LONGECITY

Given that alternate day fasting provides benefits similar to caloric restriction, and given that methionine restriction provides benefits similar to caloric restriction, would alternate day methionine restriction provide similar benefits to caloric restriction?

That would mean that an alternate day vegan diet would be good for life extension and health in general, since vegan diets are low in methionine.

This seems almost too simple, but perhaps it's worth exploring.

What do you all think?
Edited by smithx, 20 January 2010 - 05:25 AM.

I think Michael said that IF does not provide similar benefit as CR unless the eating days in IF is also calorie restricted. Also, I haven't read an article saying the benefits of MR is similar to CR. What I read was that it could be MR that's making CR benefits possible.

Vegan diet is not automatically "good for life extension and health in general" (tofu, vegan cakes, ice cream, ramen noodles, taters, lots of processed food, cooked food, gmo products, etc) and not always "low in methionine". (brazil nuts, grains) So when someone says she's vegan, she could be living off ramen noodles and pepsi.

Raw Vegan diet on the other hand is a truly God-sent to life extensionists as it fixes many of the problems in a regular vegan diet. First, Raw Vegan eliminates all grains which achieves the low-methionine goal, takes off all processed food, yes including tofu, prepacked food, frozen food, cooked food which lowers your AGE intake, baked goods and all other vegan crap in the supermarket. Raw Vegan diet is also all organic, all natural plant based diet.

So my diet is CR, raw vegan. Give it a try, in just 6 months, you'll look 10 years younger.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for NUTRITION to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

That would mean that an alternate day vegan diet would be good for life extension and health in general, since vegan diets are low in methionine.

this is basically my diet. i eat a vegan diet, maybe cheat and have a slice of cheese or something. still get lot of protein from beans/whey.

then every other day or 3rd day, i eat some fish/chicken along w/ my existing diet.

...Raw Vegan eliminates all grains which achieves the low-methionine goal, takes off all processed food, yes including tofu, prepacked food, frozen food, cooked food which lowers your AGE intake, baked goods and all other vegan crap in the supermarket. Raw Vegan diet is also all organic, all natural plant based diet.

So my diet is CR, raw vegan. Give it a try, in just 6 months, you'll look 10 years younger.

This is basically my diet, too. I eat a lot of raw vegetables, have limited my fruit consumption to mainly berries, I've upped my saturated fat by consuming more raw young coconuts, young coconut meat, coconut oil, more avocados, and a variety of nuts. I eat no grain, nothing processed, no bread or anything prepackaged, I drink no fluids beyond water, green tea, white tea, coconut water, and maybe a few times a year some wine or beer. My protein is cooked quinoa and lentils. I fast one to two days a week, and when fasting, I limit activity -- just lay around, do nothing, meditate, sleep, laugh at stuff -- give my body a break from the city. I don't know if any of this lifestyle behavior is shown to "extend life" or not, but it sure feels like a series of good habits to me. I'm still on the fence regarding fish, however.

Is it possible to eat anything other than specially methionine depleted protein shakes and still achieve low enough methionine consumption to make a difference?
Also, this is interesting: Amino-acid imbalance explains extension of lifespan by dietary restriction in Drosophila

Is it possible to eat anything other than specially methionine depleted protein shakes and still achieve low enough methionine consumption to make a difference?
Also, this is interesting: Amino-acid imbalance explains extension of lifespan by dietary restriction in Drosophila

I was hoping that a normal vegan diet (ie: lentil soup, etc.) would suffice.

Where does one get methionine depleted shakes? And what else would one eat with them for calories/bulk?

lol vegans who eat meat.

yeah, i'm a virgin and i enjoy sex too.

lol vegans who eat meat.

yeah, i'm a virgin and i enjoy sex too.

That's not helpful to the discussion.

The point is not to become a vegan, but to get life extension benefits through diet.

I don't want to become a vegan, but if avoiding methionine-rich foods on alternate days is useful for health, I would do that.

Vegans tend to get inadequate quantities of some nutrients, such as omega-3 fatty acids (flaxseed oil doesn't cut it compared to fish oil) and vitamin B-12.

So it could be that avoiding all animal protein sources on alternate days is useful to health, regardless of any 'vegan ideology'.

low levels of methionine for a long enough period may cause dmyelination in the CNS..... Sure, when b12 deficiency is associated with demyelination, it is because b12 is a cofactor in methionine production, and methionine being in short supply may be the cause of it..........

low levels of methionine for a long enough period may cause dmyelination in the CNS..... Sure, when b12 deficiency is associated with demyelination, it is because b12 is a cofactor in methionine production, and methionine being in short supply may be the cause of it..........

But alternate day methionine restriction is not likely to result in a long-term overall low level of methionine.

lol vegans who eat meat.

yeah, i'm a virgin and i enjoy sex too.

That's not helpful to the discussion.

The point is not to become a vegan, but to get life extension benefits through diet.

I don't want to become a vegan, but if avoiding methionine-rich foods on alternate days is useful for health, I would do that.

Vegans tend to get inadequate quantities of some nutrients, such as omega-3 fatty acids (flaxseed oil doesn't cut it compared to fish oil) and vitamin B-12.

So it could be that avoiding all animal protein sources on alternate days is useful to health, regardless of any 'vegan ideology'.

all in jest.

there are no vegans here. and no virgins either.

Hypertension. 2009 Jun;53(6):909-11. Epub 2009 Apr 27.


Taurine: red bull or red herring?
Wesseling S, Koeners MP, Joles JA.

Comment on:

• Hypertension. 2009 Jun;53(6):1017-22.

PMID: 19398654 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Free Article

...Direct effects of taurine on its own metabolic pathway have not been described. However, taurine inhibits methionine uptake in intestinal Caco-2 cells.⁹ This inhibitory effect occurs because taurine and methionine share the B^0,+ transporter. This may explain why the high plasma methionine levels induced by dietary methionine in the rabbits studied by Zulli et al⁸ were initially reduced by dietary taurine. Because this inhibitory effect occurs on the apical side of the intestine, this could occur without an increase in plasma taurine. Indeed, dietary taurine had practically no effect on plasma taurine levels. Furthermore, after 4 weeks of dietary cholesterol plus methionine (and taurine), plasma levels of methionine and homocysteine had normalized, suggesting that, by the end of the experimental period, methionine uptake was completely inhibited by taurine.

How does one determine the amount consumed by the rabbits?


[9]
Hypertension. 2009 Jun;53(6):1017-22. Epub 2009 Apr 27.
High dietary taurine reduces apoptosis and atherosclerosis in the left main coronary artery: association with reduced CCAAT/enhancer binding protein homologous protein and total plasma homocysteine but not lipidemia.
Zulli A, Lau E, Wijaya BP, Jin X, Sutarga K, Schwartz GD, Learmont J, Wookey PJ, Zinellu A, Carru C, Hare DL.

Departments of Cardiology, University of Melbourne, Austin Health, Heidelberg, Australia. azulli@unimelb.edu.au

The Zulli A. paper cited states

 

 

"Rabbits were fed one of the following diets for 4 weeks: (1) control diet; (2) 0.5% cholesterol+1.0% methionine; or (3) 0.5% cholesterol+1.0% methionine+2.5% taurine...............................................................................................................................................

Taurine normalized hyperhomocysteinemia (P<0.05) and significantly reduced hypermethioninemia (P<0.05) but not lipidemia."

 

 

I speculate that since Taurine blocks Methionine uptake from the intestine, any dietary Taurine will reduce serum Methione by some amount.Taking Taurine before or with meals should result in a MR diet.

 

Beta-Alanine blocks Taurine uptake from the intestine. I wonder if Beta-Alanine also blocks Methionine or if taken with Taurine together they might potentiate the effect since the " inhibitory effect occurs on the apical side of the intestine".

 

Red Bull and steak anyone?

 

 

Edited by Monkey_Boy, 22 March 2015 - 02:02 AM.

This paper & Valter Longo's Fasting Mimicking Diet (essentially a low protein, low calorie fast) should revive this/similar threads.  I finally got around to reading it.  It was in the same issue of Cell w/ Sinclair's NMN/H2S Angiogenesis paper.  Anyone practicing protein/calorie restriction, should probably give this a quick read.  It's interesting.   Amino Acid Restriction Triggers Angiogenesis via GCN2/ATF4 Regulation of VEGF and H2S Production.

 

The beauty of a low-fat vegan diet is that it naturally restricts calories and protein, providing the benefits of CR/PR without ever suffering from the pains of hunger.

The Zulli A. paper cited states

 

 

"Rabbits were fed one of the following diets for 4 weeks: (1) control diet; (2) 0.5% cholesterol+1.0% methionine; or (3) 0.5% cholesterol+1.0% methionine+2.5% taurine...............................................................................................................................................

Taurine normalized hyperhomocysteinemia (P<0.05) and significantly reduced hypermethioninemia (P<0.05) but not lipidemia."

 

 

I speculate that since Taurine blocks Methionine uptake from the intestine, any dietary Taurine will reduce serum Methione by some amount.Taking Taurine before or with meals should result in a MR diet.

 

Beta-Alanine blocks Taurine uptake from the intestine. I wonder if Beta-Alanine also blocks Methionine or if taken with Taurine together they might potentiate the effect since the " inhibitory effect occurs on the apical side of the intestine".

 

Red Bull and steak anyone?

 

Quite interesting. It reminds me of this report of a study on dogs I saw. The raw meat fed dogs had lower plasma methionine and homocystein than the kibble fed dogs.

 

https://www.facebook...55176513292028/
 

After further thought,

Taurine has several health benefits of its own.

Beta Alanine has not many added benefits and blocks the beneficial Taurine.

So, I've dropped the idea of adding Beta Alanine to block Methionine and am using Taurine alone.

 

Taurine powder clears the intestine hours quicker than a protein, so I've been taking the Taurine in divided doses.

Any thoughts or research on timing the food and supplement while digesting.

So, I've dropped the idea of adding Beta Alanine to block Methionine and am using Taurine alone.

 

 

 

Glycine would be the preferred amino acid for methionine (AdoMet) clearance.

Longo's longevity diet or whatever healthy plant-based diet with protein around the 0.8 g/kg/d RDA should grant methionine 'restriction' (in the sense of methionine moderation, defined as an amount which should avoid an excess of systemic IGF-1 and other growth factors).

 

Animal sources of protein as a whole turn out to carry about twice as methionine as plant-based proteins, plus it is easier to eat more protein if animal based, because they tend to be more concentrated. Besides, they are probably more bioavailable. Final result, it's hard to moderate methionine in an omnivorous diet.

 

I posted some comparative analyses in the CR society forum

 

https://www.crsociet...mal/#entry29071