Why would Vyvanse increase my depression?
dasikins 17 Feb 2013
Concerta just made me sleepy and ineffective at really any dose. Vyvanse helps keep me alert and helps with my concentration, but really makes me anti-social and depressed (especially at night.) When I take the weekend off I feel an increased sadness.
Why is this? Are there other meds that might be better? Has any one else experienced this?
I suffer from severe fatigue and finally after10 years am doing something about it. Until my MLST and MS testing are completed I need some help staying awake too. I am only adding this, because the stims not only help with my ADHD, but help keep me alert.
I am not interested in nootropics.
Thanks!
nupi 17 Feb 2013
Edited by nupi, 17 February 2013 - 07:12 PM.
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dasikins 17 Feb 2013
jadamgo 18 Feb 2013
The current theory about how it does this is that dextroamphetamine depletes dopamine (and possibly norepinephrine) far more effectively than cocaine or methylphenidate because unlike those drugs, amphetamines literally force dopamine out of the synaptic vesicles and into the neuronal cytoplasm. From the cytoplasm, they then force dopamine out into the synapse, and block it from re-entering. You don't want a lot of dopamine in the cytoplasm because it harms the brain cells, and because they're damaged, they take a long time to recover and return to normal functioning. Days, not hours.
Moderate doses of MPH (and, if I'm being honest, cocaine) don't cause this sort of short-term brain damage, and so their rebound effects are naturally far milder. Some people don't get any rebound at all from low-to-moderate doses of MPH.
How do you get around this? You can lower the dose of Vyvanse, you could try Adderall XR, you could try Focalin XR (which is more energetic than Concerta), or you could try Provigil (modafinil). Provigil in particular was designed to treat fatigue, but it was later found to be somewhat effective for improving concentration if you're fatigued, sleep deprived, or if you have any form of ADHD or Sluggish Cognitive Tempo. The only warning I'll give you about Provigil is that most docs start you out at a high dose, and many people here on this forum have found that it works far better if you start at 50mg per day or 100mg per day, because this lower dose still works very well, and does not cause you to build up a tolerance.
You said you aren't interested in nootropics, so I won't bore you with talk of stimulating racetams. But since the CILTEP stack isn't actually a nootropic, I certainly will suggest you check it out. It was designed to improve memory, but in most people it actually combats fatigue and improves awakeness more than anything else. It makes you feel energetic all day, sort of like Provigil but with fewer of the classic stimulant side effects like emotional/personality changes and tolerance buildup.
It's really inexpensive too -- I got my first month's supply for $20 from Amazon, and the next few months will each only cost $8. What you do is buy NOW brand Artichoke Extract, and some source of Forskolin. (I prefer NOW Diet Support, which is completely ineffective as a diet pill but makes a great source of forskolin for the CILTEP stack.) You take one forskolin pill in the morning, along with 1-2 artichoke capsules. Then you take another 1-2 artichoke capsules in the afternoon to keep you feeling awake and energetic through the evening. You have to be careful though, if you take too much artichoke too late in the day then you'll have trouble falling asleep.
Edited by jadamgo, 18 February 2013 - 05:12 PM.
dasikins 18 Feb 2013
I really appreciate you taking the time to write this. Do you have any idea WHY it impacts some people, but not others. I know a lot of people who are able to take stims without this type of symptom.
I even took two days off of Vyvanse and starting it again today the positive effects were barely noticeable. I wish I knew WTF was wrong with me. I am miserably fatigued and until I can resolve the issues I am hesitant to find another job (we just relocated due to my fiances job so I have had some time to really look into everything.)
IDK if I have SCT-My ADHD may just be a result of another illness. Any dosage I have tried with Vyvanse produces subpar results. Even at 40 mg the crash is better, but after five days it's pretty harsh. Plus I don't get the additional help in fatigue symptoms. Overlapping has helped, but I don't think it's a long term solution.
I am just rambling because I am worried I will never feel better. Maybe I will look into the nootropics, but how are they any different than medicine? They might be more natural, but they are still manufactured. I am an ChE in manufacturing plants and without guidelines and restrictions that makes me incredibly leery of sanitation practices, ect.
jadamgo 19 Feb 2013
Do you have any idea WHY it impacts some people, but not others. I know a lot of people who are able to take stims without this type of symptom.
I even took two days off of Vyvanse and starting it again today the positive effects were barely noticeable. I wish I knew WTF was wrong with me. I am miserably fatigued and until I can resolve the issues I am hesitant to find another job (we just relocated due to my fiances job so I have had some time to really look into everything.)
IDK if I have SCT-My ADHD may just be a result of another illness. Any dosage I have tried with Vyvanse produces subpar results. Even at 40 mg the crash is better, but after five days it's pretty harsh. Plus I don't get the additional help in fatigue symptoms. Overlapping has helped, but I don't think it's a long term solution.
I am just rambling because I am worried I will never feel better. Maybe I will look into the nootropics, but how are they any different than medicine? They might be more natural, but they are still manufactured. I am an ChE in manufacturing plants and without guidelines and restrictions that makes me incredibly leery of sanitation practices, ect.
It's hard to tell; everyone's brain is unique. Genetic factors probably play a large role in this, and dosage is also very important. The benefits of a drug like Vyvanse are subject to diminishing returns as you increase the dosage, but the side effects aren't constrained at all. They increase drastically as dosage escalates.
I don't know whether or not you have ADHD, but there's definitely something else going on there. Fatigue is obviously not a symptom of the disorder whose name includes "hyperactivity." SCT might be a better diagnosis, but if I were your doctor, I'd follow the best-practice for not overdiagnosing ADHD (or SCT) which is: Always rule out endocrine, neurological, and other psychiatric conditions before you call it ADHD!
There are lots of reasons people might have trouble concentrating. Fatigue itself is a huge barrier to concentration, no matter what the cause is: sleep apnea, insomnia, circadian rhythm disorders, generalized anxiety disorder, any of the mood disorders, chronic fatigue syndrome, even thyroid or adrenal imbalance.
I think if ADHD or SCT was your only problem, the Vyvanse would be working better. If I were you, I'd make it a high priority to find out what other problem is going on that's causing the fatigue, and actually fix that problem instead of relying on Vyvanse to help you power through it. Also, seriously look into the CILTEP stack as a way of managing the fatigue until you can find an actual cure. I'm not sure nootropics are the first place you should look for help, though perhaps pramiracetam could help with the fatigue and concentration trouble. For now.
Edited by jadamgo, 19 February 2013 - 06:42 PM.
dasikins 19 Feb 2013
Do you have any idea WHY it impacts some people, but not others. I know a lot of people who are able to take stims without this type of symptom.
I even took two days off of Vyvanse and starting it again today the positive effects were barely noticeable. I wish I knew WTF was wrong with me. I am miserably fatigued and until I can resolve the issues I am hesitant to find another job (we just relocated due to my fiances job so I have had some time to really look into everything.)
IDK if I have SCT-My ADHD may just be a result of another illness. Any dosage I have tried with Vyvanse produces subpar results. Even at 40 mg the crash is better, but after five days it's pretty harsh. Plus I don't get the additional help in fatigue symptoms. Overlapping has helped, but I don't think it's a long term solution.
I am just rambling because I am worried I will never feel better. Maybe I will look into the nootropics, but how are they any different than medicine? They might be more natural, but they are still manufactured. I am an ChE in manufacturing plants and without guidelines and restrictions that makes me incredibly leery of sanitation practices, ect.
It's hard to tell; everyone's brain is unique. Genetic factors probably play a large role in this, and dosage is also very important. The benefits of a drug like Vyvanse are subject to diminishing returns as you increase the dosage, but the side effects aren't constrained at all. They increase drastically as dosage escalates.
I don't know whether or not you have ADHD, but there's definitely something else going on there. Fatigue is obviously not a symptom of the disorder whose name includes "hyperactivity." SCT might be a better diagnosis, but if I were your doctor, I'd follow the best-practice for not overdiagnosing ADHD (or SCT) which is: Always rule out endocrine, neurological, and other psychiatric conditions before you call it ADHD!
There are lots of reasons people might have trouble concentrating. Fatigue itself is a huge barrier to concentration, no matter what the cause is: sleep apnea, insomnia, circadian rhythm disorders, generalized anxiety disorder, any of the mood disorders, chronic fatigue syndrome, even thyroid or adrenal imbalance.
I think if ADHD or SCT was your only problem, the Vyvanse would be working better. If I were you, I'd make it a high priority to find out what other problem is going on that's causing the fatigue, and actually fix that problem instead of relying on Vyvanse to help you power through it. Also, seriously look into the CILTEP stack as a way of managing the fatigue until you can find an actual cure. I'm not sure nootropics are the first place you should look for help, though perhaps pramiracetam could help with the fatigue and concentration trouble. For now.
Yah I am. I have seen a sleep specialist, rheumatologist, Endocrinologist, GI, Gyn, Psych, and more to come. It's very difficult for people to take you seriously though. I have no other major symptoms as well.
siva140 28 May 2013
Underside active view. Increased limbic activity
Underside active view. Increased limbic activity
Underside active view. Marked increased limbic, basal ganglia and cingulate activity
Limbic ADD, with symptoms of inattention and/or hyperactivity-impulsivity and negativity, depression, sleep problems, low energy, low self-esteem, social isolation, decreased motivation and irritability. Brain SPECT imaging typically shows increased central limbic system activity and decreased prefrontal cortex activity. This Limbic ADD subtype typically responds best to stimulating antidepressants such as buprion or imipramine, or venlafaxine if obsessive symptoms are present.
socialpiranha 29 May 2013
Modafinil could help with staying awake and alert, also mildronate and cerebrolysin are worth looking into.
I just started taking npep-12(orally active cerebrolysin) and mexidol for similar symptoms, i could let you know how it turns out if you want
I used to do a lot of coke and just got over an opiate addiction, dexedrine is the only other thing that made me feel semi normal and able to function like a normal human. Amphetamines are amphetamines though and its just another road to addiction and failure so i dont use it anymore.
Doktor 29 May 2013
Here is the thing with Vyvanse (I take Vyvanse, and it is the best thing since sliced bread for my ADD as well as depressive moods):
1. People don't drink enough water on it.
2. People don't eat enough food on it.
Vyvanse can kill your appetite, and also the focus it provides can often destract you from essential bodily needs. Now, I am not saying that you for sure have this problem, but I myself was very depressed, anxious, frusterated, etc when I was not keeping up on my hydration and nutrients. Vyvanse burns through water and food VERY fast, and it is very important you eat regular healthy meals on it while regularly consuming water (more then 8 glasses a day). I also hear that you should increase the daily percentage of carbs and protein you consume on it (from healthy sources!).
When I started keeping this in check, Vyvanse did a full 180 on me and now it seriously is incredibly therapeutic for me.
I also added magnesium citrate to it to help with agitation and muscle tension. Magnesium worked incredibly well for me; honestly comparable in efficiacy to clonazepam in my case - likely indicating I must have been very deficient in it to begin with.
Good luck!
socialpiranha 29 May 2013
Raptor87 29 May 2013
arjacent 01 Jun 2013
socialpiranha 01 Jun 2013
socialpiranha 01 Jun 2013
nowayout 01 Jun 2013
Edited by nowayout, 01 June 2013 - 08:57 PM.