standard... but I don't trust so much because of it. 

[Nietzsche]

I'm someone with BPII with like a degree in it and shit... but none of this is healthcare advice (disclaimer and stuff).

 

You should find a prescriber who will go above 200mg on the lamotrigine. I'd try that before anything else, as many people find a sweet spot closer to 300mg. Especially since your initial response was positive, this suggests it may be worth titrating up to see how it goes. Stop at 250, see how it goes for awhile, then to 300. Some people may even need 400mg, which is on the higher end, but not unreasonable.

 

If that doesn't work you could try a more modern antipsychotic such as aripiprazole (Ability) or asenapine (Saphris). The latter two are considered first-line as monotherapy for mixed depression in BP II. Cariprazine too, it has a somewhat novel profile, with greater affinity for D3 than D2.

 

You don't need Seroquel. Sure, Seroquel is an effective drug, but we have plenty of better drugs available that are as effective if not more so. Abilify is very effective as an adjuvant in depression and in BP II, with FAR better side-effect profile than Seroquel.

 

 

Comments on previous advice:

- Lithium + an SSRI as advised previously is considered THIRD-line for mixed episodes, as are any protocols involve using an SSRI for BP II or mixed depression, ESPECIALLY with rapid cycling.

- I would also ignore any advice you'll receive here about supplements or other nootropics, unless you do your own research on mechanisms and understand them. I've been dealing with this for two decades, so I've had the time....

Edited by Nietzsche, 17 February 2018 - 05:23 AM.

[Nietzsche]

I missed that you chose Seroquel over Abilify. Don't do that. Abilify is perfectly fine for your symptoms with a better side-effect profile. I would try Abilify, Latuda, Saphris and iloperidone before I'd go with Seroquel. But really, the first thing I would seriously push for would a higher dose of Lamictal. If that works, I think its the better option that moving to an atypical.

Edited by Nietzsche, 17 February 2018 - 05:10 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Our friend Nietzsche has spoken true - I agree with most of what he said. = ) I was unaware of the usage of Lamotrigine at higher dosages though, I must admit.

 

A clarification on my mentioning of lithium salts:

 

Salicylate is obviously unobtainable, but there IS evidence for combining various anti-inflammatories with Lithium, in order to effect treatment-resistant depressive symptoms in BP. I will admit that I was unclear about this previously. I suggest combining Salicylic Acid with Lithium Citrate if you decide to try Lithium - lithium is indeed a powerful neurogenic and was recently moved up the ladder on multiple Bipolar treatment-algorithms, because of newer data on it.

 

 

[Eryximachus]

 

 

Is this a personality disorder? Is this something else? This is BPII? Whatever it is my brother has it, my father - his mother - and his brother.

 

It's scary this time because it has gotten so bad I'm afraid I'm not going to make it. When my dad was in his 40's he went slick out of his mind and basically destroyed our family with a series of insane decisions over a period of 6 months. I'm 37 now and wondering if I'm progressing to whatever breaking point he was at.

 

Sorry, that was really long but I would appreciate any insight. I'm going to see a psychiatrist in a couple weeks for an intake but my past experience with them has been I rattle on for an hour and they never have any answers other than "well let's try this medication". 

 

 

There is of course a major genetic component for all of these disorders.  You do not want to reach that point. Hence, it is even more important that you get as stable as you possibly can.  

 

Since depression is a major component for you, I stand by my recommendation that you stick with Seroquel.  100mg is the minimum dose for bipolar.  Doses are more typically 400mg.  In my opinion, patient compliance is MUCH better when you have one drug.  You can certainly try abilify, but it tends to cause anxiety in more depressed bipolar patients. But it might not for you. The good thing about abilify is there is an injectable form.  Given the stakes, this would be a reason to try it out over seroquel as you will be less likely to skip a dose.  Zyprexa is also a good choice, and is also injectable.  Abilify is most preferred as it causes little weight gain - but this is also why it makes many anxious. 

 

Anyway, it is very common to have to increase Seroquel doses. You need to talk to your doctor.  Very few with serious bipolar stay at 100mg per day.  

[Anomie]

Thanks for the ideas all. I think I have enough to go on for a while and will see what happens.

[GingerSnapped]

Understandably medicines take time but I'm surprised to see the amount of enthusiasm for Seroquel I see here and other similar communities online. I hope it works for OP and they should give it a legitimate shot regardless of my anecdotal experience I just find it interesting. A 25mg will put me straight to bed and that's exactly what I've used it for for years, I couldn't increase when I experimented with it. Sometimes I suspect it contributes even if small to my depression, but I'm not an expert so I'll only say suspect, it's probably a reach. And the night hunger, ugh. Go straight to bed if you're taking it at night. I've had little else than a sleep aid with weight gain from it.

Edited by GingerSnapped, 20 February 2018 - 05:56 AM.

[Eryximachus]

Understandably medicines take time but I'm surprised to see the amount of enthusiasm for Seroquel I see here and other similar communities online. I hope it works for OP and they should give it a legitimate shot regardless of my anecdotal experience I just find it interesting. A 25mg will put me straight to bed and that's exactly what I've used it for for years, I couldn't increase when I experimented with it. Sometimes I suspect it contributes even if small to my depression, but I'm not an expert so I'll only say suspect, it's probably a reach. And the night hunger, ugh. Go straight to bed if you're taking it at night. I've had little else than a sleep aid with weight gain from it.

 

Every psychiatric drug is endlessly derided on the internet.  Seroquel is a common target given its versatility. 

 

Doses of 25mg have no established therapeutic value. The drug was neither designed nor tested at such doses.  The only effect Seroquel has at 25mg is histamine receptor antagonism. Hence, it makes you tired.  Just as with Benadryl, this side effect diminishes with time.  Just as Benadryl was the original impetus for Prozac and similar drugs, antihistamines do have an antidepressant effect.  It is highly unlikely 25mg of Seroquel contributes to your depression. 

 

All of that said, if you were prescribed 25mg per night, you were either a difficult patient with personality disorder issues and it is a last ditch effort or you were given the drug explicitly as a sleep aid.  You were not given the drug for psychosis or bipolar disorder.  

 

Keep your anecdotes to yourself if you don't want to take the time to read.  LongeCity may be the last forum on the internet where discussions of psychiatric medicine doesn't descend into total madness. 

 

PS: I am not "enthusiastic" about Seroquel.  It is the only FDA approved drug that treats both bipolar mood instability and depression/anxiety.  For the OP, it is the obvious first choice. 

Edited by Eryximachus, 20 February 2018 - 10:41 AM.

[Anomie]

Something interesting I found about Seroquel. I didn't know medicines could have different effects at different doses. I always assumed whatever it did was linear.

 

http://www.jabfm.org...t/28/1/154.full

 

 

 

There has been concern of potential induction or worsening of hypomanic or manic symptoms at low doses via the ratio of 5HT2A/D2 receptor antagonism, which at lower doses favors greater 5HT2A receptor blockade and thus increases dopamine concentrations.

 

Quetiapine is a dopamine, serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine [5HT]), and norepinephrine blocker and has antihistaminergic properties. At 25 to 50 mg, quetiapine acts primarily as a histamine and α₁ adrenergic antagonist, explaining its hypnotic effects, including daytime sedation.14 As concentrations increase, quetiapine activates the adrenergic system and antagonizes serotonin 5HT_2A receptors; at higher concentrations it blocks D₂ receptors. Serotonin acts on γ-aminobutyric acid neurons, inhibiting the release of dopamine and norepinephrine; thus, when serotonin 5HT_2A receptors are blocked, serotonin is suppressed and dopamine concentrations are enhanced in the forebrain.15,16 At doses of ≤300 mg of quetiapine, the ratio of 5HT_2A to D₂ receptor antagonism favors greater 5HT_2A receptor blockade; consequently, serotonin 5HT_2Areceptors are blocked, but D₂ receptors have not been significantly blocked at this dose, potentially leading to net pro-dopaminergic effects.

 

 

 

Edited by Anomie, 20 February 2018 - 06:53 PM.

[GingerSnapped]

I'm sorry my tone implied derision. I was not critiquing your input. I have bipolar disorder and attempted to use it as a mood stablizer to no positive effect and just kept it as a sleep aid. To clarify I'm glad Longecity is here and spaces like this, Reddit has been taken over by antipsychs, I should have stated my larger question as to why it seems to have a larger population of enthusiasts among nootropic fans or spaces such as this. Benefits or reasons not discussed where traditonal discussions of medicines are had.

Edited by GingerSnapped, 20 February 2018 - 07:35 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

I'm sorry my tone implied derision. I was not critiquing your input. I have bipolar disorder and attempted to use it as a mood stablizer to no positive effect and just kept it as a sleep aid. To clarify I'm glad Longecity is here and spaces like this, Reddit has been taken over by antipsychs, I should have stated my larger question as to why it seems to have a larger population of enthusiasts among nootropic fans or spaces such as this. Benefits or reasons not discussed where traditonal discussions of medicines are had.

 

I, personally, haven't noticed any enthusiasm over it? I've mostly seen, other than this thread, the trademark negativity towards AP's, when it's been discussed. Anyways, I suppose it's the semi-activating properties it has, when used at specific doses - nootropics-enthusiasts are generally suckers for dopamine, it would seem.

 

Now, DOPAMINE, that seems to really be unnecessarily positively viewed in the nootropics-community - irregardless of its problematic connections to psychosis, paranoia and ANXIETY - seems like people easily forget that there are negatives to this compound.

 

Meanwhile, Norepinephrine is needlessly derided, seen as the devil itself! I will admit towards being unneccessarily negative towards it myself, previously - my positivity these days, is of course probably connected to the recent data on SCT indicating increased NE can treat the symptoms - so we've all got our little cognitive biases.