LONGECITY

http://www.dailymail...ouse-trial.html

Wowie Zowie!

It's an interesting report. Mice with progeria, which normally die in about 3 weeks, live for about 9 weeks after stem cell injections. That doesn't mean that people will live for 300 years. There must be some sort of paracrine signaling going on, as progeric cells placed near, but not touching the young stem cells in culture reverted to a more youthful form. This sounds like it's related to the experiments where the circulatory systems of old mice are surgically attached to those of young mice, producing profound improvement in the older animals. What's that stuff?

There must be some sort of paracrine signaling going on, as progeric cells placed near, but not touching the young stem cells in culture reverted to a more youthful form.

Yea, but they said also systemic, and that probably means some sort of stem cell niche rejuvenation. Now if administration of transcription factors alone were to suffice... good idea for the next imminst multi.

Has anyone read the original article. Those of in the UK will know that the Daily Mail has "We're all going to live forever" stories twice a week, alternating with "x causes cancer" stories and they are usually not a reliable source of information. One study found a very high percentage of their stories were actually factually wrong ( I don't recall the % but it was high......Ben Goldacre of the Bad Science column and books ) and some stories actually reversed the findings of the research they purported to report.
Edited by johnross47, 04 January 2012 - 09:32 PM.

I agree niner, this really feels like something similar to the young mouse-old mouse-blood linking experiment, which brings to mind this thought: I wonder why nobody has tried the blood linking in humans? If the people are the same blood type would it work? I suppose it would seem a bit "creepy" in the popular culture, but it would seem to be an experiment that could produce an explosion of data and theory into the aging process.

As far as the stem cell niche goes, is anyone building a comprehensive data base of the growth/transcription/signalling factors that lead to rejuvenation of the niche and various adult stem cells?
Edited by Mind, 04 January 2012 - 10:08 PM.

Has anyone read the original article. Those of in the UK will know that the Daily Mail has "We're all going to live forever" stories twice a week, alternating with "x causes cancer" stories and they are usually not a reliable source of information. One study found a very high percentage of their stories were actually factually wrong ( I don't recall the % but it was high......Ben Goldacre of the Bad Science column and books ) and some stories actually reversed the findings of the research they purported to report.

In this Sciencedaily article they say the information comes from the journal Nature Communications

Has anyone read the original article. Those of in the UK will know that the Daily Mail has "We're all going to live forever" stories twice a week, alternating with "x causes cancer" stories and they are usually not a reliable source of information.

Yes, and I usually end up getting distracted by pictures of scantily clad women when someone posts a link to the Mail. Anyway, here's the actual paper. Free full text! In my previous post, I neglected to mention that normal healthy mice live for a couple years; I think 900 days is considered good.

I agree niner, this really feels like something similar to the young mouse-old mouse-blood linking experiment, which brings to mind this thought: I wonder why nobody has tried the blood linking in humans? If the people are the same blood type would it work? I suppose it would seem a bit "creepy" in the popular culture, but it would seem to be an experiment that could produce an explosion of data and theory into the aging process

True but as the younger animal seems to suffer from accelerated aging from the treatment, would you allow your child to be used for such an experiment, I wouldn't .

I agree niner, this really feels like something similar to the young mouse-old mouse-blood linking experiment, which brings to mind this thought: I wonder why nobody has tried the blood linking in humans? If the people are the same blood type would it work? I suppose it would seem a bit "creepy" in the popular culture, but it would seem to be an experiment that could produce an explosion of data and theory into the aging process

True but as the younger animal seems to suffer from accelerated aging from the treatment, would you allow your child to be used for such an experiment, I wouldn't .

I wasn't aware of the fact that the younger member of the experiment is known to experience accelerated aging. In that case, perhaps the young blood could be banked and a shorter term experiment could be conducted.

I have read the original paper (thanks niner) the newspaper article and science daily article and agree that these treatments could help children with progeria and if that was their aim that's great. But really until such research is repeated on normally aging animals we don't have much more than we did before.

Having said that, it does provide for an interesting future regeneration experiment, removing senescent cells then infusing young stem cells,
In a normal but old animal. That would teach us something useful and maybe obtain the robust mouse rejuvenation Aubrey talks about, also it appears such an experiment could provide results in the next couple of years. If only we could readily identify normal senescent cells.

Mind, you could be right.

Cord blood or maybe the new artificial blood we've recently heard about would do the trick.

Nah, too simple.

Life's not like that.

Certainly not artificial blood, unless we could figure out exactly what the magic ingredients are. Cord blood is loaded with stem cells and all manner of things. It would probably be beneficial. What if we got transfusions of blood from young donors? It seems like that ought to work, though it might require a massive quantity. In the growing '-omics' universe, the study of small bioactive molecules in biological fluids is called metabolomics. The metabolome of human blood has undoubtedly been characterized in both young and old subjects, so they could be compared.

Not that big a deal. "That tells us that stem cell dysfunction is a cause of the changes we see with aging." - Dr. Niedernhofer said.
It just confirms what has been known for some time already.

Certainly not artificial blood, unless we could figure out exactly what the magic ingredients are. Cord blood is loaded with stem cells and all manner of things. It would probably be beneficial. What if we got transfusions of blood from young donors? It seems like that ought to work, though it might require a massive quantity. In the growing '-omics' universe, the study of small bioactive molecules in biological fluids is called metabolomics. The metabolome of human blood has undoubtedly been characterized in both young and old subjects, so they could be compared.

Just to not lose the idea brought up in this thread, another experiment using "young blood" to rejuvenate myelin sheaths in old rats. How much would it cost to run an experiment transfusing banked "young blood" into an older human. Is it possible? Would it be worthwhile?

Reminds me, in some ways, of this article about the mouse foetus sending stem cells back to the mother to repair heart cells, following a heart attack:
http://www.bionews.o...page_113106.asp

OK, this may look like a rant but.....

First, British newspapers are Superior to US newspapers. Why? They offer a measure of hope and the same sort of inspiration that those old issues of Popular Mechanics and Popular Science used to do. It was called Visionary Science. It made guys study Calculus so they could build Moon Rockets ( to get the girls found on page three!). This sense of inspiration is exactly why I avoid Scientific American and read the New Scientist instead.

And reporting anti-aging news? On prominent pages? You mean the pages absorbed by news about Kardashians or useless Republicrats personal failings in US newspapers? The pages devoted to whatever worthless personality the Elite have decided to emphasize over and above what's really important? Like life extension? I'm not naive - British newspapers and magazines can be loaded with junk but at least they report SOMETHING uplifting and visionary above the dead hand of US media bulk fill.
OK, rant over.......

C'mon eightman, we're talking about The Mail here! I love New Scientist, but you're kinda lumping all US media together here. Take a look at the New York Times. Didn't the Brits invent the tabloid?

British newspapers freely reported Bill Clinton's improper relationships with women - and that Miss Arkansas was threatened with having her legs broken - while US papers avoided all of it.

I work with TV reporters and I know how superficial the media is. Let me add that far too many solid reports about supplements and inexpensive therapies come from Britain - and sometimes Europe rather than the US. Tabloids aren't all bad if they at least spend some time on speculative science rather than 'cheesecake' and useless celebrities exclusively, which seems to be the case here.

Banking young blood? Transfusions? Something to learn here?

Why wait for experiments in humans? If it works in mice it's almost bound to work in humans (fallacious statement I know). How about let's do our own experiment and get a few members of the Longecity community to buy younger blood of the same blood type and transfuse it into their bodies. Those same people could then buy some stem cells and inject themselves every so often and presto a perfect anti aging regimen! I bet there are people out there actually doing this. Most people buy supplements and other crap when they could be using real stuff that actually works.

Why wait for experiments in humans? If it works in mice it's almost bound to work in humans (fallacious statement I know). How about let's do our own experiment and get a few members of the Longecity community to buy younger blood of the same blood type and transfuse it into their bodies. Those same people could then buy some stem cells and inject themselves every so often and presto a perfect anti aging regimen! I bet there are people out there actually doing this. Most people buy supplements and other crap when they could be using real stuff that actually works.

I am just trying to get some information. I just want to know from more knowledgeable people here, whether or not this experiment would be possible or useful? Transfusions happen all the time. It seems "on the surface" that this would be safe, but perhaps longer term (weeks or months) mingling of blood might have some undesired side effects. Maybe a primate study would be in order.

the best would be to contact Tony Wyss Coray, the lead researcher who published in Nature in september about young and old serum factrs in mice, in terms of cognition in particular. he mentionned that old persons regurlarly receive young transfusions (obviously), some of whom have mild memory impairments (obviously). so the experiment is somehow already being done currently everyday at a large level, except that it is not being assessed. perhaps he has contacts who are on this. perhaps helping to get such a logistic / statistical study done with some hospital/health authorities/the right persons (I don't know) could be the project of a small LongeCiTeam
Edited by AgeVivo, 10 January 2012 - 09:52 PM.

Why wait for experiments in humans? If it works in mice it's almost bound to work in humans (fallacious statement I know). How about let's do our own experiment and get a few members of the Longecity community to buy younger blood of the same blood type and transfuse it into their bodies. Those same people could then buy some stem cells and inject themselves every so often and presto a perfect anti aging regimen! I bet there are people out there actually doing this. Most people buy supplements and other crap when they could be using real stuff that actually works.

Sounds like an acitivity I'd gladly engage in after some years haha..
No, really, many questions here.. we need to get the answers.

This study shows that super-natant from human embryonic stem cells along with old stem cells provides a much better growth of muscle fibers. So the environment in which your stem cells function is critically important in whether stem cells differentiate into the repair tissues or not. Something in the super-natant is providing the correct local environment to stimulate the growth. See the pic of "Old cells + hESC sup" vs the young cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21666284
Edited by scottknl, 11 January 2012 - 01:32 AM.

It has to be some sort of soluble factor. Small molecule? Oligonucleotide? Protein? Carbohydrate? With the sort of separation and analytical technology that we have available today, you'd think that it wouldn't be that hard to pin down the factors involved. I'd expect it to be more than one factor. It reminds me of induced pluripotent stem cells. That trick was done with four genetic factors, and was later reduced to three, I think it was. People are now looking for small molecules that could replace the genetic factors there. Ultimately, we'd like to be able to come up with a synthetic stem cell environment.

Meanwhile, we need to place an ad on Craigslist looking for the blood of children. Someone should fire off an email to ToV. Sounds like it's right up their alley.

Meanwhile, we need to place an ad on Craigslist looking for the blood of children. Someone should fire off an email to ToV. Sounds like it's right up their alley.

<br>Haha, right. And i was wondering why no one was willing to get down to talk science with the folks here. Or did we overdo on the garlic?

OK, this may look like a rant but.....

First, British newspapers are Superior to US newspapers. Why? They offer a measure of hope and the same sort of inspiration that those old issues of Popular Mechanics and Popular Science used to do. It was called Visionary Science. It made guys study Calculus so they could build Moon Rockets ( to get the girls found on page three!). This sense of inspiration is exactly why I avoid Scientific American and read the New Scientist instead.

And reporting anti-aging news? On prominent pages? You mean the pages absorbed by news about Kardashians or useless Republicrats personal failings in US newspapers? The pages devoted to whatever worthless personality the Elite have decided to emphasize over and above what's really important? Like life extension? I'm not naive - British newspapers and magazines can be loaded with junk but at least they report SOMETHING uplifting and visionary above the dead hand of US media bulk fill.
OK, rant over.......

I really have to disagree strongly with this. Particularly when talking about The Daily Mail, which is about as reputable as the National Enquirer. Seriously, it's a tabloid newspaper or would be considered one here in the US anyway. It's hardly alone either; British newsstands are overflowing with such garbage. The most worrying thing though is that there doesn't seem to be quite as stark a line of differentiation between those and real newspapers. Even the more legitimate ones are likely to run a cover story on the latest scandal with the royals or some such nonsense. In contrast, you aren't ever going to see Kim Kardashian on the cover of the New York Times or Washington Post.

Meanwhile, we need to place an ad on Craigslist looking for the blood of children. Someone should fire off an email to ToV. Sounds like it's right up their alley.

<br>Haha, right. And i was wondering why no one was willing to get down to talk science with the folks here. Or did we overdo on the garlic?

I would definitely expect this type of "Vampire" reaction from the general public, if such a research project was undertaken, but let me be clear here, I am describing a single exploratory experiment to help find and define the crucial growth factors that are present in "young" serum and to illuminate any possible lifespan extension mechanisms. This would NOT be a mass program of buying young blood for "medical" rejuvenation of old people. Once the growth factors are identified, we would obviously just create them in a lab.

I don't know what would be the best and quickest way to get this type of information, I just know that the parabiotic mouse experiments have been dramatic.

Kevin makes a comment about this here as well.
Edited by Mind, 11 January 2012 - 08:24 PM.

I am a bit sceptical that the periodical blood transfer will work for making someone's life longer. However, I think, that a blood linking experiment in humans can be done. There are people, who want to be blood donors for money. You must have a volunteer, who is the same blood groups like the donor(s), and everything else is a question of law. The law in Bulgaria allows experiments with humans. So, periodical blood infusions can be done, under medical control in Bulgaria.