Can too much protien lead to Kidney Stones?
athanatos 11 Dec 2005
I have two questions.
1. Is it possible that an extreme amount of protein could cause kidney stones? If so how much (in grams)?
2. Are there any foods or supplements that might be able to help deteriorate growing kidney stones?
Guest_da_sense_* 11 Dec 2005
Why would you want to eat too much protein anyway?
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athanatos 11 Dec 2005
Shepard 11 Dec 2005
scottl 11 Dec 2005
B6, magnesium, and calcium (to bind the oxalate which makes up the most common kind of stones) can help prevent stones.
http://qualitycounts...ney_stones.html
Shepard 11 Dec 2005
Also, aren't excessively high protein intakes linked to calcium deficiencies, as well as certain amino acid deficiencies....which could lead to the stones?
athanatos 11 Dec 2005
scottl 12 Dec 2005
Scott, what are you considering a large amount of protein? I've seen a couple of reports of people (evidence is entirely anecdotal, however) who had kidney failure from intake above 400-500 g/day for long periods of time. Granted, you hear horror stories about this kind of stuff all the time in some circles.
Also, aren't excessively high protein intakes linked to calcium deficiencies, as well as certain amino acid deficiencies....which could lead to the stones?
400-500 g/day? It is not easy to exceed....say 100-200 grams protein/day with food alone and you'd have to be a BB, probably on juice to want 400-500g/day (and drink a ton of protein shakes to get it). I'm skeptical that even doses that high are unsafe IF ONE STAYS HYDRATED, but that situation is totally irrelevant for 99% of people (say >95% of people on this board since some BBs are here). Too much water can literally kill one from hyponatremia, so water is dangerous, right?
"Also, aren't excessively high protein intakes linked:
>>>to calcium deficiencies,
There was old data, that this was an issue and high protein diets caused loss of calcium. I do not believe more recent evidence has supported this. Everyone needs enough calcium and I do not believe consuming large amounts of protein affects this significantly.
>>>as well as certain amino acid deficiencies....which could lead to the stones?
since protein is made up of amino acids I cannot imagine how eating large amounts of protein could lead one to be deficient in any amino acid. This does not make any sense.
For people with normal renal function, eating too much protein is just not an issue contrary to vegetarian propaganda. You can search t-mag.com or http://www.bodyrecom...ion.com/forums/ if you wish more discussion.
Shepard 12 Dec 2005
On the amount of protein issue, I'm sure you've read around on some of the body building sites enough to see some of the people there claiming their 400+ g/day intake. It really isn't all that difficult if you're taking in above 3200-3500 Calories or so. If you add some whey to all the water you drink throughout the day, it is even easier.
hyoomen 12 Dec 2005
I should also note that I do not subscribe to the belief that protein consumption leads to osteoperosis or kidney stones directly -- most typically kidney stones are the result of a dietary imbalance. In the case of protein consumption for bodybuilders, a lack of proper fibrous vegetables (specifically ones high in calcium) could allow the calcium-leaching to become drastic enough. Calcium sources need to be found in foods rather than supplements to help reduce kidney stone formations. Additionally, increasing your alkalinity even slightly (with kombucha, alkalizing water, broccoli, sweet potatoes, umeboshi etc) ought to reduce your body's leaching of calcium.
Any questions or concerns?
Guest_da_sense_* 12 Dec 2005
scottl 12 Dec 2005
...It's quite simple: we evolved on protein intakes in the 2.5-3.5 g/kg range, athletes have eaten shitpiles of protein for decades and there has never been a SINGLE case of kidney damage. Any theoretical problems are only that: purely theoretical. Just make sure and stay hydrated by increasing water intake. Unless you have kidney damage, there is no problem.
Lyle
The whole kidneys falling out with high protein intake always cracks me up. A historical reference I like to make is the Lewis and Clark expedition ;ate shit loads of buffalo meat per their journals (around 1000g of protein a day) for years. For sure their kidneys had to be hanging around their knees when they came back.
http://www.bodyrecom...13907#post13907
Shepard 13 Dec 2005
We all know that there are all kinds of substances that are perfectly safe if used correctly. Granted, protein intake would probably be at the absolute bottom of this list among the "you'd have to have a sloped forehead to mess it up" items.
scottl 13 Dec 2005
Just how much fluid intake would everyone say is "well-hydrated" for a protein intake around 1.5 g/lb? .
Same rule of thumb as everyone else. Enough fluid (obviously in divided doses) so your urine is mostly colorless (B vits excepted) and mostly ordorless.
tham 16 Dec 2005
Piedra, found mostly in the Hispanic countries
and tropics, apparently is a good kidney cleanser.
The Amarus and Niruri species are also potent
antiviral plants.
http://www.cfsn.com/chanca.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12599017
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12010223
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=10095174
http://betterlife.co...p?prod_id=13959
ta5 13 Apr 2019
Kidney stones: pathophysiology and medical management.
The association of high protein intake with propensity to stone formation is well established from epidemiological and metabolic studies, and work in animals.51–54 The following issues remain undetermined and are topics of ongoing research: (i) what components in protein other than acid are causing the hypercalciuria?; and (ii) is there a primary effect on intestinal absorption in addition to the effect on bone and kidney?
51. Robertson WG, Heyburn PJ, Peacock M, Hanes FA, Swaminathan R. The effect of high animal protein intake on the risk of calcium stone-formation in the urinary tract. Clin Sci 1979; 57: 285–88.