brain fog, bad fatigue, please help
purerealm 19 Sep 2005
I remember mild symptoms when I was very young, maybe around 9 years old, and I remember it from this mental arithmetic class that I used to take that taught how to do simple arithmetic functions like multiplying dividing adding and subtracting big numbers, multiple times, fast. It's based on the abacus and trying to imagine an abacus inside your head while doing the calculations.
When I first started the class I remember feeling really sharp and I learned everything real quick. I felt like I could advance very swiftly. But eventually, I started to feel like my calculations were slowing down , and in addition, I was second-guessing myself much more often, and I was becoming inaccurate while calculating as well.
At the time, I attributed it to lack of sleep because the class was on saturday mornings and I'd stay up late on friday nights after a language class and watch tv.
I remember feeling "dumbed down" after that, and I have never achieved the same level of cognitive function again. I'm also chronically tired, so fatigued that I don't even feel like going out to have fun with friends. A big reason contributing to this is that I often find myself trying very hard (too hard) to converse with others. I keep on forgetting that word that I'm looking for and instead I usually end up pausing for a moment to think of the word, and then not coming up with it and using a simple, universal substitute word like "stuff."
As you may imagine, I probably come off as being pretty unintelligent. I don't even like to meet new people anymore.
Even after getting about 10 hours of sleep, I find myself with hardly any energy, and definitely no motivation. Simple cognitive tasks like reading a few pages will overwhelm my brain so much that I'll have to lie down, close my eyes, and rest for a few minutes before being able to read some more.
I usually just stay indoors near my bed and computer, laying down every so often to rest, not having any motivation to go out and do something unless I really put my mind to it. This is just a bit exaggerated, as I am still somewhat functional physically, but I get mentally fatigued extremely easily.
I don't even have an imagination anymore. In my younger years I dreamt of becoming a scientist or an inventor and I would always think up of vivid and imaginative things. I could also imagine complex objects like how a 2d or 3d object would look if revolved , and manipulated in many different ways ( I think this is a test used in measuring IQ).
Now, such a feat would be just impossible. I don't even get closed-eye visuals anymore. What I mean is, physically, I don't even have an imagination anymore. I don't pictures things in my head with ease anymore, and if I try really hard, I can get at most a very grainy low quality picture in my head. I used to be top of my class in math in like 4rth grade. Now I'm failing every math class I take, and I'm about to be kicked out of college because I can't handle any of my classes.
I have developed a slight stutter in these past few years, often occuring when my brain doesn't feel like it's functioning right. An example would be during a hangover. Sometimes my brain feels so foggy that I even have problems pronouncing words correctly. An anxiety makes this even worse. Ironically enough, I'm guessing that a lot of the anxiety comes from realizing that I have a serious cognitive deficit.
I also have problems hearing words correctly ( i mistakenly think that they say another word), maintaining attention on one speaker when I'm focused on something else, and listening to two speakers at once.
I was diagnosed with ADD recently, and put on adderall. The adderall helped with the mental fatigue, and it really helped with motivation, but I still felt like something was missing. I was still unable to solve problems and such involving complex thinking.
I suspect my dopamine system is one of the culprits because of the lack of motivation. Reading school readings is so hard for me to do, I'll read 2 lines and not comprehend a single thing of what I had read. Reading things that excite me, like this forum, is much easier and doesn't take as much effort, although I still do get easily mentally fatigued. Listening to lectures is also extremely hard. Most times the lectures just go into one ear and straight out the other. I also usually start yawning within 10 min of the start of the lecture. Extreme boredom starts building up , which then makes the fatigue worse, and sometimes I'll have to try very hard just to stay awake, which is ironic because I have bad insomnia and can't fall asleep unless I'm exhausted.
So I thought maybe this had something to do with hyperthyroidism, as I had trouble sleeping when I was young because the pillows or blankets would always feel too warm for comfort.
I still have to get this checked out with an endocrinologist, but I read that hyperthyroidism would at most only exhibit mild brain fog symptoms.
When I was young, I adopted my mother's vegetarian lifestyle, except without the same foods. I was a really picky eater and in fact most of the foods I ate were probably junk food. Really bad carbs, hardly any protein. Now, I eat a much more balanced diet but the brain fog and everythign else is still there.
i've tried piracetam, alcar, and choline. I don't think piracetam helps me at all. I think I read somewhere that piracetam doesn't help people if their blood flow isn't fast enough.
I'm going to try deprenyl and vinpocetine and see if they are of any help to me.
this problem has always been extremely frustrating, but now I feel like I'm going to fall into an unending chasm if I don't find the solution to this problem soon. The multitude of problems this problem has caused for me have been very stressful, and even paralyzing. I don't function like a normal person anymore, I don't like to talk to people anymore ( probably partially due to lack of motivation or something wrong with my dopamine system, and also because I usually find myself more anxious and stressed out about what I'm going to say then enjoying conversation, my anxiety has shot up through the roof, and I'm about to be kicked out of school. I really don't know what to do with myself anymore. i've tried a bunch of different things, and none of them have very much effect on this situation. in the past few years i've also developed a dyslexia and I switch around words pretty regularly now when I type and write, and in certain phrases too.
i'm in dire need, please help me.
johnmk 19 Sep 2005
Deprenyl can help. Do not exceed 5mg/day without consulting authority on the subject greater than I. Also consider pyritinol, do a search to find a proper dosage. Do you eat meat, beef, etc.? Perhaps try supplementing creatine monohydrate in any event. With regards to hyper- vs. hypo-thyroidism, and other disorders, why not get a full physical examination in the event that you have something commonplace enough that the medical establishment can identify it?
Guest_da_sense_* 19 Sep 2005
johnmk 19 Sep 2005
jubai 19 Sep 2005
Have you had braces?
Do you grind your teeth at night?
At 20 I was starting to feel symptoms similar to yours (not as severe, but still a definite brain fog and lack of energy). I took the decision to remove my 8 fillings and go through a chelation therapy. The 2 first months were very tough, the symptoms got worse as a lot of mercury was moving around my body (I had absorged some with the procedure, although they were very careful, dental dam, vacuum and all).
After 3 months of DMSA (mercury chelator) and a lot of anti-oxydants I started to feel better. Then I combined this with ALA to increase the chelation, up to the point were I would not get side-effects during a "cycle".
It has been a year now and I feel back to normal, really was one of the best decisions of my life.
PS: my chelation therapy stack and schedule was more complex than that.
Just something to ponder...
fitos 19 Sep 2005
The reasons were heavy family problems, my grades went down and i never completly recover (my math teacher said something to my mother like "He was my best student, now look at him.").
I did had motivation, i didnt want to see my mother more sad (and she would be if i failed).
Back then i didnt had many friends either.
It might be just me but i do see a lot of similarities (which i won't go 1by1).
Can you just try to pass this year? With adderall, etc?
Life will balance out.
Can you find a reason for your state? Anything that caused you to become depressed?
I'm just trying the psychological aproach.
I do think a good psychologist will help.
Good luck
purerealm 19 Sep 2005
I forgot to add that I'm not a vegetarian anymore, I started eating meat again about 4 years ago.
I've had a silver filling when I was much younger, maybe around 10, and I've had braces after that, removed about 4 years ago.
I guess I'll make an appointment with a neurologist somewhere. I'm guessing that I'll have to take some expensive SPECT scans or something.
Fitos, I'm at the point where certain things can easily disrupt my emotional stability. A few weeks ago I was supposed to give a presentation for a class, and when I got up my anxiety took over and I couldn't remember what I was talking about and I couldn't even get words out without thinking them through in my head anxiously and thinking if they sounded right. It was pretty disastrous and the entire class must have wondered what the hell my problem was. Well, during that episode I was thinking how the hell it could be happening to me like that, and afterwards I was just furious with myself and how I am. As it was finals week, I lost all confidence in myself and motivation to study any further and failed the final the next day.
I do have some friends but I always manage to feel disconnected and sometimes push myself away. Stress is a big part of my life and it can make me go haywire sometimes too.
jubai 19 Sep 2005
A simple urine sample won't do, you'll have to provoke a mercury leakage with DMSA and THEN give a urine sample to be compared to a normal, baseline level.
worldeater 19 Sep 2005
A few weeks ago I was supposed to give a presentation for a class, and when I got up my anxiety took over and I couldn't remember what I was talking about and I couldn't even get words out without thinking them through in my head anxiously and thinking if they sounded right.
Don't worry about this. This is normal. It happens to 99% of people. Some are just better at others at hiding it. Public speaking takes a ton of practice, which basically amounts to just falling on your face a thousand times until you get comfortable with it.
Guest_da_sense_* 19 Sep 2005
Agreed. It's too bad so many people lack the insurance or financial wherewithall to make that all happen though, da_sense. I feel very lucky that I'll have health insurance starting 9/26.
Pardon me I come from a country where almost everyone has health insurance, so i rarely think about that
purerealm 19 Sep 2005
So I filled 3 vials of blood today.
How does testing for heavy metals work? Am I going to have to fill many vials?
I'll get it done as soon as I get back to school as I came back home for the weekend.
On another note, I just received a letter saying that I am going to be reinstated on probation, I guess I'll give it another shot.
darauch 20 Sep 2005
7 months ago I began having a condition similar to yours. At the time I thought it was something called overtraining syndrome; a condition a lot like chronic fatigue that can result from doing too much exercise. (I was also very stressed from all of my college work). My symptoms were the following: I felt constantly fatigued, my temperature would spike after just a bit of physical activity, I sweated alot and my thirst seemed endless, I found it hard to concentrate, and my sleep was shallow and intermittent. I stopped exercising, thinking that this would allow me to recover. After 4 months of no exercise I saw no improvement, and my symptoms might have even gotten a bit worse. Finally, I figured I would try exercising again and see whether this helped. To my surprise it did; I really wasn't expecting it to. After just 5 minutes of running on the treadmill my symptoms completely dissapeared. From that point on I began exercising regularly and have felt very good since.
I think this condition was largely psychological. That is to say, the combination of stress without effective outlets created an emotional loop that debilitated me. It wasn't until I broke this cycle with exercise that I began to feel relief (and dramatic relief, at that). Perhaps you're suffering from the same thing I suffered from. You certainly fit my profile; I'm also quite anxious in social situations. So perhaps try exercising.
paul 20 Sep 2005
Has any one else had any experience with taking st johns wort for reasons other than depresion because i have found it a great mood improver but not too sure on its safety long term. Is it wise to take it as a supplement?
purerealm 20 Sep 2005
doesn't do jack for me, but rhodiola rosea did at first.
I don't know if it was placebo or not but I felt calm and had a pretty good sense of well-being.
st johns wort is a nice supplement, and I believe it should be safe, but not as strong as vinpocetine.
alexoverhere 23 Sep 2005
How is your diet now? Do you take a multivitamin? When you were vegetarian, did you have any sources of B12?
purerealm 23 Sep 2005
My diet now mostly consists of tortilla, cheese, chicken, and orange juice.
pretty hard to eat enough greens when you're a college student but i eat a healthy salad every now and then
When I was a vegetarian, I don't think I had many sources of anything nutritious in my diet. The only meal I ate that wasn't so bad was the one my mother cooked for dinner. It had a lot of rice, and a few vegetables (not enough ). My dad loves eating sweets for breakfast and I ate those for breakfast sometimes.
I also read that neurotransmitter deficiencies can also cause these sort of symptoms. I'm tired all of the time and my thoughts are very scattered. I've actually read that hyperthyroidism can cause a dampening in the effects of dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine, which is why stimulants such as Adderall do so well to treat thyroid related fatigue as they help the neurochemicals to soak longer in the synapse.
I don't take a multivitamin because I've had a few occasions where I either took them on an empty stomach, or took too many and felt really nauseated. Either that or I took 5-htp and felt nauseated from that I guess.
But now that you mention it, I think I'll start taking one every single day.
And by "nothing seriously wrong", do you have anything in mind? My life's been pretty dreadful, as if I've been in some clouded dream that I have absolutely no control over. Just looking for a moment of clarity.
I've also been through a pretty bad episode of depression, and I feel quite a bit of anxiety now, general and social, probably partially due to my not knowing what's going on around me and unable to communicate normally.
lemon 24 Sep 2005
It is my belief eating healthy is number one. All the micro quantities (supplements) are not as health impacting as the macro quantities of food you ingest every day. Eat whole and organic when you can.
Fish oil, piracetam/choline, and green/white tea (not the tea bags in supermarkets. A good loose leaf grade) I recommend for mood and clarity along with a high potency multi-nutrient formula of course (I take L.E.F. Mix).
Stay away from artificial additives such as aspartame (a well known neurotoxin).
I wish you the best.
purerealm 27 Sep 2005
He said my symptoms seem like I'm just very sensitive to treating my body badly and that my adrenal glands are probably depleted.
He gave me some pregnenolone and a multivitamin and told me to eat raw vegetables and siberian ginseng and to eat less meat and cheese and begin exercising and to go to bed, sleep at same time everyday, and stay away from alcohol and marijuana.
I think the adrenal glands must be the main problem.
ajnast4r 30 Sep 2005
Any recommendations for someone with burnt out adrenal glands?
meditation, yoga, exercise daily: to keep stress down... VERY important
rhodiola, ashwagandha, licorice(as long as you monitor your blood pressure), and a few grams of buffered C spread out over the day... to help balance the endocrine glands...
no caffeine at all other than green tea
lemme also add that you should be eating alot of vitaminC containing foods... a big glass of FRESHLY squeezed orange juice once or twice a day. you wont get the tyrosinase from supplements
purerealm 30 Sep 2005
I know I'm not supposed to take any stimulants, but what about depressants? What's the best way to maintain cognitive function despite being a cannabis user? I think it slows down the mind by constricting the blood vessels in the brain. So it would be logical to assume that using a vasodilator like vinpocetine would balance that effect out?
velocidex 30 Sep 2005
LifeMirage 30 Sep 2005
I know I'm not supposed to take any stimulants, but what about depressants? What's the best way to maintain cognitive function despite being a cannabis user? I think it slows down the mind by constricting the blood vessels in the brain. So it would be logical to assume that using a vasodilator like vinpocetine would balance that effect out?
The Neuropeptide Vasopressin is quickly used up when smoking cannabis....many people find 2-4 sprays helpful.
purerealm 30 Sep 2005
dopamine 30 Sep 2005
The Neuropeptide Vasopressin is quickly used up when smoking cannabis....many people find 2-4 sprays helpful.
I couldn't find any studies establishing a connection between vasopressin release and the neurological effects of cannabis. Maybe you found something that I didn't. Could you point us to some literature on this?
mitkat 30 Sep 2005
purerealm 07 Oct 2005
http://club.telepoli...ressin_glos.htm
http://www.erowid.or...marts_faq.shtml
Apparently the connection between vasopressin release and smoking cannabis is that there is no release, marijuana inhibits the vasopressin.
Stimulants, on the other hand, is what LM mistook for using up vasopressin quickly.
LifeMirage 07 Oct 2005
QUOTE
The Neuropeptide Vasopressin is quickly used up when smoking cannabis....many people find 2-4 sprays helpful.
I couldn't find any studies establishing a connection between vasopressin release and the neurological effects of cannabis. Maybe you found something that I didn't. Could you point us to some literature on this?
Stimulants, on the other hand, is what LM mistook for using up vasopressin quickly.
A few of my colleagues have done testing on the various neurochemical changes induced by illegal drugs….I unfortunately am not aware of published studies on this subject….however many people responded quite well to vasopressin.
guesting 14 Oct 2005
Have you looked into the possibility of Fibromyalgia or Chronic Fatigue. I have FM and could have written you previous post word for word....the math problems, the conversational problems, everything, even the adrenal fatigue. It's a misconception that FM is a muscular disorder, it's more a biochemical one with various other possiblities still being researched. You should definately check a few sites.......fmaware.org or immunesupport.com. Unfortunately you'll need to do a bit of reading to try and get a handle on the condition. Brain fog is major component even if it isn't mentioned as often as it should be.The various forums are perhaps a good place to start. Good luck.
sunny 01 Jan 2006
Firstly I wanted to say that you write very well. You are well-versed, make no spelling mistakes, and you are a lot more coherent than I was at 18. You may feel that you have no imagination or ambition, but you obviously have a good head on your shoulders and you're in college -that's very ambitious.
Secondly, according to your post, it seems as though maybe the college scene is a little overwhelming for you at this time. Maybe you're taxing yourself. Would it be possible for you to cut down on some of your classes? If so, you could fill in the gaps in your schedule with exercise and rest. If not, maybe you really should leave for a while, get a job, and return to college when you will be feeling better.
I was wondering whether you've discussed your lethargy to your parents? Since you're only 18 I think they ought to know and hopefully guide you to seek the help you need.
I'm sure there certain supplements that will help you out, but, as other members have already conveyed, you first must undergo a complete physical, including blood and urine tests, and a visit to a neurologist to cancel out any physical causes.
Many of us have periods of lethargy, mild depression, etc. but usually at a more advanced age. At 18, you should be at your top form.
If your tests all come out positive and a neurologist finds nothing wrong as well, you will need to evaluate a few areas of your life:
How are your eating and sleeping habits?
You may be suffering from constant fatigue syndrome.
You are a college student - do you also keep a job? That would be extremely exhausting.
Are you depressed? Are you experiencing problems at school or at work? Do you socialize?
Are you physically active?
Please seek help for no 18 year old should have to feel the way you are.
I hope you don't feel I'm condescending or anything of the sort. I'm forty-two years, and am mother to four children from 12.5 to 20.5 years old. One of my sons is 18. It's natural that I feel protective of all youngsters the age of my kids.
Meanwhile, I would recommend the following supplements for starters:
- a good multi-vitamin - multi-mineral supplement.
- fish oil
- spirulina (it's expensive)
- acidophilus culture (or purchase milk and yogurts with acidophilus culture)
- DMAE
If other members reading this think that the above supplements may interefere with the supplements you are already taking, please do not hesitate to post your reservations. I'm no expert.
I would do a search on the web to make sure that none of the supplements you are currently taking and those you may be considering taking will interefere with one another. This forum is excellent for information and for posting questions.
There are other web sites where you can obtain information and post questions, as I'm sure you are aware: www.physicianformulas.com, nativeremedies.com, etc.
Keep us updated on your situation and progress.
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