LONGECITY

I have MAOI induced insomnia, currently taking Moclobemide. But i like this drug too much to stop taking it, and was wondering if there's a decent method to fall asleep, without it affecting me into the next day with grogginess etc.

Melatonin is alittle too weak to help, I considered Agomelatine but it makes me abit irritable/aggressive.

Thanks for any ideas.

Not necessarily a sleep aid, but a great drug to dampen excess CNS stimulation from e.g. stimulants or MAOIs, is Pregabalin (brand name Lyrica). Some people find it cognitively dulling, but this really depends and has to be tested for each individual. Baclofen is also good for this purposes, but comes with a much shorter half life. In my experience it's also not as powerful as Pregabalin, but has a milder side effects profile.

Both drugs can be taken long term as compared to the classical hypnotics which should only be taken for several weeks at most to prevent tolerance and addiction.

Lyrica can be pretty addictive and tolerance sets in after 2 days. Most rapid tolerance drug I've ever used. Baclofen risks you becoming dependent and having withdrawals similiar to Phenibut. If used sparingly I"m sure they'd be fine. Trazadone is one of the best sleep aid's i've used. You'd have to check for interactions though. I know it acts on serotonin and is used as an anti depressant but wow does it knock you out. Dosing low keeps morning grogginess away for me. Some wake up fully refreshed some groggy.

 

High dose or concentration Valerian can help but only sparingly due to tolerance. Ashwagandha is another one. Those two herbs used to knock me out but it seems I've build a perma tolerance and no longer get the sleep benefits from them.

 

Are you getting exercise. I notice I become an insomniac when I'm not exercising at all. I realize yours is induced by the MAOI but getting extra exercise daily should help. Does taking the MAOI at different times make any difference? What MAOI are you taking?

Lyrica can be pretty addictive and tolerance sets in after 2 days. Most rapid tolerance drug I've ever used. Baclofen risks you becoming dependent and having withdrawals similiar to Phenibut. If used sparingly I"m sure they'd be fine. Trazadone is one of the best sleep aid's i've used. You'd have to check for interactions though. I know it acts on serotonin and is used as an anti depressant but wow does it knock you out. Dosing low keeps morning grogginess away for me. Some wake up fully refreshed some groggy.

 

 

Lyrica has a low abuse potential. Very unlikely that you will get addicted to it. Tolerance can be an issue, though, but it's certainly not normal to have tolerance set it after only two days. I've used Lyrica for many weeks and never had to increase my dosage. As with most other things, the degree and onset of tolerance is a highly individual thing.

Baclofen, on the other hand, is known for having very little tolerance issues. Most people seem to use it without ever having to increase the dosage. From my personal experience I can attest to that. And as with Lyrica, is has a very low abuse potential.

I'm currently finding great relief from 10mg Memantine IR and 450mg of elemental magnesium from mag citrate.

This combo is not by any means sedative. It seems to make me naturally sleepy and in the mornings I wake up easily. And what's most important for me is increased deep sleep. Before even if I could fall asleep I didn't get any deep sleep. I used a sleep tracking app on my phone and was shocked to find that I kept twisting and turning every couple of minutes whole night through. Now when I fall asleep I sleep peacefully.
Also I think Memantine is changing something on subconscious level. When I dream I dream like I used to dream many years ago. Plotlines instead of random fragments that make no sense whatsoever.

I don't know where you heard that Lyrica isn't addictive but anything that has benzo like qualities and makes you feel good from is addictive. There are many addicted to abusing Lyrica. It is much more addictive than neurontin. They say neurontin isn't addictive but once again something that relieves anxiety and makes you feel good is going to cause a person to continue to take it depending on how good it makes them feel and how bad they feel before they are taking it. Someone that is using it for say insomnia is going to come to rely on it because it feels nice where as something that just knocks you out but doesn't cause any boost in mood wouldn't be addictive. Baclofen def has low abuse potential but you run the risk of withdrawal if taking daily though supposedly it can be taken for longer periods than something like Phenibut without getting withdrawals.

I don't think it makes much sense arguing about the abuse potential of Lyrica. It has a low abuse potential and it shouldn't be a concern when prescribing it. That's probably the last thing on the mind of any medical professional who is prescribing it. Lyrica has anything but benzo like qualities. It has a completely GABA non related mechanism of action and the anxiolysis it provides feels entirely different. Of course, if you go to bluelight or some other drugs related forum you will always find some morons abusing the shit out of Lyrica. But when compared to Benzos, the amount of abuse stories is negliably small and that even though Lyrica is prescribed in tons all over the world.

Saying that any anxiolytic drug has abuse potential also isn't true. SSRIs for instance are also powerful anxiolytics, yet they are widely considered to have no abuse potential.

 

I don't think it's wise to scare the OP away from Lyrica because of a very remote possibility of abusing it.

soil based probiotic (prescript, probiotic-3) and resistant starch 

Try glycine:

http://www.holisticp...-healthy-sleep-

 

Glycine, a naturally-occurring non-essential amino acid, is a new addition to the spectrum of non-pharmaceutical options for people with disordered sleep, especially those prone to waking up in the middle of the night. In high concentrations, it promotes the prolongation of stage 3-4 sleep in the first sleep cycle and prevents sleep fragmentation, without sedative or hypnotic effects.

Edited by zorba990, 19 August 2014 - 10:54 PM.

Oh its for MAOi induced.. SEROQUEL will knock you right out guaranteed. MAOi = catecholamines up <----> Seroquel = catecholamines down

Edited by Plasticperson, 19 August 2014 - 11:00 PM.

Its useful to know the causes and mechanisms from bush/hudson http://naturalmedici...-cortisol-sleep

And the follow-up with practical application: http://www.moodcure....rticle.docx.pdf

I'm currently finding great relief from 10mg Memantine IR and 450mg of elemental magnesium from mag citrate.

This combo is not by any means sedative. It seems to make me naturally sleepy and in the mornings I wake up easily. And what's most important for me is increased deep sleep. Before even if I could fall asleep I didn't get any deep sleep. I used a sleep tracking app on my phone and was shocked to find that I kept twisting and turning every couple of minutes whole night through. Now when I fall asleep I sleep peacefully.
Also I think Memantine is changing something on subconscious level. When I dream I dream like I used to dream many years ago. Plotlines instead of random fragments that make no sense whatsoever.

 

Do you the know the mg quantity of Mg citrate you take to reach 450mg elemental Mg?

I would try Lavender tea.

Its worth a try because its a calcium channel inhibitor, but I would firstly take smaller amounts and look whether it interferes with the inhibited MAO

I'm currently finding great relief from 10mg Memantine IR and 450mg of elemental magnesium from mag citrate.

This combo is not by any means sedative. It seems to make me naturally sleepy and in the mornings I wake up easily. And what's most important for me is increased deep sleep. Before even if I could fall asleep I didn't get any deep sleep. I used a sleep tracking app on my phone and was shocked to find that I kept twisting and turning every couple of minutes whole night through. Now when I fall asleep I sleep peacefully.
Also I think Memantine is changing something on subconscious level. When I dream I dream like I used to dream many years ago. Plotlines instead of random fragments that make no sense whatsoever.

Do you the know the mg quantity of Mg citrate you take to reach 450mg elemental Mg?

With the formula I take it translates into 3g of mg cit.
I also recently added 1 gram of l-tryptophan to the mix and it definitely adds to the deepness of sleep.

I'm currently finding great relief from 10mg Memantine IR and 450mg of elemental magnesium from mag citrate.

This combo is not by any means sedative. It seems to make me naturally sleepy and in the mornings I wake up easily. And what's most important for me is increased deep sleep. Before even if I could fall asleep I didn't get any deep sleep. I used a sleep tracking app on my phone and was shocked to find that I kept twisting and turning every couple of minutes whole night through. Now when I fall asleep I sleep peacefully.
Also I think Memantine is changing something on subconscious level. When I dream I dream like I used to dream many years ago. Plotlines instead of random fragments that make no sense whatsoever.

Do you the know the mg quantity of Mg citrate you take to reach 450mg elemental Mg?

With the formula I take it translates into 3g of mg cit.
I also recently added 1 gram of l-tryptophan to the mix and it definitely adds to the deepness of sleep.

i think tryptophan daily is a bad idea due to the seratonin affecting heart valves etc or so Ive heard.

 

on a side note, melatonin seems to be causing me depression if used two nights continously.

 

 

i think tryptophan daily is a bad idea due to the seratonin affecting heart valves etc or so Ive heard.

 

on a side note, melatonin seems to be causing me depression if used two nights continously.

 

Dunno, I heard this at least for SSRIs.

5-HTP daily can be bad, tryptophan not so much.

Be very very careful toying with GABAergic anything like neurontin/lyrica or baclofen. These very subtly bring on nasty tolerance with withdrawal syndrome in some.

Seroquel is nasty stuff, it made me feel like a brain dead zombie for over a day the one time I tried it. Not worth it for just insomnia, leave it for serious antipsychotic/mood stabilizing purposes as intended.

Trazodone feels "dirty" to me likely due to the antihistamine and blanket antiserotonergic effects. Blockade of 5-HT1&2 is not something I want regularly.

Magnesium (I like glycinate as citrate is a laxative), L-theanine, and just the right dosage of bacopa (50-150mg 40% std. ext.,any more or less causes insomnia) work for me. Ambien does too, but that's not really what I'd recommend if you aren't already taking prescription pharmaceuticals.

Wake up earlier, exercise to exhaustion, maintain sleep hygiene, sleep a little less intentionally.

I would have to say...Magnolia Extract + Gastrodin = GABA-potentiation + GABA reuptake inhibition.

Works like a charm, every time, and I have pretty bad Insomnia.

Edited by Area-1255, 19 September 2014 - 10:44 PM.

Did you ever consider switching to another MAOI? I've slept for 12 hours straight on selegiline, in dosages high enough to inhibit MAO-A.

Did you ever consider switching to another MAOI? I've slept for 12 hours straight on selegiline, in dosages high enough to inhibit MAO-A.

I believe that's because of serotonin elevation and dopamine hitting the D2 receptor that causes sedation or calming.

Although for most people, or those who are sympathetically dominant - MAOI's would probably CAUSE or exacerbate Insomnia.

I would have to say...Magnolia Extract + Gastrodin = GABA-potentiation + GABA reuptake inhibition.

Works like a charm, every time, and I have pretty bad Insomnia.

 

Interesting, I ordered some of both to include in an insomnia stack that I'm putting together.  What dosage did you use for Magnolia Extract and Gastrodin?

I second zorba in trying l-glycine for insomnia. And you don't have to worry about side effects and drug interactions (except for clozapine).