$1 Cryonics support subscriptions
YOLF 14 Mar 2014
So I noticed the newsletter gets sent to 12,000 active users and that the price of a KrioRus neuro was $12,000! If we could get everyone on it we could give away 12 neuros a year. I'd like to add the cryonics support subscription to the LC store as a $1 subscription (buyers would be able to buy more than one if they wanted to pay more towards the cryonics support and we've have it be a $12 annual subscription. We could also offer monthly subscriptions starting at $5 and $10 for those wishing to support more. Those enrolled in the subscription would have a tag added to their name similar to what F@H, something like Cryonics Supporter or CryoSupport.
If everyone gave $1 we'd have 12 KrioRus neuro suspensions to give away each year or 4 CI suspensions ($35000ea), or 2 Australian suspensions ($72,000ea), or 1 Alcor neuro 1 ($84000) 1 CI suspension ($32000), and 2 KrioRus neuros (@$14000). I've marked up the costs so we're not taking advantage of the minimum funding, but I'd also hope that the winner would help support the cryoproviders in some way seeing as they are getting something for free. Or we would have a ton of support to throw at Venturism campaigns. We would of course keep the success of the program secret so we could still benefit from individual cryonics support drives and let Venturism raise money from the person's relatives and loved ones as this raises awareness outside of our membership/industry.
Edited by cryonicsculture, 15 April 2014 - 04:21 AM.
caliban 16 Mar 2014
I'm sure there are ways around it but the complexities are a bit daunting.
The support for pooling funds for cryonics hardship cases was identified as the priority in this space.
Moving to 'ideas' forum if there are no objections.
Droplet 16 Mar 2014
YOLF 17 Mar 2014
I have in the past suggested a raffle, but have since realized that it won't work st present. This is a better idea anyways and it's easy to setup. Just add another item to the store and put a banner for it in the unused ad space rotation, then I'll put the "CryoSupporter" tag or icon in the subscriber's registered user/etc text box. I think I saw something to the effect of a post signature that can be enabled to which we could add tags and such for users.
Edited by cryonicsculture, 17 March 2014 - 10:18 AM.
Stella 21 Mar 2014
YOLF 21 Mar 2014
For the promotional events we'd be aiming to achieve maximum membership/user growth or substantial growth into new markets. promotional events would only occur when we had raised enough to fund all immediate charity patients and only when it would be expected that we would have a net benefit from doing so which would allow us more leverage.
All cryonics donations and support would be owned by LC until disbursed to a cryoprovider and be transferable only between cryonics charity organizations such as the Society for Venturism, the Church of Perpetual Life, etc. and not from the recipient to another party. This would allow for us to support someone to raise the initial funds for a KR neuro when demand is high, but allow other organizations to fund raise in excess of it for preservation at the Cryonics Institute, Alcor, or the Australian cryoprovider which is currently being founded.
Stella 21 Mar 2014
YOLF 21 Mar 2014
http://www.longecity...nd/#entry651066
And here:
http://www.longecity...067#entry651067
This project would run an indiegogo campaign or similar to raise money for the cost of one neuro suspension at KrioRus and enough to transport the patient to Moscow. This preservation would be available in emergencies for LongeCity members
Under my plan, the IGG campaign would fund the first members only cryopreservation and monies collected in excess of this would be available for non members. Further a small percentage of subscription monies would be allocated for the member cryopreservation to expand the number of suspensions we can afford in dire circumstances. If a Member is preserved, all subscription funds would be used to refill the last number of cryosuspensions held for members. So if we've had as many as two, the funding would refill until we had two again, and then go back to the regular 80/20 (Anyone/Members) allocation. Further, we would run individual fundraisers on site before disbursing the funds. So if Anyone or Member needs to be cryopreserved, we would raise as much money for their cryopreservation as possible until the time of their deanimation before tapping the respective funds. If monies are raised in excess of the cost of a KR neuro, those funds may be passed on to other organizations who are raising money for preservation elsewhere, but will revert to the custody of LC if the goal is not reached. So if A/M needs cryopreservation and manages to raise $3k in excess of the cost of a KR neuro, succeeds in raising the $30k for whole body with CI, but fails to raise enough for an $80k suspension at Alcor, the $3k would be disbursed to CI. If they were to fail to raise the money necessary for CI and be preserved with KR, the $3k would go into the Anyone fund.
caliban 21 Mar 2014
Good news 2: Such a 'pay points (or money) for badges' scheme should be quite doable.Just add another item to the store and put a banner for it in the unused ad space rotation, then I'll put the "CryoSupporter" tag or icon in the subscriber's registered user/etc text box. I think I saw something to the effect of a post signature that can be enabled to which we could add tags and such for users.
However, there are quite a few challenges with a scheme like you suggest in your last post. Apart from the endorsement of a particular cryonics provider and the legal difficulties with fundraising for a members only benefit, the criticism that is often levelled at 'pooled'schemes is that contributors may be lulled into a sense of complacency, neglecting to make their own arrangement because they paid into some scheme (that could all to easily turn out to be of the Ponzi variety, even if that was never intended).
YOLF 22 Mar 2014
I also don't think we're endorsing a particular provider. Those we raise funds for are more than welcome to raise funds for other cryoproviders and if they get enough, we'll be contributing to them. But our goal is to serve as many people as possible and that means we have to buy them the cheap cryonics. Hopefully CI will see how much money they are losing and offer neurosuspension to compete with them. IMO, the whole body only reasoning is getting silly and we need to focus on serving as many patients as possible, even if it means swallowing our pride on a few things. I think we'll also see more companies offering low cost cryonics in the future at rates near KR. It's just a matter of seeing them get started.
In any case we can explain that we aren't endorsing KR somewhere in the programs documentation and the the choice of KR is to serve a maximum number of people. If we are later able to afford more through the program, we can start offering to pay more CI or Alcor services. As technology improves it could also be the case that it gets cheaper.
Stella 22 Mar 2014
It probably won't start gaining any traction until the first successful preservation from the fund, however. That event would be enough to warrant news items in various publications and possibly start the momentum building, which is what is really desirable. The biggest mid-long term goal would be to gain a critical mass of followers such that numbers grow noticeably through word of mouth and so on.
YOLF 22 Mar 2014
Stella 22 Mar 2014
YOLF 22 Mar 2014
Shannon Vyff 24 Mar 2014
LongeCity has a cryonics charity already in place where it could be worded that it will benefit LongeCity members only, with at least one every five years or so being funded depending on how the projected numbers look. Five years seems reasonable. The money could be given to the Venturists to go through the tax deductible cryonics charity - or could go directly to the cryonics organization. It is not just 12k for KrioRus, it costs at least 10k or more for transport and the paperwork/red tape may not always be attainable. The Venturists have looked into this as well as Frontier Cryonics (a new organization that is looking to work with Oregon Cryonics or whomever else gets any low cost chemical or cryonic brain preservation going. No one is yet set up for brain only, for instance, that could possibly get the price down to around 5k). KrioRus may work for some countries but currently it looks to be too difficult from the States.
It would be great to see LongeCity promote their own cryonics charity more - and to work with other cryonics charities to get help with the legalities. There have to be guidelines on who would qualify as well, currently the Venturists only take on cases where they have verified the person not only does not have the funds but also does not have the ability to get life insurance or provide their own funding in the future.
YOLF 24 Mar 2014
I like that they also have chemical options too, though I'm not sure what exactly that is or how much I support that yet. Still need more info. We obviously don't want to start a company that will tank and take people with it. But the support I've been planning for the industry will help give their early clients more peace of mind.
What are the potential legal problems?
Edited by cryonicsculture, 24 March 2014 - 11:03 PM.
Shannon Vyff 25 Mar 2014
Legal problems in regards to who the money is for- or where it is going, what guarantees there are for the person, who is responsible for suspension etc. - potential litigation from family, potential jeopardization of non profit status.
YOLF 25 Mar 2014
I think we can fix the legal issues and make this a safer venture if we change our fundraising strategy. I don't see any legal issues with raising funds for John/Jane Cryonics if we state ahead of time that in the interest of successful future fundraisers, all funds not spent on John/Jane Cryonics will go into a separate cryonics support investment to be spent at the discretion of the LongeCity board on the next patient or in the interest of lowering the cost of cryonics/keeping it low. The more specific promises we want to make, the more legally entangled we may become. This money should be different from the regular budget and shouldn't count towards our total assets for the purpose of planning the budget as it could become quite large.
The subscription funds will go into a separate cryonics support investment account (CSIA) to be spent at the discretion of the LongeCity board on the next patient or in the interest of lowering the cost of cryonics/keeping it low. It will be from this fund that LongeCity does matching fundraisers or emergency disbursements to people receiving cryonics. Funds raised for a specific candidate for cryonics support where the donations are below a specified limit will be absorbed by the CSIA. Those above the limit may be refunded at the request of the donor if the request is received w/in 30 days of the death of the candidate for cryonics support where the funds are not used for their preservation. Chemical preservation is an acceptable form of preservation where cryonics funding is not reached and monies in excess of this and related costs will be considered over funding and will be moved to the CSIA. Monies raised in excess of the funding goal will go to towards the next cryonics goal if other organizations are fundraising for additional services or preservation at higher price point when that goal would be reached by the addition of the funds. Otherwise, excess funds will be moved to the CSIA.
Hows that look?
caliban 25 Mar 2014
I'm still unclear about the aims. The current hardship fund is for hardship cases.
If you wanted to raise funds in support of "lowering the cost of cryonics" that seems a bit different.
YOLF 25 Mar 2014
Shannon Vyff 28 Mar 2014
We do already have our own LongeCity cryonics charity fund, so adding a subscription to donate to it would be easy to do. SfV has also tried to say chemical could be used, but many people don't want to try that and they want to have control (as well as they should have control) over what happens to them at their legal death. SfV lets the people make their own arrangements and will not force someone to do something they don't want to do. If anything, LongeCity needs to put more wording into what circumstances its cryonics charity fund will be used. I would recommend that we leave it as we have, where it is open to anyone and not specific to LongeCity members. The board should take into consideration individual cases that apply and then decide if the funds will go straight to the cryonics organization the hardship recipient contracts with, such as SfV does, or will do to another charitable cryonics organization such as SfV or Frontier Cryonics if the individual is also having funds raised by one of them.
Layberinthius 22 Apr 2014
I will gladly subscribe to $20 per month if I can be guaranteed that my mind won't be uploaded to a computer (unless it is merely as a backup incase of my death or failure to rescuscitate).
I would like to have my current brain put into a jar and attached to a robotic body and/or reborn as a new person. I'm also in Australia which makes things a tad more difficult.
I believe death to be certian and that jumping across to a computer as a virtual cybernetic mind as being no-longer myself, no longer me and therefore undesirable.
There would also be other minor customizations which I would probably want or desire too.
There is also a "time of death" warning system which would be awesome to have, something which synchs to a wifi access point and keeps tabs on me at all times, and in the event of death immediatley notifies the closest hospital that there is a potential cryonics patient incoming.
Certianly becoming a complex issue. Another spanner in the works is the fact that you guys would basically have to own or operate as a cryonics corporation, either that or gather the financial, legal, and guiding support of one.
Edited by Layberinthius, 22 April 2014 - 03:34 PM.
YOLF 22 Apr 2014
The monitoring software already exists though it isn't official. You wouldn't be getting cryonics for your subscription. The subscription would be going to pay for charity cases. If you'd like to apply once we get the cryonics subscriptions up and running you'd be more than welcome to.
Australia has a new cryonics company that will be doing the procedure for $70K USD IIRC for whole body. KrioRus in Moscow will do neuro for $12K and Oregon Cryonics in the US will do neuro for $14K.
Edited by cryonicsculture, 22 April 2014 - 07:31 PM.
Danail Bulgaria 25 Jun 2014
Correct me if I am wrong, but...
Asuming that 1000 people will be in such a scheme, and assuming that each of them will need one and the same amounth of money (12 000 USD), and assuming, that they all have to be cryopreserved, then you will need 1000 x 12 000 = 12 000 000 USD for them all.
With 12 000 payed each year, you will need 1000 years to collect the necessary money to criopreserve all people in the list.
So, cryopreserving all the people in the list in these conditions is impossible.
This scheme will benefit only those, who will be criopreserved firstly. They will pay 1 USD for only several moths / years and will be criopreserved virtually for free with the money of the rest of the people in the list.
Then those, who are cryopreserved, will stop paying the 1 USD (since they will not be cappable to do so). The people, who will be stopping to pay (the cryopreserved) will be more and more each year, and the people, who will pay will be becomming fewer and fewer.
Those, who will have to be criopreserved the last, will not have enough money for their criopreservation. But they will have payed the criopreservation of the people before them.
Simmilar schemes exist for quite a long time, and they have won the reputation of an efficient way to steal money from naive people.
Danail Bulgaria 25 Jun 2014
P.S. Calculations seem to be simmilar with 12 000 people in the list:
12 000 people x 12 000 USD needed for each in the list = 144 000 000 USD needed for all
12 months x 12 000 USD for a month = 144 000 gathered a year
144 000 000 / 144 000 gatherea for an year = 1000 years needed to be collected the money for all in the list
YOLF 26 Jun 2014
In reference to a post that I removed so it wouldn't confuse anyone:
Subscriptions don't guarantee you a cryopreservation. You're subscribing to a donation level or making a one time payment and the money goes specifically to this project. Basically, pay $5, $8, or $12/yr so LongeCity can help needy people have a chance at cryopreservation. You'd also be able to make one time donations. It's not a pyramid scheme.
What made you think that we were going to try to cryopreserve all subscribers? I guess I'll need to fix that part.
Edited by cryonicsculture, 26 June 2014 - 12:25 AM.
Shannon Vyff 26 Jun 2014
In the initial wording it sounds a bit like anyone participating would be automatically entered in for a chance at a cryopreservation. It also isn't clear if only people who have supported the charity in the past will be able to apply for the charity. There should be clear guidelines there- who can apply and that all "supporters" are "donators" My editing is below.
____________________
LongeCity Cryonics Hardship Fund Applicant Criteria -
- Anyone may apply for cryopreservation, you need not be a donor.
- Applicant must not be able to afford preservation on their own.
- People who are important to the RLE movement and those who are LongeCity members will be given preference when non-emergency patients are applying.
- Applicant must help to fundraise for their preservation to reduce costs in order to ensure a maximal amount of preservations can be funded.
Edited by Shannon Vyff, 06 July 2014 - 07:52 PM.
YOLF 26 Jun 2014
Applicant Criteria -
- Anyone may apply for cryopreservation, you need not be a donor.
- Applicant must not be able to afford preservation on their own.
- People who are important to the RLE movement and those who are LongeCity members will be given preference when non-emergency patients are applying.
- Applicant must help to fundraise for their preservation to reduce costs in order to ensure a maximal amount of preservations can be funded.
Prize Criteria -
- LongeCity, may where permitted by the project rules and permitted by law, hold contests and award the winner with a cryopreservation, lifetime membership to a cryonics organization, or other relevant prize of their choosing to be paid for from the CSIA.
Danail Bulgaria 29 Jun 2014
"In reference to a post that I removed ... "
Was this my post?
How did you removed it? Will you please tell me how, since I am not able to change or remove my posts. Since people, who are not authors of posts can remove them, there should be a way for the author to edit/remove.
Thanks ion advance for the answer!
Shannon Vyff 06 Jul 2014
All members can edit their own posts for a short time, then it is closed off for editing by anyone but a member of leadership. This is done to keep the continuance of older posts, if anyone needs to have their own post edited they can ask one of our leadership to edit it. Anyone is welcome to help out in leadership as well