Bad fish oil worsens lipid numbers
nameless 02 Jan 2014
Effect of omega-3 dietary supplements with different oxidation levels in the lipidic profile of women: a randomized controlled trial.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23863036
Also found a more detailed article here:
http://suppversity.b...indices-is.html
The study was a bit oddly designed, as the base diet included a lot of fish, but I still found it interesting.I recall that there was a rancid fish oil study done a year or two ago, showing not much in the way of short-term harm, at least in regard to body oxidation numbers. But the above study does sort of demonstrate that it's not the best idea to consume bad fish oil. And by bad, it just means fish oil with higher than ideal peroxide numbers... stuff we probably can find on many store shelves.
So for those getting cheap fish oil without antioxidants, or consuming bottled fish oil (faster oxidation), perhaps you may wish to switch to something else. Fish oil with high peroxide numbers could possibly be a reason for some conflicting study results done on a number of fish oils, and the fact that in some cases, fish oil increases lipid numbers.
Edited by nameless, 02 January 2014 - 10:40 PM.
(unnamed member) 03 Jan 2014
Anonymous poster hash: d9d65...5cd
timar 03 Jan 2014
This company based in Norway supposedly makes a fish oil in drinkable cartons that has a proprietary formula that prevents oxidation. Anybody have any thoughts on what they are putting in there to prevent oxidation? Is this something we could do ourselves?
Why do you think that they put in some magic ingredient? They probably use tocopherols, like most other companies do. Tocopherols are highly effective in preventing lipid peroxidation. The fish oil capsules from Nature's Best I take have a shelf life of 3 years from production. I usually store the capsules in the freezer, but I intentionally left some stored at room temperature for two years. I opened one capsule and it smelled pritistine, without any trace of rancidity. They are conserved with alpha-Tocopherol only. Seems sufficient for quality capsules.
Edited by timar, 03 January 2014 - 12:00 PM.
nameless 03 Jan 2014
The annoying thing about some fish oils is that even good ones can sometimes be 'fishy', even when opening a brand new bottle. I recall both LEF and Jarrow oils being unusually fishy when I tried them, yet they do include antioxidants. Or perhaps I was just unlucky and got a bad batch.
trance 03 Jan 2014
MrSpud 04 Jan 2014
One company that made DHA from algae did a study of many different antioxidants and antioxidant blends and the thing that worked the best was a mixture of Tenox GT-2 and ascorbyl palmitate. You have to liquify the ascorbyl palmitate by melting it into another more stable oil, but then you add it and the Tenox GT-2 in small amounts to the Omega 3 oil. Blanketing with an inert gas during any mixing and handling of the omega 3 oil before and during encapsulation is essential. Nitrogen is the most common, but the Algae DHA company claimed that others were even better. I vaguely remember them saying argon worked the best (but I'm not 100% sure it was argon but I think it was). Something about nitrogen, although heavier than air, still was light enough that a little bit of air inevitably gets mixed in sooner or later.
Lovaza was really hard to work with. Not only did they not add any antioxidants, they also stripped out some natural antioxidants that are inherently present in less processed fish oil. They couldn't change the formula to add antioxidants because it would cause it to violate its new drug application filing. They couldn't even open the drums it was shipped in to take a sample to do qc testing without ruining it so they had the have the raw material manufacturer include pre shipment samples. The drums and samples were shipped under nitrogen. The tubing to the encapsulation machine had to be prepurged with nitrogen and everything had to be heavily nitrogen blanketed during encapsulation, much more so than regular fish oil that has a few mg of d-alpha tocopherol or mixed tocopherols in it. It would be easy to mess up and get accidental exposure to air. If they moved the encapsulation to other companies than where it was first developed, I wouldn't be surprised it they didn't stick to the same strict level of caution.
Edited by MrSpud, 04 January 2014 - 04:26 AM.
timar 04 Jan 2014
Regarding Lovaza, why would the addition of an antioxidant violate drug laws? I can't help, but if I read that it contains no antioxidants at all, my paranoid self gets hold of me and I think that this way it seems designed to fail...
nameless 04 Jan 2014
And interesting about Lovaza ... I would guess it's a weird FDA thing where once approved, they can't change anything at all about a formulation without having to redo the entire FDA approval thing? I would think that in the initial design of the drug (or fish oil formulation), however, couldn't they have just included antioxidants? The first thing that scared me about Lovaza was how drugstores handled it. Local pharmacists were fine with open bottles, keeping at room temperatures, and simply treating them like any other pill... and shipping during the summer, via hot UPS trucks for a week or more.
Edited by nameless, 04 January 2014 - 07:25 PM.
MrSpud 04 Jan 2014
MrSpud 05 Jan 2014
nameless 05 Jan 2014
One of the other weird things about Lovaza (back when they were Omacor) I remember seeing was hydrogenated vegetable oils as part of its ingredient list. It'd seem like a odd thing to purposely include.
MrSpud 05 Jan 2014
eon 23 Apr 2015
I have Lovaza. The instructions stated to take it on a low fat diet so I wonder since I'm on a ketogenic diet (high fat adequate protein low carb), would Lovaza be a contradiction? It wasn't prescribed to me to lower triglyceride but for ADHD. I have the generic form of Lovaza from TEVA. I called them up to find out what the half life is of Lovaza since I can't find it online. What would be your guess as to what the half life is of an omega-3?
Reason why I need to know is because I was also prescribed a beta blocker called Inderal (take as needed) and from what I understand Lovaza is not supposed to be taken with a beta blocker. So if I take each one 12 hours apart is that OK?
Edited by eon, 23 April 2015 - 08:31 PM.
OneScrewLoose 28 Apr 2015
Fish Oil is the only thing I buy in stores like Costco and Trader Joe's. The higher turnover assures that it is fresh.
eon 29 Apr 2015
from what my psychiatrist told me, who prescribed me Lovaza, I think he said the reason why it raises bad cholesterol is because it raises the good ones as well? Somewhere along that line. If anyone can explain better or what's the science behind this?
It lowers triglycerides is what Lovaza is really for, but I asked for it for ADHD reasons plus the psychiatrist is saying it is a mood stabilizer for bipolar as well (I'm not bi polar) but I can say is that Lovaza does stabilize moods more like a sedative actually.
OneScrewLoose 29 Apr 2015
eon 30 Apr 2015
Hmm no. I should have been clearer. I was prescribed Lovaza as well as Vyvanse. I asked for Lovaza. At that time I didn't know much about it other than "prescription fish oil" which it really isn't plus I didn't know about the other "prescription fish oil" Vascepa. Allegedly the "better" one which I also just asked for. Oh and if you look at drugs.com Lovaza is prescribed for ADHD as well. It's a mood stabilizer but I don't think it's a focus enhancer.
So you want to your psychiatrist seeking treatment for ADHD and he prescribed Lovaza?
Edited by eon, 30 April 2015 - 06:52 AM.
blood 30 Apr 2015
http://www.nature.co.../srep07928.html
Fish oil supplements in New Zealand are highly oxidised and do not meet label content of n-3 PUFA
Scientific Reports 5, Article number: 7928 doi:10.1038/srep07928
We evaluated the quality and content of fish oil supplements in New Zealand. All encapsulated fish oil supplements marketed in New Zealand were eligible for inclusion. Fatty acid content was measured by gas chromatography. Peroxide values (PV) and anisidine values (AV) were measured, and total oxidation values (Totox) calculated. Only 3 of 32 fish oil supplements contained quantities of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) that were equal or higher than labelled content, with most products tested (69%) containing <67%. The vast majority of supplements exceeded recommended levels of oxidation markers. 83% products exceeded the recommended PV levels, 25% exceeded AV thresholds, and 50% exceeded recommended Totox levels. Only 8% met the international recommendations, not exceeding any of these indices. Almost all fish oil supplements available in the New Zealand market contain concentrations of EPA and DHA considerably lower than claimed by labels. Importantly, the majority of supplements tested exceeded the recommended indices of oxidative markers. Surprisingly, best-before date, cost, country of origin, and exclusivity were all poor markers of supplement quality.
OneScrewLoose 30 Apr 2015
I can't find a single study even evaluating if it helps ADHD or acts as a mood stabilizer (btw, mood stabilizer doesn't just mean it evens out your mood. It refers to a specific class of medication that treats bipolar and sometimes refers to medications that treat Borderline Personality Disorder. You feeling more even-keeled after taken it means nothing in regard to it being a 'mood stabilzer'), much less a study with conclusions. There's is evidence that Omega 3s can help some people with ADHD, and some people with Bipolar, but this tends to be a very small subset of those with these disorders. I have no reason to believe the Lovaza would be any different in this regard or any more effective than Omega 3s for these two conditions.
Here's what's I see on PubMed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ed/?term=lovaza
Everything in regards to ADHD appears to be anecdotal.
eon 30 Apr 2015
Regardless of anything whether or not it stabilizes mood with "study" backing it up, I feel OK on it. Have you personally tried Lovaza? Also, I think in the link you provided, see that number 7 seem to have a mention of Lovaza and mood.
OneScrewLoose 30 Apr 2015
If you feel better on it, I don't see a reason to stop taking (unless it's really expensive). Even if it were completely placebo, that is still a real effect that's working.
I do like to shoot higher than 'okay' though, especially with ADHD.
Edited by OneScrewLoose, 30 April 2015 - 10:52 AM.
eon 07 May 2015
There was a time when everyone praised DHA, but now it seems as if EPA is the more potent of the omega-3s. I'm not sure if the sudden shift has to do with pharmaceutical competitions (Lovaza (DHA/EPA) vs. Vascepa (just EPA), etc.). But below is an article praising EPA for all the right reasons of course:
Omega-3 may help depression caused by certain types of inflammation
In a study published in the journal Molecular Psychiatry, researchers found that the omega-3 fatty acid EPA (eicosapentataenoic acid) appears to boost mood in a subgroup of patients with major depressive disorder (MDD) who have high inflammation levels.
http://medicalxpress...flammation.html
I've tried Lovaza and I'm waiting to see if my insurance would cover Vascepa. If not, does anyone here know of an OTC EPA only supplement?
Edited by eon, 07 May 2015 - 10:43 AM.
OneScrewLoose 07 May 2015
I would first ask for studies that show conclusively that EPA and DHA are not only antagonistic, but so much so where the dose of one of them is completely nullified by the other. Otherwise, EPA and DHA only Omega-3 Oils are simply not worth their huge price.
eon 07 May 2015
but those prescription "fish oils"" aren't your average fish oils or EPA/DHA. They are ethy esthers, etc.
OneScrewLoose 07 May 2015
I was simply talking about OTC supplements are EPA or DHA only, and are wildly expensive, often 10x the cost per dose of the regular Omega3s. IMO, it's a scam.
I definitely need to take a look at those presciption versions though. It's very fascinated. I've just been doing so much research since I started posting here again that I don't have time for it all. I was I could just inject PubMed into my brain, matrix style.
Edited by OneScrewLoose, 07 May 2015 - 08:36 PM.
eon 07 May 2015
Hmm i'd need to look into OTC EPA, I had a DHA only supplement. I don't know why for just EPA or just DHA (this is not too expensive) OTC would be more expensive than having both together? I would assume because it's a different process to separate both from each other and I would assume it's easier to have both together as is which is why EPA and DHA separately would be more expensive.
Edited by eon, 07 May 2015 - 09:24 PM.
nameless 11 May 2015
Hmm i'd need to look into OTC EPA, I had a DHA only supplement. I don't know why for just EPA or just DHA (this is not too expensive) OTC would be more expensive than having both together? I would assume because it's a different process to separate both from each other and I would assume it's easier to have both together as is which is why EPA and DHA separately would be more expensive.
Marketing reasons, as stated already, I expect.
It's been ages since I looked at fish oil stuff (or have even been active on this board), but I do seem to recall depression studies zeroing in at around 1000 mg EPA being the sweet spot for helping with depression. DHA muted this affect, so basically whatever you use, EPA should be around 1000 mg higher than the DHA you are taking.
Of course it's been so long since I looked at any studies, perhaps they have all been debunked by now... no idea. Look at pubmed and see what you can turn up.
As for prescription vs OTC, only reason to go prescription (in my opinion) is if your insurance fully covers it and you are having a problem finding an affordable (and good brand) EPA only supplement. The ethyl ester thing is meaningless, as many OTC brands are ethyl ester too. I know Nordic Naturals makes a decent EPA only product but I expect it's rather pricey.
Edited by nameless, 11 May 2015 - 02:18 AM.
nameless 11 May 2015
Study from earlier this year:
http://www.nature.co.../srep07928.html
That is something I think most folks here should take a look at. Thanks for posting it. It doesn't just apply to fish oil manufactured in New Zealand/Australia either.
Personally I stopped taking fish oil a while ago and instead just try to eat a little more fish (of course then mercury could be an issue).
eon 11 May 2015
Edited by eon, 11 May 2015 - 03:44 AM.