Anabolic steroids
staz 05 Nov 2003
I'll start by asking:
What is specific for anabolic steroids? And what are the difference between legal things like hgh etc, and steroids?
Out of the propaganda I know of, what is actually true and what's not about them? I.e. what are the documented long term effects? Do they induce any permanent harm or damage to the body? etc..
It happens regularly that i bump into people who have used or do use steroids even though they hardly know anything about them. They hear the person whom they look up to at the gym speak well of steroids, and then they start using them themselves with no knowledge whatsoever about them. So I for one would like to expand my spectrum of knowledge regarding these substances.
JonesGuy 06 Nov 2003
There's a website that has excellent beginner information regarding fitness and nutrition. I will admit that some of their information is elementary, and some of it is seemingly uneducated - but I can link some of the more useful articles regarding steroids.
http://www.t-mag.com...rticles/faq.jsp
search for the article "steroids for dummies"
It's not genius, but it's a start.
On the whole, I'd recommend against the use of steroids for a number of reasons. They're illegal. The effects on the brain on not well established (tough to do experiments). They might speed the aging process.
The benefits of steroids are: increased strength. increased muscle potential. reduced potential fat levels.
They are quite different from many of the supplements you see out there - but let me tell you that imho, they are all nearly worthless. Well, they're worthwhile if you're a professional athlete, but even then, intelligent decisions need to be made.
staz 06 Nov 2003
Ironic how it's tough to do experiments, just because of prohibition, while at the same time so many people use it. so instead of being able to make well informed decisions, they make poorly informed decisions, as with every other widely used illegal substance. People use them for the benefits, and due to poor research they don't know of possible long term effects etc.
Perhaps you could tell me what is specific for steroids though?
Jace Tropic 06 Nov 2003
Steroid & Drug Profiles
Steroid University
ACSM Certification and Registry Programs (Apparently, there still must be a sound cognitive context to make intellectual connections on the subject of anabolic steroids. It surprised me, too.)
“Illegal” doesn’t translate into colossal difficulty in obtaining information and products.
Jace
Edited by Jace Tropic, 18 February 2004 - 11:24 PM.
shpongled 06 Nov 2003
Out of the propaganda I know of, what is actually true and what's not about them? I.e. what are the documented long term effects? Do they induce any permanent harm or damage to the body? etc..
There are a very large number of anabolic steroids. Some have documented long term effects, at certain doses and durations, and some don't (although they undoubtedly would, if further research was done). Same goes with permanent damage. Just like any drug they can be used irresponsibly or with relative safety. Using them responsibly involves researching them and willingness to accept the consequences of use.
It happens regularly that i bump into people who have used or do use steroids even though they hardly know anything about them. they hear the person whom they look up to at the gym speak well of steroids, and then they start using them themselves with no knowledge whatsoever about them. So I for one would like to expand my spectrum of knowledge regarding these substances.
What sort of information are you looking for, exactly? Some of the links posted above provide information (except T-Mag - please do not take anything you read there seriously), there are also some good internet forums and many horrible ones. Here are two of the good ones:
Cutting Edge Muscle
Avant Labs
staz 25 Nov 2003
Would HGH be recommendable for cutting procedures? (reducing bodyfat without losing muscle -or atleast, losing as little muscle as possible)
Jace Tropic 25 Nov 2003
The short answers:
HGH. GH stimulates growth in skeletal muscle tissue with the exception of eyes, brain, and all other organs. This is primarily due to increases in cell number rather than size. The transport of amino acids and protein synthesis also increases. GH also stimulates triglyceride hydrolysis in adipose tissue (fat), which usually produces notable fat loss during treatment. The most predominantly discussed side effect would be acromegaly, or a noticeable thickening of the bones (viz. the feet, forehead, hands, jaw and elbows).staz: What's the difference between HGH and steroids?
HGH treatments should be completely halted if there are any noticeable changes in bone structure, skin texture or normal health and well being during use. It is usually only the competitive athletes who use this, and if they do they generally choose to use steroids before “complementing” them with HGH. Furthermore, if you don’t want to spend 75-150 USD per day just on effective dosages, you probably needn’t worry about it.
Steroids. Anabolic steroids are a class of medications that contain a synthetically manufactured form of the hormone testosterone, or a related compound that is derived from, or similar in structure and action to, this hormone. A further discussion requires a detailed explanation on testosterone and a background in chemistry to understand the way it is manipulated for commercial purposes.
If you are wondering about its effectiveness, it has good and bad properties. These generally rise in significance together. The long and short of it, if you are really interested just on good information you will sooner or later need to spend some cash and use your knocker to put everything together and keep up with the details.
As already subtly indicated, an adequate answer to this question requires a physical profile and the extent of your goals. Good things are relatively easy to accomplish without it through sound nutrition and exercise. One of the main principles for altering body composition is to experiment with target heart rates, durations, and frequencies of aerobic work while sustaining a normal weight-lifting program—since you indicate you don’t want to lose muscle. Another main principle is paying attention to your nutritional needs. A good start is to avoid high-processed foods and simple carbohydrates as much as possible (except for those instances when you’d probably use some fancy technique to rapidly assimilate certain supplements at certain times). Ratios in terms of calories should amount to about 20 percent fat, 40 percent carbohydrate, and 40 percent protein. Allow these components to vary according to response.staz: Would HGH be recommendable for cutting procedures?
Edited by Jace Tropic, 21 December 2003 - 09:18 AM.
staz 25 Nov 2003
Experimenting with heart rate would be something that would take plenty of time though, several months I suppose. Personally I'm just after an effective way of reducing body fat without losing muscle and without having to bother about counting calories and dedication consuming things .. I am aware of that nutrition and exercise are the key parts, but I'm also aware of that certain supplements may help to get the 'job' done quicker.
Jace Tropic 25 Nov 2003
Step 1: 220 – age = Maximum Heart Rate (approx.)
Step 2: MHR(0.70) = Target Heart Rate
To illustrate, if you are 20 years old, your MHR would be approximately 200 beats per minute. 70 percent of 200 is 140 which should most likely be a good starting target heart rate if you’re a relatively normal person. (You may have heard of other methods of calculating THR such as the “Karvonen Formula,” but there really isn’t any need for high science in this area unless you have some physical problems.) A range that is beneficial and is considered “aerobic” for most individuals is 50 to 75 percent. The duration should be at least 20 minutes per day (preferably you should work up to 30 minutes and it can be divided into two 15-minute sessions with about the same net effect), and the frequency five or more days a week.
You indicate that you may not be able to fit everything in your agenda. Depending on your current body composition, you still may not need any supplements specifically for fat loss. You say that you don’t want to lose muscle. This sounds to me that you think you are already paying your dues with the weights. If this is the case, 15 minutes on, say, a treadmill before lifting and 15 minutes on a step mill afterward could be something to consider without drastically stressing your schedule. Many people are able to figure out how to lift more efficiently and cut 15 minutes from that segment of training alone; therefore, you’d only be adding 15 minutes to an entire session. In regards to counting calories, time-wise it gets easier after a couple of weeks.
staz 25 Nov 2003
If a supplement like twinlabs ripped fuel, (caffeine , ephedrine etc) is to be added to such a routine, when should it be added in that case? from the start or later on (if needed)?
Also the 20/40/40 I thought was for healthy diet in general, or perhaps muscle gain.. I'm under the impression that carbos and fat should be reduced when cutting? or should they perhaps just be exchanged for protein?
I've also heard that doing some aerobic training before eating when waking up is alot more effective than doing it after having eaten, as the body will burn more fat having no nutrition to get energy from.
Also, after aerobic training I get extremely hungry, if I have a big meal after then that pretty much removes the point of the training in general, should eating be avoided then? I guess ephedrines effect of suppressing appetite could come in quite handy in that case.
Jace Tropic 26 Nov 2003
You would actually be moving toward aerobic work by doing more reps with less weight. The general principle here: when doing aerobic work, you should focus on aerobic work; when doing anaerobic work, you should focus on anaerobic work. I think most men respond best by keeping their reps between 6 and 12—depending on exercise, muscle group, mood, etc.staz: I've heard that training without breaks between sets and doing more reps with less weights is an efficient routine for cutting as well, do you have any opinions on that?
One of the best methods for being efficient when weight training is to superset with two different muscle groups. Ideally each of the two muscle groups shouldn’t be part of the compound movement of the other muscle group; and, also, they should not be so far apart that blood is being pulled too far from a "pumped" muscle group. Here are some of the better example pairs: gluteus and calves, thighs and abs, hips and hams, chest and bis, lats and tris, anterior/middle delts and upper trapezius, posterior delts and lower trapezius.
It should be taken about 45 minutes before training unless it says otherwise. Keep in mind that your heart may pump a little faster without necessarily doing as much work. Therefore, take it for the purpose of feeling more alert and energetic as an excuse to perform better, not do less. Get your blood pressure examined regularly to make sure that you stay normal, because if you are not normal this kind of supplement can be dangerous.staz: If a supplement like twinlabs ripped fuel, (caffeine , ephedrine etc) is to be added to such a routine, when should it be added in that case? from the start or later on (if needed)?
This ratio is actually a bias toward what I’m assuming are your goals. My full-fledged bias would have had you taking in a little more fat and carbs, and a little less protein. You will likely over-train if you take in any less carbohydrate. If your body composition is not doing what you want it to do, eat less keeping these ratios and either raise aerobic intensity level, increase the daily duration of aerobic activity, or increase aerobic frequency.staz: Also the 20/40/40 I thought was for healthy diet in general, or perhaps muscle gain.. I'm under the impression that carbos and fat should be reduced when cutting? or should they perhaps just be exchanged for protein?
It has a marginal effect. I would recommend this only if you (a) plan on only doing aerobic work in the morning or (b) if you don’t have enough time to fit in a meal an hour before morning training. If you must break either of these rules, doing your entire training session mid-morning or later on in the day is likely better unless you are the type who feels energized after an early-morning session. People respond differently; just note what’s usually best.staz: I've also heard that doing some aerobic training before eating when waking up is alot more effective than doing it after having eaten, as the body will burn more fat having no nutrition to get energy from.
No, eating should not be avoided. If you are incorporating supplemental techniques such as glutamine/creatine/protein, drink your shake about 15 minutes after training—not any sooner. Sip the drink such that it takes you about 15 minutes to consume it all. Eat 15 minutes after you finish the drink (45 minutes after training). This balances the facts that (a) you shouldn’t consume anything immediately after training because it draws blood into the mid-section whereas blood should still be allowed to satiate the trained areas for the time being and that (b) you shouldn’t wait too long because of the generally undesirable “negative nitrogen balance.”staz: Also, after aerobic training I get extremely hungry, if I have a big meal after then that pretty much removes the point of the training in general, should eating be avoided then? I guess ephedrines effect of suppressing appetite could come in quite handy in that case.
To make sure that you are not eating too much, each meal should be about even in quantity except for the after-training meal which should be slightly more. You should also be eating smaller, five to eight total meals a day.
In regards to trying to suppress appetite, think about it this way. There are probably some aspects of training where you may need assistance with supplements since will power alone may not be sufficient. There are other aspects where all you need is will power. Try to determine where will power should hypothetically work and where it won’t. Where it should work, don’t take supplements.
staz 26 Nov 2003
being unemployed at the moment, I wouldn't really say i live a super healthy life .. I seldom eat more than twice a day + a protein shake after trainings.. I'm not sure if I should change anything specific in my diet.. I eat junk pretty often, many burgers on party nights etc, but atleast I don't endulge in fries. So obviously cutting down on the quick carb foods can be done, and as soon as I have a job I'll get and hopefully maintain more reasonable eating habits, now It's usually a small meal when I wake up.. a very big meal an hour before training, and a shake 15-70 mins after training.. I notice now that I should not take it any later nor earlier than 15 mins.. sometimes I have a smaller meal before going to bed as well.. and i must admit that counting calories and counting intake in percent is something I'm the last person to ever do.. I might try it, but I have never felt comfortable with things that add tiring routines to my allready tired mind,, are there any simple tips to obtain a diet which is atleast probable to 'land' near those percentages? tips such as what typical foods to avoid, what foods to consume and so on?
Your guidance has been greatly appreciated
I've gathered plenty of useful tips and had some conceptions confirmed and some misconceptions cleared out. I'll soon set them into practice.
oh and one more question, how do i get my blood pressure examined? is there any cheap tool for it so that i can do it myself? in case i give ephedrine a shot.
Jace Tropic 26 Nov 2003
Yes, I can imagine how setting up the appropriate program could be nearly impossible without the right funds. But you need to eat anyway. I would just concentrate on trying to eat some healthy foods. In this kind situation, go to Wal-Mart, get some Riceland brown rice, some Great Value mixed vegetables, Great Value chicken breast (boneless, skinless), canola oil, and a food scale. And if I’m thinking this correctly, you’ll probably be using more canola oil in your rice water than it recommends using in order to reach the fat quota.staz: … and as soon as I have a job I'll get and hopefully maintain more reasonable eating habits…
Excluding the food scale, which is a one-time purchase, and the supplements, the daily price probably comes to about 4.00 USD. This is less than a value meal at Wendy’s. Using the ratios, start off by consuming 1200 calories daily and try eating more meals—at least four. Actually, because you are eating healthier food and probably less fat than you normally would, there is more mass to this 1200 kcal than there would be with 1200 kcal of junk food. Also, you don’t know how your body will respond to the change since it is somewhat drastic; therefore, it is to your benefit not to worry so much about quantity for at least the first few days.
This meal plan, of course, is not perfect. They do get a little more complicated, but when they do it’s still not high science. With this plan you are probably consuming about five different food items over a longer period of time (four from what I mentioned plus the protein you were talking about). Ideally you should be consuming between 15 to 25 food items. In the beginning stages, however, it doesn’t matter much anyway, and it’s certainly still much healthier than eating 25 different food items among Taco Hell, Burger King, and Sonic.
I highly doubt that. This would actually be a good time to start. Can you calculate ratios (a/b = c/x, {a,b,c} are given, find x)? Do you have paper and a pencil? It actually just flows once you sit down and purposefully begin figuring things out. And if it doesn't, you may simply have to wait a little while until you feel a little better and are able to commit a little more effort. Sometimes even when people discover how to do something and sort of have more of a defined goal in sight, it may still take days or even weeks to build themselves up to it and actually begin. Allow yourself to accept that this is perfectly normal and okay, and just come back to it at a future time.staz: … i must admit that counting calories and counting intake in percent is something I'm the last person to ever do.
There are blood pressure monitors you can buy for around 40 USD. However, I would highly recommend having someone at the club do it with the more reliable sphygmomanometer and stethoscope. They should check it for you for free, and they’ll be able to tell you if you are normal.staz: oh and one more question, how do i get my blood pressure examined? is there any cheap tool for it so that i can do it myself? in case i give ephedrine a shot.
staz 26 Nov 2003
We don't have wal marts and taco bells in sweden, but i see your point I eat plenty of fish, chicken and vegetables, fry/cook with olive oil usually, it's just that I don't have a good eating scedule right now, I actually don't consider the junkfood a big issue, but I can see cutting down on it helpful when I want to cut.. at 3 o clock at night or whatever, i get hungry and I can't go cooking really, as family are asleep, then I just go out for some food, and what's open in the middle of the night does not provide too many choices .. so the problem is pretty much as i mentioned, my upside down 24hour period, which I will shortly sort out .
It's fun discussing with you and taking part of your advice, allthough I was initially just after some advice on cutting you've given me alot more.. so many credits go out to you
edit: damn, thats one hell lot of smilies , what happens when I type in a happy mood.
Ontime 02 Jan 2004
www.cuttingedgemuscle.com is an EXCELLENT resource for intelligent discussion and research, I have been a member there for a long time.There are a very large number of anabolic steroids. Some have documented long term effects, at certain doses and durations, and some don't (although they undoubtedly would, if further research was done). Same goes with permanent damage. Just like any drug they can be used irresponsibly or with relative safety. Using them responsibly involves researching them and willingness to accept the consequences of use.
What sort of information are you looking for, exactly? Some of the links posted above provide information (except T-Mag - please do not take anything you read there seriously), there are also some good internet forums and many horrible ones. Here are two of the good ones:
Cutting Edge Muscle
Avant Labs