Would you be willing to fight to the death
eternaltraveler 02 Oct 2004
thoughts?
lightowl 02 Oct 2004
The hole patriotism and nationalism thing is in my opinion total BS. So is holy ground and sacred land. Places are only special because we invest in them. We build structures and connections that are permanent only through our dependency of those. But it seems that special feelings towards places is being explained by the connection to our ancestors, which has absolutely zero value to me. Why should I defend a place because my ancestors did? This world gives me other choices.
Yes, I hear you say, but you cant run forever. And you are right. I cant run forever NOW, but I might in the future and I do have another choice. I can always join the enemy. And believe me, I would if my life depended on it. Now, that might sound a bit selfish, but you have the same choice. Why should I defend you with my life when you have the same choices as I. All I need is my technology to function, and I know there are people who thinks the same way. So they can come with me if they like.
Now, there is of course fights that can be won without the risk of death. It is not like I would just run if some lame ant-farm attacked me, right. It would take a hell of a lot of ants to kill me. The same I would say with other minor enemies. Yes, the risk of death is a constantly dynamic value.
So, what does all this have to do with fighting for the right to, or possession of immortality? Well... What I guess I am saying is. You almost always have a choice when the "war" is for your life. When that choice has to be made, your feelings goes out the window. And so does your "life" as in possessions, friends, family, job, country, knowledge, passion, power, certainty and anything you might think is worth your existence. It is not.
IMO.
Kalepha 02 Oct 2004
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Kalepha 03 Oct 2004
Edited by Nate Barna, 17 January 2005 - 10:45 PM.
lightowl 03 Oct 2004
Are there things worth dying for?
That is a good question. I have thought about that for a long time but nothing has yet come to mind. In my opinion everything is random. There is no meaning to life other than staying alive.
The strongest reason to die for is so far, in others opinion, ones family. But what is it exactly you are dying for when you protect your family? In the earliest human stages it was a matter of life and death to have a family to protect everybody. So in that sense you would actually protect your own life when fighting for a family members life. ( both adult and child ) But that time has long gone. A person can reject ones family and still have a good chance to live in this world of ours. Then some say: but you are fighting for the next generation of your family. Well.. Yes, but how much does that really matter in this world of 2 billion plus families. And how much is the memory of you actually worth? Pretty damn little if you ask me.
My second reason, and probably the one I would sign up to is if earth was attacked by some entity. That is, a direct attack on humanity it self. Total species annihilation. But in that case I would still be fighting for my own life. So that does not really count, does it? We all still depend on everybody else. However indirectly.
The question really is: What unselfish death would you suffer?
I have not found one yet. Well... I guess I'm pretty selfish. But bare in mind that selfishness in not always a bad thing. I still have the urge to help humanity on the grounds that by doing so, I am helping my self. If I help others, they are more likely to help me... and so on...
The main reason I think people fight to the death is pride and instinct. Which are probably the same thing.
eternaltraveler 04 Oct 2004
In my opinion everything is random. There is no meaning to life other than staying alive.
I would die for those that I love, and for IDEAS that I love. I would die for something greater than myself.
It is for this reason that I am worthy of immortality. To live forever for no other reason than to sustain my existence; this seems ludicrous to me.
No, I would not fight because a superpower says so unless it just so happened that I agreed with what the cause was. Is this likely? No. But in a World War II type scenario, you bet your ass. Good against evil.
And no, this is not instinct or pride. My life has a very high value, but there are things with a higher value that I would spend it on.
It seems to me if this were not the case there would be very little worth living for.
lightowl 04 Oct 2004
What is to me frustrating, is that the future seems endlessly impossible to predict when one can only imagine it from this limited base of knowledge. The only thing that matters is to have some kind of existence. Everything else can be recorded, collected and recreated with total accuracy with time.
I don't need a fixed value on my life. It is hard to find a currency that is universal. Especially in an accelerating technological timeline. I am happy with what I can get with time, if I can just live. Whatever living is.
Infernity 17 Jan 2005
It may sound egoistic, but hey, if I'll die, it won't have any difference (well at least not to me)!
I will happily help others to get the immortality, but not if that is including the price of my very own life!
~Infernity
123456 17 Jan 2005
-Such question reveals the will and determination of an individual.
Mind 17 Jan 2005
So it boils down to this, if the odds of dying by not taking the pill are greater than the odds of fighting then I would fight.
quadclops 01 Feb 2005
Are there things worth dying for?
I think the only thing that I might consider worth risking certain death for would be the survival of the entire human species. Remember that movie in the 90's with the kid who played Frodo, about a comet or something that was about to hit the Earth? A shuttle load of astronauts goes up to deflect it and ends up splitting it in two. The smaller peice hit's the Earth and nearly ends civilization, but the larger peice, which is a Planet Killer, is still on the way. All looks doomed, but at the last second the astronauts come up with a plan whereby they can save the Earth, but at the certain cost of their own lives via atomic bomb.
I'd like to think I could make the sacrifice, if there was absolutley no other way. Course I'd probably need a serious change of underpants while I was doing it. [lol]
psudoname 22 May 2005
As to what I would do in that case it depends on who was trying to stop immortality. If it is religous extreamists or another group working illegally then the police should do most of the fighting. If the UK bans transhumanism, I will leave and move somewhere with more respect for freedom.
I would be prepared to risk my own life to get immortality (though as I have said this isn't really a risk) and to defend the lives of my loved ones, but not to defend my country.
mnosal 22 May 2005
If a government or Religious zealot was standing between us and immortality and my death could change that I would surely lose my own to save millions.(although that altruism could just be residue from my military brainwashed days:))
apocalypse 28 Jul 2005
Survival in this world is a constant struggle, a fight for life. Those who do not fight give up, and give in to the death meme, in to slavery, in to dependence.
To trascend the limitations, to acquire the power to withstand the very ravages of time, may very well require that one gives up one's humanity in the process. Would one slowly fade, slowly die in order to be reborn into something more? Even if one's goals, one's dreams, one's hopes no longer resembled anything one could've ever imagined?
It is that a young man may dream in this world, but as he develops and he acquires the power to do so, he may no longer desire that which he initially seeked. Would one so stare into the abyss, and embrace the darkness in order to leave one's mortality behind?
knite 28 Jul 2005
This is admirable, I would like to think that I would do the same, but this is one of those things you can never be sure youll make the right decision until you are in the situation.I would fight to the death for my Children. If the reality of IMMORTALITY(ie the drug or medical process) is not directly in front of me, their genetic code is the only chance for my immortality.
If a government or Religious zealot was standing between us and immortality and my death could change that I would surely lose my own to save millions.(although that altruism could just be residue from my military brainwashed days:))
THere are many ways to fight, I for one would build up a company(no matter what it took.) and buy an island and manufacture it there. Easy as pie, screw a government that wants its people to die, ill make sure whoever wants it gets it.
psudoname 29 Jul 2005
THere are many ways to fight, I for one would build up a company(no matter what it took.) and buy an island and manufacture it there. Easy as pie, screw a government that wants its people to die, ill make sure whoever wants it gets it.
Sounds like a good idear. What would your company do?
I would fight to the death to stop myself dying.
alpha_omega 26 Aug 2005
Are there things worth dying for?
me answer would be no, cos when your dead, everyone else is as good as dead to you, you wont see them again or remember them, as you would be dead and unable think, and things like your country are not worth dying for, as countries are just land ruled by a certain person or goverment, would you die for your house or your garden?
Infernity 26 Aug 2005
I wonder what would you do.
-Infernity
emerson 26 Aug 2005
I for one would build up a company(no matter what it took.) and buy an island and manufacture it there. Easy as pie, screw a government that wants its people to die, ill make sure whoever wants it gets it.
Not so easy. Any large country could blow you out of the water pretty easily. A labratory on an uncharted desert island somewhere? You're obviously an evil drug manufacuter, ready to get "the kids" hooked on whatever boogyman is currently being played on the US news. Their army's sent in, you're killed while "resisting arrest". Then the people you were trying to help let out a big cheer. Some people realize what's going on, but lose interest once another runaway bride sweeps the nation.
I'd say a better way is to sell yourself out to another large government, assuming you could find one sympathetic to your cause. Or at least one hungry to be on the edge of the next scientific revolution. You'd have to worry about them stabbing you in the back of course, but it's better than trying to play with the wolves armed only with your fists.
johngdonnelly 07 Sep 2005
Preventing one from living the full duration of life is the same as murder.
Yes, it is. Abortion is murder, and im glad you agree. Id have been totally pissed off if i had been murdered by my own mother because she couldn't be arsed looking after me.
werty8472 13 Sep 2005
biknut 22 Feb 2006
dale 03 Apr 2006
immortality would be made to prevent death not to encourage it. if other people were willing to fight to the death to stop immortality then obviously they havent advanced far enough to respect life and almost dont deserve eternal life. but in the end you cant deny them it or else you would become the them in the process.
Brainbox 03 Apr 2006
Note that this is already happening and that existing limitations are being increased by governmental organisations.
See for a critical view on codex and EU regulatory threats the website of the Alliance for Natural Heath.
I do not have the time right now to read all the contributions to this thread, I will do that later.
Edit: It seems this (to) quick reaction is a bit out of place here. Anyway, it may have it's uses.....
Edited by brainbox, 03 April 2006 - 10:07 PM.
Dream 23 Jul 2006
After that, I would focus on maintaining my immortal status, using whatever means I could. I would have to get a bit smarter and much wealthier to ensure that I remained immortal if a major world government decided that it was going to hunt me down and make me mortal (or dead). Quality of life is an issue here. I might have to learn to enjoy living in a constant state of paranoia.
AdamDavis 23 Jul 2006
Athanasios 23 Jul 2006
Are there things worth dying for?
I would have to quote gandhi on this one. "For this cause I am willing to die, but there is no cause so great, that I would be willing to kill".
P.S. In the other thread, I would kill one to save 5, if all else was the same. Or if you prefer, save 5 over the one.
Edited by cnorwood19, 23 July 2006 - 07:27 PM.