LONGECITY

Let me start with I am on 750mg of testosterone Enanthate each week, minimum. My testosterone levels are off the charts.

But somehow, when i randomly take zinc at night, I wake up with a boner/morning wood.
How is this possible/what's the mechanism of action?


Truly Blessed.

1. Zinc reduces prolactin.
2. Zinc has dopaminergic activity similar to amphetamine (regarding the dopamine transporter)

Hmmm.
Prolactin. I need to get that tested then.

I'm not sure I understand the amphetamine sentence.


Truly Blessed.

I question whether zinc has a significant influence on prolactin levels, and it sure as hell isn't much like amphetamine.

 

So Metaphasic, how much zinc are you taking?  Is it the picolinate form, by any chance?  Picolinate can have pretty crazy effects on some people.    IMHO the connection between morning wood and T is pretty random.  I find that it correlates a lot better with really needing to pee first thing in the AM, but maybe that's just me.

50mg of the cheap stuff from Kroger.


Truly Blessed.

Zinc can reverse (IIRC) the dopamine transporter, in a similar way to amphetamine.

It also has NMDA antagonsism.

Look it up niner, the papers are there.

Zinc can reverse (IIRC) the dopamine transporter, in a similar way to amphetamine.

It also has NMDA antagonsism.

Look it up niner, the papers are there.

No idea what either of those sentences mean or why it would cause morning wood. :(


Truly Blessed.

OK, basically Zinc can have or contribute to stimulant like effects which is likely the cause of morning wood.

... I appreciate the explanation.
I'm having trouble understanding why a stimulant would cause an erection. Doesn't seem to be the case with caffeine, ephedrine, etc.


Truly Blessed.

Zinc's Dopamine stimulant properties lower prolactin which can increase libido etc. High prolactin (levels rise after orgasm) in males usually results in lowered libido.

Taking 750 mg of Test a week it seems like you should wake up with morning wood every morning!  How long have you been taking it?  Also, I hope you are doing some high intensity training cuz if you are, you must be in great shape!

 

My guess is it's zinc's effect on prolactin levels more than any amphetamine like effect.

 

I too find zinc to be extremely beneficial to libido but don't take it on a regular basis because if I take it on an empty stomach it makes me nauseous and I try not to eat late at night.

Zinc's Dopamine stimulant properties lower prolactin which can increase libido etc. High prolactin (levels rise after orgasm) in males usually results in lowered libido.

 
No, it doesn't.  One might have expected such a thing on the basis of theory or in vitro data, but in humans, it doesn't happen, according to these guys:
 

J Trace Elem Med Biol. 2002;16(2):69-73.
Zinc supplementation does not inhibit basal and metoclopramide-stimulated prolactinemia secretion in healthy men.
Castro AV, Mendonça BB, Bloise W, Shuhama T, Brandão-Neto J.

Dopamine (DA) and zinc (Zn++) share common mechanisms in their inhibition of prolactin (PRL) secretion. Both substances are present in the same brain areas, where Zn++ is released together with DA, suggesting a modulatory effect of Zn++ on dopaminergic receptors. The aim of the present study was to evaluate the effect of Zn++ supplementation on basal and PRL secretion stimulated by metoclopramide (MCP), a dopaminergic antagonist. Seven healthy men were evaluated in controlled study, where MCP (5 mg) was given intravenously, before and after 3 months of oral Zn++ (25 mg) administration. Our results indicate that chronic Zn++ administration does not change basal or MCP-stimulated plasma PRL secretion suggesting that, in humans, Zn++ does not interfere on PRL secretion mediated through dopaminergic receptors.

PMID: 12195728

Zinc regulates the dopamine transporter in a membrane potential and chloride dependent manner.

Pifl C, Wolf A, Rebernik P, Reither H, Berger ML.
Source
Center for Brain Research, Medical University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 4, A-1090 Vienna, Austria. christian.pifl@meduniwien.ac.at

Abstract

The dopamine transporter (DAT), a membrane protein specifically expressed by dopaminergic neurons and mediating the action of psychostimulants and dopaminergic neurotoxins, is regulated by Zn(2+) which directly interacts with the protein. Herein, we report a host-cell-specific direction of the Zn(2+) effect on wild type DAT. Whereas low mumolar Zn(2+) decreased dopamine uptake by DAT expressing HEK293 cells, it stimulated uptake by DAT expressing SK-N-MC cells. Inhibition or stimulation was lost in a DAT construct without the binding site for Zn(2+). Also reverse transport was differentially affected by Zn(2+), dependent on whether the DAT was expressed in HEK293 or SK-N-MC cells. Pre-treatment of DAT expressing cells with phorbol-12-myristate-13-acetate, an activator of protein kinase C, attenuated the inhibitory effect of Zn(2+) on uptake in HEK293 cells and increased the stimulatory effect in SK-N-MC cells. Patch-clamp experiments under non-voltage-clamped conditions revealed a significantly higher membrane potential of HEK293 than SK-N-MC cells and a reduced membrane potential after phorbol ester treatment. Lowering chloride in the uptake buffer switched the stimulatory effect of Zn(2+) in SK-N-MC cells to an inhibitory, whereas high potassium depolarization of HEK293 cells switched the inhibitory effect of Zn(2+) to a stimulatory one. This study represents the first evidence that DAT regulation by Zn(2+) is profoundly modulated by the membrane potential and chloride

...
The former study presented says that Zinc mimicking the action of amphetamine-like drugs by inhibition of Dopamine Transporter Protein. As long as the cell is excitable zinc blocks dopamine reuptake, if the cell slows down, zinc also enhances dopamine uptake. It means that it should elevate dopamine levels in sypnase.

Edited by sativa, 22 June 2016 - 10:02 AM.

Zinc is a fairly impressive aromatase inhibitor..ie it can help to lower estradiol levels in men, particularly if you were a little deficient. I don't know about the prolactin effect really, but I and many other TRT users and bodybuilder types have used it to lower estrogen levels. Dr. John Crisler, a notable TRT specialist, claims to have used it successfully to lower E in many of his clients.

 

 

 

Examine mentions this property of zinc as well primary literature in Google Scholar.

 

 

 

 

And of course, the story is much more complicated than that...http://search.proque...igsite=gscholar

 

In conclusion, zinc deficiency reduces your Mojo.

 

Zinc regulates the dopamine transporter in a membrane potential and chloride dependent manner.

Pifl C, Wolf A, Rebernik P, Reither H, Berger ML.

The dopamine transporter (DAT), a membrane protein specifically expressed by dopaminergic neurons and mediating the action of psychostimulants and dopaminergic neurotoxins, is regulated by Zn(2+) which directly interacts with the protein. Herein, we report a host-cell-specific direction of the Zn(2+) effect on wild type DAT. Whereas low mumolar Zn(2+) decreased dopamine uptake by DAT expressing HEK293 cells, it stimulated uptake by DAT expressing SK-N-MC cells. Inhibition or stimulation was lost in a DAT construct without the binding site for Zn(2+). Also reverse transport was differentially affected by Zn(2+), dependent on whether the DAT was expressed in HEK293 or SK-N-MC cells. Pre-treatment of DAT expressing cells with phorbol-12-myristate-13-acetate, an activator of protein kinase C, attenuated the inhibitory effect of Zn(2+) on uptake in HEK293 cells and increased the stimulatory effect in SK-N-MC cells. Patch-clamp experiments under non-voltage-clamped conditions revealed a significantly higher membrane potential of HEK293 than SK-N-MC cells and a reduced membrane potential after phorbol ester treatment. Lowering chloride in the uptake buffer switched the stimulatory effect of Zn(2+) in SK-N-MC cells to an inhibitory, whereas high potassium depolarization of HEK293 cells switched the inhibitory effect of Zn(2+) to a stimulatory one. This study represents the first evidence that DAT regulation by Zn(2+) is profoundly modulated by the membrane potential and chloride

 

 

When I said one might have (hypothetically) expected zinc to have an AMP-like effect based on in vitro work, this is the kind of paper I was talking about.  All manner of chemicals have all manner of effects on cells in a Petri dish, which is the type of experiment discussed in this paper.  These effects are almost invariably not seen in vivo, due to the body's many ways of rapidly eliminating foreign compounds.   This is the single most common mistake in the supplement world.
 

Fair enough!! Zinc is good stuff anyway.

I use Vitamin E succinate to lower prolactin, IIRC B6 and samE also lower prolactin.

Suma root is a great indirect libido enhancer.

Fair enough!! Zinc is good stuff anyway.

I use Vitamin E succinate to lower prolactin, IIRC B6 and samE also lower prolactin.

Suma root is a great indirect libido enhancer.

 

Thanks for the information, I am looking to lower prolactin as well.  What time(s) of day do you take your zinc, what dosage, and with or without food?  The reason I ask is due to the recommendations for taking ZMA.  Thanks

Edited by CaptainJ, 24 June 2016 - 12:27 AM.

Fair enough!! Zinc is good stuff anyway.

I use Vitamin E succinate to lower prolactin, IIRC B6 and samE also lower prolactin.

Suma root is a great indirect libido enhancer.

Thanks for the information, I am looking to lower prolactin as well. What time(s) of day do you take your zinc, what dosage, and with or without food? The reason I ask is due to the recommendations for taking ZMA. Thanks

I take viridian "clear skin" capsules which contain 7.5mg zinc, I take 2 every morning (15mg Zn total).

I also have 400UI vitamin E succinate most mornings.

I drink magnesium rich mineral water a few times a week and more recently "blk" water which is fulvic minerals (& other things) fortified water.

Alright. I'm going to get blood work to help you guys narrow down your theories.


Truly Blessed.