L-arginine
boily 26 Jan 2007
You may want to avoid supplements that contain L-arginine. Syracuse University researchers recently discovered that the amino acid diminishes the normal post-exercise release of growth hormone, which signals your body to build muscle and burn fat.
When men in the study popped an L-arginine capsule before pumping iron, their growth hormone output fell by half.
zoolander 26 Jan 2007
If you have the magazine could you possibly post a reference to the actual study??
boily 26 Jan 2007
Boily,
If you have the magazine could you possibly post a reference to the actual study??
The magazine had no references, however I googled and found the study.....
http://www.fituncens...inina-e-gh.html
The same link also has a few other L-arginine studies, I don't know how reliable the info is, would like to discuss.....
Oral arginine does not stimulate basal or augment exercise-induced GH secretion in either young or old adults.
* Marcell TJ,
* Taaffe DR,
* Hawkins SA,
* Tarpenning KM,
* Pyka G,
* Kohlmeier L,
* Wiswell RA,
* Marcus R.
Department of Exercise Science, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, USA. marcellt@grc.nia.nih.gov
BACKGROUND: Growth hormone (GH) helps maintain body composition and metabolism in adults. However, basal and peak GH decline with age. Exercise produces a physiologic GH response that is subnormal in elderly people. Arginine (Arg) infusion can augment GH secretion, but the efficacy of oral Arg to improve GH response to exercise has not been explored. We investigated whether oral Arg increases GH secretion in young and old people at rest and during exercise. METHODS: Twenty young (Y: 22.1 +/- 0.9 y; SEM) and 8 old (O: 68.5 +/- 2.1 y) male and female subjects underwent three different trials following determination of their one-repetition maximum strength (1-RM); exercise only (EO; 3 sets, 8-10 reps at 85% of 1-RM; on 12 separate resistive lifts), Arg only (5.0 g), or Arg + exercise. Blood samples were collected between successive lifts, and GH (ng x ml(-1)) was determined via RIA. RESULTS: In Y vs O: Basal GH secreted (area under the curve) was 543.6 +/- 84.0 vs 211.5 +/- 63.0. During EO, values were 986.6 +/- 156.6 and 517.8 +/- 85.5. Both were significantly lower in the older individuals (p < .05). Oral Arg alone did not result in any increase in GH secretion at rest (310.8 +/- 73.2 vs 262.9 +/- 141.2). When Arg was coadministered during exercise, GH release was not affected in either the young or old and appeared to be blunted in the young compared to the exercise only trial in the young. CONCLUSION: Based upon these findings, we concluded that oral Arg does not stimulate GH secretion and may impair GH release during resistive exercise.
I thought studies showed l-arginine increased HGH levels?
Thought it was interesting myself, as I was looking for a source of L-arginine to do the opposite
boily 26 Jan 2007
boily 26 Jan 2007
http://blog.xtend-li...nt-warning.html
Sounds like this guy knows what he is talking about??
ajnast4r 26 Jan 2007
def have to look into that
shadowrun 26 Jan 2007
Basically a muscle volumizer mix with arginine powder and a sugary juice mix
I forget the exact recipe but you can find it on a bodybuilding forum
As a byproduct I've also noticed increased blood flow to my nether regions... it fades after a few hours and i'm sure theres a much better supplement for that out there
I heard it was supposed to help you heal after a workout -
but I never experienced any difference
Most of my pre-workout energy I ascribed to my creatine -
Maybe the arginine had some effect
Overall i'd say I thought it was a fun supplement to try but completely unnecessary
*Edit Spelling
Edited by shadowrun, 27 January 2007 - 06:45 AM.
the big b 27 Jan 2007
Shepard 27 Jan 2007
doug123 27 Jan 2007
Amino acids
· Molecular building blocks of protein.
· Given for precursor value, not to supplement protein intake.
· Best taken on an empty stomach.
· L-arginine (1000-2000 mg twice daily)
o Used in treatment of hypertension, coronary artery disease, congestive heart failure (Circulation. 1996. 93. 2135-2141), peripheral vascular disease, erectile dysfunction.
o Precursor of nitric oxide.
o May be dangerous in those on prescription nitroglycerin preparations.
o Theoretically, may exacerbate outbreaks of herpes. However there is data that L-arginine supplementation does NOT affect lysine levels.
o Supplementation may deplete glycine levels.
biknut 27 Jan 2007
I like a brand called NOX3.
aikikai 27 Jan 2007
shadowrun 27 Jan 2007
I think it goes well with other stand alone aminos like Lysine
I took 2 grams at a pop - when I made my at home recipe Nox2 I think I used something like 4-5 grams
I don't know how safe in the long term that high a dose is -
1-2g is safer if you want to make a usual supplement
Personally after a few weeks with arginine - I lost the erection effect
orbital 05 Jul 2007
Despite this, I've seen HGH release formulas at etailers which include both!
Gerald W. Gaston 05 Jul 2007
l-Arginine and l-lysine shouldn't be taken together, though, since they compete for absorption.
Despite this, I've seen HGH release formulas at etailers which include both!
Arginine PyroGlutamate and L-Lysine do not compete though, and that is what you see in most formulas now.
Brainbox 05 Jul 2007
This is interesting. Do you have any refrences?One word of caution about Arginine. If you get a virus like the flu, stop taking Arginine. Arginine to the flu, is like gasoline to a fire.
Thanks.
neogenic 05 Jul 2007
neogenic 05 Jul 2007
platypus 09 Sep 2007
http://www.lef.org/n.../item00188.html
Standard dose contains:
1000mg of vitamin C
100mg of vitamin B6
3000mg of L-Ornithine hydrochloride
500mg of L-tyrosine
dannov 09 Sep 2007
If you're taking L-Arg or L-Arg HCL, you need 10-30g of it. It needs to be taken with Lysine as well, which I have read amplifies the effect by 10x, they work synergistically. This is to be taken when you wake up on an empty, post-workout, pre-sleep on an empty.
L-Arginine Pyroglutamate is far more potent and effective. You need merely a couple grams a day. I managed to coerce a manufacturer to sell me a kilo of it by paying the 35 dollar package breaking fee, came out to 150ish after breaking fee and credit card usage charge. I bought a kilo of Lysine for real cheap. Btw, manufacturer sold:
L-Arg HCL - 18/kilo
L-Arg Pyro - 92/kilo
I had to pay like 105 or something cuz I wasn't ordering 25 kilos or 50 at a time, no biggie. Was real kind of them in fact.
Shipment comes in soon, but research I've done points to Pyro glut and Lysine being the combo to shoot for.
chipdouglas 10 Sep 2007
Arginine pyroglutamate and lysine were shown to increase GH levels (the pre-bed stack). I know I've also seen a study with oral arginine @ 9 grams (don't remember the form) showing an appreciable increase in GH levels.
Doesn't such a dose bring on osmotic diarrhea in some ? I seem to recall reading this.
chipdouglas 10 Sep 2007
Since the above link is on topic, I thought I'd post it here, although I'm sure some of you are already acquainted with the ALCAR+ Ornithine combo.
blackpath 10 Sep 2007
I experimented with doses of L-arginine, arginine free base, and L-ornithine in the early 80's. I got the most substantial anabolic results from the L-arginine / L-ornithine stack of 10g / 2g. I never saw anecdotal evidence of L-lysine helping--I did indeed try adding it. Of course I was in my early 20's and already brimming with HGH--I might notice the difference much more now.
I still include 3g of l-arginine with my morning supplement dose--I notice its knocks off about 5 points of my blood pressure when I take it everyday.
[
QUOTE=dannov]Shepard is on the money, let me explain.
If you're taking L-Arg or L-Arg HCL, you need 10-30g of it. It needs to be taken with Lysine as well, which I have read amplifies the effect by 10x, they work synergistically. This is to be taken when you wake up on an empty, post-workout, pre-sleep on an empty.
L-Arginine Pyroglutamate is far more potent and effective. You need merely a couple grams a day. I managed to coerce a manufacturer to sell me a kilo of it by paying the 35 dollar package breaking fee, came out to 150ish after breaking fee and credit card usage charge. I bought a kilo of Lysine for real cheap. Btw, manufacturer sold:
L-Arg HCL - 18/kilo
L-Arg Pyro - 92/kilo
I had to pay like 105 or something cuz I wasn't ordering 25 kilos or 50 at a time, no biggie. Was real kind of them in fact.
Shipment comes in soon, but research I've done points to Pyro glut and Lysine being the combo to shoot for.[/quote]
dannov 10 Sep 2007
Fascinating about the Pyroglutamate form--I wonder if this gets it past the blood-brain barrier more efficiently?
Bingo, right on the head. :D
Examples of ratios of Pyroglut and Lysine:
1500mg L-Arg Pyr and 750mg L-Lysine
1000mg L-Arg Pyr and 500 mg L-Lysine
So, basically 250mg of L-Lysine for every 500mg of L-Arg Pyro.
ortcloud 13 Sep 2007
mike250 14 Sep 2007
stephen_b 14 Sep 2007
This is interesting. Do you have any refrences?One word of caution about Arginine. If you get a virus like the flu, stop taking Arginine. Arginine to the flu, is like gasoline to a fire.
Thanks.
I found this study
StephenDTH did not differ between diet groups. On d 6 and 31 postchallenge, mitogen-induced proliferation of splenocytes from mice fed the arginine diet was >1.5-fold that of mice fed the control diet (P < 0.05). Body weight and influenza lung viral and serum antibody titers did not differ between diet groups. These data suggest that despite significant enhancement of in vitro mitogen-induced splenocyte proliferation, arginine supplementation does not have a biologically significant effect on antigen-specific in vivo indicators of immune function in this model.