LONGECITY

Sup guys,

I'm on Latuda 111mg, Zyprexa 2.5mg and Clonazepam 0.5 to 1.5mg. I've been drinking 6-8 beers a day (almost each day for 1,5 months now), than have a nap, after that, I drink either 4 more beers or don't depending on how I feel. I've been warned and I know from myself it's dangerous but so far the sign and symptoms show the opposite. When I drink my "positive" (I don't have positive symptoms but I mean more in general, feeling psychotic), my negative, depression and social symptoms have been replenished while I'm living this lifestyle. On days I don't drink at all those symptoms intervene with functioning like a healthy person and all I can do on those days is being depressed, impossible to enjoy anything and wanting/thinking about sleep (this was also the case before I started to drink). I was wondering how I react so positive to alcohol? I know the effects of alcohol on gaba-a and dopamine receptors but I'm not sure about what alcohol does to the glutamate system? I myself am kinda confused that alcohol can have such a positive impact on me and my symptoms and that I kinda found out I'm lost without it. And btw I'm not an addict or suffer from alcoholism I just want to know how alcohol affects the brainsystems and receptors to sort out why my brain reacts to it in this way.

I rather have the person that flagged this thread as "dangerous, Irresponsible" speak up instead of marking it this way. Although there is a stigma on using alcohol when you have a mental illness, I rather want you to speak, stand up, instead of just flagging.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 17 May 2017 - 05:53 PM.

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I have not flagged your post. Just wanted to point out that you are indeed an alcoholic if you are drinking 6-8 beers per day. Being an alcoholic just means drinking a lot of alcohol.

I have not flagged your post. Just wanted to point out that you are indeed an alcoholic if you are drinking 6-8 beers per day. Being an alcoholic just means drinking a lot of alcohol.

Same here. If you're​ addicted to alcohol, you feel worse without and better resuming drinking. But, never stop cold turkey, delirium can be deadly.

I don't understand. I'm sorry, I've looked up the symptoms of alcoholism several times and I just don't fit in. And stopping isn't really causing delirium because as I already said I've been like this (my symptoms) before starting with drinking. What I really would appreciate is telling me what alcohol does to the brain and certain receptors. I'm schizophrenic okay that brings it's baggage by drinking but I've been told by my psychiatrist and psychologist I don't fit in the schizophrenic picture and my diagnosis may be changed in the future. What I'm trying to say, healthy individuals may tolerate alcohol like I'm doing right now. With that I mean drinking everyday without the side- or effects of alcoholism. Couldn't be this the case? Or what I'm more interested about I'll like to know what alcohol does to the glutamate system. (from what I know alcohol raises dopamine and gaba in the brain, isn't it weird I don't hallucinate raising dopamine for over 1,5 month?)
Edited by YoungSchizo, 17 May 2017 - 11:14 PM.

In the long run this will make your symptoms worse.

This is how lots of people start off self treating a mental illness. Alcohol makes them feel better in the short term, eventually, they will need alcohol to function, and then abstinence will be extremely difficult as the negative symptoms will intensify.

You're better off heading to your doctor and tell them you're not in remission. You probably need some kind of SNRI cocktail in there.

In the long run this will make your symptoms worse.
This is how lots of people start off self treating a mental illness. Alcohol makes them feel better in the short term, eventually, they will need alcohol to function, and then abstinence will be extremely difficult as the negative symptoms will intensify.
You're better off heading to your doctor and tell them you're not in remission. You probably need some kind of SNRI cocktail in there.

Please tell me more about the SNRI cocktail. Keep in mind, this SNRI cocktail needs to be suited with what I'm already taking.

And I dunno man, right now I'm happy with how things are. This is the first time in ages I can really take my mind off things and enjoy life and it feels deliberating. I am just wondering what effects alcohol has on certain brain system en receptors. Yeah, I might be(come) an alcoholic but aren't healthy people who drink daily, function well and without getting into trouble alcoholics too..? I just like the psychotic feeling leaving my mind and that it fills it up with useful thoughts and behaviors. I've been in trouble with alcohol in the past but this time it feels different. I'm like 80% more stable than the period I drank alcohol to counter my issues.

You'd look at something like Effexor, Cymbalta or Pristiq.

SNRIs go well with anti psychotics. It sounds like you have alot of negative symptoms which anti psychotics alone don't help. They actually synergise with SNRIs via 5HT2A antagonism.

You could also go for the SRI + TCA combination but thats probably too complicated for two anti psychotics.

Putting aside the long term health risks of alcohol in large doses and whether your diagnoses is accurate, its not at all surprising that it could be helpful. A classic understanding of schizophrenia is that the symptoms flow from severe anxiety or terror. Alcohol if nothing else, relieves anxiety.

You'd look at something like Effexor, Cymbalta or Pristiq.

SNRIs go well with anti psychotics. It sounds like you have alot of negative symptoms which anti psychotics alone don't help. They actually synergise with SNRIs via 5HT2A antagonism.

You could also go for the SRI + TCA combination but thats probably too complicated for two anti psychotics.

 

I never heard antidepressants can help severe negative symptoms. Maybe I can still give a shot though.

 

Putting aside the long term health risks of alcohol in large doses and whether your diagnoses is accurate, its not at all surprising that it could be helpful. A classic understanding of schizophrenia is that the symptoms flow from severe anxiety or terror. Alcohol if nothing else, relieves anxiety.

 

My symptoms are pure terror. If it wasn't for the alcohol I would want to lay in bed all day long hungry to fall asleep. It feels like I'm trapped in negative thoughts all day long, unable to successfully distract myself, can't read, can't watch tv, can't enjoy gaming, etc etc you name it. 

 

 

My symptoms are pure terror. If it wasn't for the alcohol I would want to lay in bed all day long hungry to fall asleep. It feels like I'm trapped in negative thoughts all day long, unable to successfully distract myself, can't read, can't watch tv, can't enjoy gaming, etc etc you name it. 

 

 

you are either misdiagnosed or treated inappropriately. why don't you get proper treatment rather than self-treating with something that will kill your liver and brain in the long term.

 

if you really have schiso, IMHO, the best treatment is atypical antipsychotics (like Abilify) and 5HT3 antagonists (like Zofran).

from what I know alcohol raises dopamine and gaba in the brain, isn't it weird I don't hallucinate raising dopamine for over 1,5 month?

 

yes, alcohol stimulates dopaminic and GABA systems short term, but downregulates those receptors long term. this is why alcoholics are depressed and suicidal.
 

from what I know alcohol raises dopamine and gaba in the brain, isn't it weird I don't hallucinate raising dopamine for over 1,5 month?

yes, alcohol stimulates dopaminic and GABA systems short term, but downregulates those receptors long term. this is why alcoholics are depressed and suicidal.

Could it be possible that my dopaminergic system has been depressed/downregulated by antipsychotics for so long and that's why I react so positive to alcohol by upregulating it every day?
Edited by YoungSchizo, 20 May 2017 - 09:09 PM.

What happened YoungSchizo? You seemed to have learned a lot from experimenting and reading throughout years, and even understood what helps your symptoms, but now you seem to have lost all that knowledge and experience?

What happened YoungSchizo? You seemed to have learned a lot from experimenting and reading throughout years, and even understood what helps your symptoms, but now you seem to have lost all that knowledge and experience?

Don't ask m8.. I've been through hell several times the past two years. It's like I've totally have forgotten what I've learned. I mean, I never really had the insight some of you guys have but after a really bad psychosis 2 years back I've kinda lost my insight into things. That's also the period I switched from Zyprexa to Latuda, after noticing the very strong antipsychotic effect of Latuda I kinda stopped developing myself and my knowledge on these forums, I just kinda gave up because my positive symptoms subsided. Here I am, choosing between a very effective treatment for psychosis or a less working treatment like Zyprexa that can cause havoc on my mental health (positive symptoms). The one makes me a little dumber, a gambling addict and alcoholic, the other causes lasting psychosis issues. With how things are right now and the development in the schizophrenia field I chose being less psychotic. Meanwhile I dropped all of the supplements and nootropics I reacted positive to but I've been experimenting with different kind of antidepressant though, without any success. On Latuda, nootropics, Sarcosine, Sodium Benzoate, vitamins or supplements just don't work. I dunno man, I guess I have to sit this one out and see how things go from here. After my vacation this summer I can give Cariprazine (that has been approved 1 day ago) a try. If you have any suggestions to counter severe negative symptoms please tell me...

Avoiding psychiatric meds while suffering severe mental illnesses (such as Anhedonia) is akin to a cancer patient avoiding treatment and self researching treatment on forums like these and trying different nootropics.

 

All it leads to is a higher risk of suicide, worsening of symptoms etc. You've done the right thing YoungSchizo, but i'd be aggressively seeking more treatment as you cannot continue using Alcohol like this. I'd stop now, allow the symptoms to come out and head back to the psychiatrist.

 

SNRIs do help Anhedonia as much as the Internet convinces you otherwise. But if they worsen Anhedonia, its either the wrong med, dose, or you need augmentation. You already have anti psychotics which are great augments for SNRIs. I think you would do well by trying one.

 

Avoiding psychiatric meds while suffering severe mental illnesses (such as Anhedonia) is akin to a cancer patient avoiding treatment and self researching treatment on forums like these and trying different nootropics.

All it leads to is a higher risk of suicide, worsening of symptoms etc. You've done the right thing YoungSchizo, but i'd be aggressively seeking more treatment as you cannot continue using Alcohol like this. I'd stop now, allow the symptoms to come out and head back to the psychiatrist.

SNRIs do help Anhedonia as much as the Internet convinces you otherwise. But if they worsen Anhedonia, its either the wrong med, dose, or you need augmentation. You already have anti psychotics which are great augments for SNRIs. I think you would do well by trying one.

You know what sucks about psychiatry, they even don't know what they're doing. Couple of weeks ago I asked for therapy, what did they do, denied my access to therapy saying I don't need therapy but a challenge.

What I do have power over is the medication I'm taking. I'll try some of your suggestions and see how it goes.

Cariprazine seems good because according to Wiklipedia it potentially doesn't possess the awful side-effects of other dopamine partial agonists, which are movement disorders.

But since it's new it's probably risky to try.. probably lots of unknown side-effects.

Cariprazine seems good because according to Wiklipedia it potentially doesn't possess the awful side-effects of other dopamine partial agonists, which are movement disorders.
But since it's new it's probably risky to try.. probably lots of unknown side-effects.

Being on Latuda is not just that all of bad though.. It's also activating, I guess just not in a way I really benefit from. Cariprazine might bring me more luck because it's "supposed" to target negative symptoms and what I anecdotally know about Cariprazine is that it's also quite activating.

 

Avoiding psychiatric meds while suffering severe mental illnesses (such as Anhedonia) is akin to a cancer patient avoiding treatment and self researching treatment on forums like these and trying different nootropics.

All it leads to is a higher risk of suicide, worsening of symptoms etc. You've done the right thing YoungSchizo, but i'd be aggressively seeking more treatment as you cannot continue using Alcohol like this. I'd stop now, allow the symptoms to come out and head back to the psychiatrist.

SNRIs do help Anhedonia as much as the Internet convinces you otherwise. But if they worsen Anhedonia, its either the wrong med, dose, or you need augmentation. You already have anti psychotics which are great augments for SNRIs. I think you would do well by trying one.

You know what sucks about psychiatry, they even don't know what they're doing. Couple of weeks ago I asked for therapy, what did they do, denied my access to therapy saying I don't need therapy but a challenge.

What I do have power over is the medication I'm taking. I'll try some of your suggestions and see how it goes.

 

 

Some know better than others.

If you're not getting remission of symptoms to a satisfactory degree i'd be changing doctors.

 

All i know is that supplements & nootropics aren't the answer for negative symptoms. The only exception seems to be something like Sarcosine which has some solid evidence behind it.

Everything else is pseudo science & anecdotal, which are almost useless.

 

 

Avoiding psychiatric meds while suffering severe mental illnesses (such as Anhedonia) is akin to a cancer patient avoiding treatment and self researching treatment on forums like these and trying different nootropics.

All it leads to is a higher risk of suicide, worsening of symptoms etc. You've done the right thing YoungSchizo, but i'd be aggressively seeking more treatment as you cannot continue using Alcohol like this. I'd stop now, allow the symptoms to come out and head back to the psychiatrist.

SNRIs do help Anhedonia as much as the Internet convinces you otherwise. But if they worsen Anhedonia, its either the wrong med, dose, or you need augmentation. You already have anti psychotics which are great augments for SNRIs. I think you would do well by trying one.

You know what sucks about psychiatry, they even don't know what they're doing. Couple of weeks ago I asked for therapy, what did they do, denied my access to therapy saying I don't need therapy but a challenge.

What I do have power over is the medication I'm taking. I'll try some of your suggestions and see how it goes.

 

 

Some know better than others.

If you're not getting remission of symptoms to a satisfactory degree i'd be changing doctors.

 

All i know is that supplements & nootropics aren't the answer for negative symptoms. The only exception seems to be something like Sarcosine which has some solid evidence behind it.

Everything else is pseudo science & anecdotal, which are almost useless.

 

 

So, how can you be sure an SNRI could work for negative symptoms? What is the scientific explanation behind it?

 

 

Antidepressants along with antipsychotics are more effective in treating the negative symptoms of schizophrenia than antipsychotics alone.

 

http://bjp.rcpsych.o...ntent/197/3/174

 

Its quite common for schizos to be on SSRI/SNRI type drugs along with anti psychotics. The depressive symptoms overlap quite abit.

Not an expert on schizophrenia so I am hoping someone steps in here that can help him out. Glycine though is shown to decrease symptoms of schizophrenia.

Edited by Jiminy Glick, 21 May 2017 - 04:20 PM.

It seems to me that the idea behind it is as such: you're fallen and broken your leg and you're in extreme pain. You either take a pain killer to remove the pain or you break all your bones so you overwhelm your nervous system and shut it down, potentially making you unable to ever feel pain again.

A painkiller might actually help the sufferer so that's completely out of the question because opioids are drugs of abuse and bla bla bla something something liberal loony nonsense excuse.

Therefore, naturally the only obvious choice left is to break every bone of the suffering individual!

It seems to me that the idea behind it is as such: you're fallen and broken your leg and you're in extreme pain. You either take a pain killer to remove the pain or you break all your bones so you overwhelm your nervous system and shut it down, potentially making you unable to ever feel pain again.
A painkiller might actually help the sufferer so that's completely out of the question because opioids are drugs of abuse and bla bla bla something something liberal loony nonsense excuse.
Therefore, naturally the only obvious choice left is to break every bone of the suffering individual!

That's actually what I'm doing right now according to you guys, no? I'm done with suffering severely.
Edited by YoungSchizo, 21 May 2017 - 05:52 PM.

Please stop drinking YS... : ( Everyone has already said what's obvious, but just please stop - you're going to hurt yourself really badly if you continue.

 

Now... with that said... There are other options, as has been mentioned.

 

Reboxetine (has evidence supporting effects on negative symptoms)

Ondansetron (or any other selective 5ht3-antagonist, really)

Dihexa

Lithium

Brexpiprazole

Cariprazine

 

 

I believe the reason why SNRI's are mentioned is because they have shown greater effects on the cognitive symptoms of depression, while showing greater efficacy on the actual depressive symptoms than pure NRI's. That may not be relevant to you, though - but if you go for an SNRI, I'd recommend getting Milnacipran, since that has a greater NE-component than previous SNRI's.

 

You just have to talk to your Dr's, get them to try out some of these compounds - Dihexa is of course outside of their jurisdiction, but start a new thread for a new Dihexa group buy - there are always people interested in that drug. (I'm one of them - I actually started looking into it, because a very good friend has a close relative with tremendous, tremendous negative symptoms)

Guys I really appreciate your concerns. Also the concern of people around me.
Today has been a really tough day for me because of an incident what happened a while ago that came to the surface. All of a sudden I became paranoid and anxious all day long, this horrible feeling subsided when I start to drink again. I think I would feel the same way if I didn't drink. But with a couple of drinks this paranoid and anxious feeling totally got replenished. You guys and people close to me gave advice this might go to worse if I keep on drinking and I take that seriously. But my question is where do I go from here, what do I take to make this paranoid and anxious feeling stop without drinking. Should I add more medicine to my cocktail or increase my benzodiazapine intake? I don't know anymore, on one hand I'm stubborn to say I keep on drinking in order to feel normal on the other hand there is family and you guys telling me my drinking habits might become a nightmare for me. Where to go from here?

It's totally like what you guys are saying, I feel normal with drinking and totally out of balance when I don't. That makes it hard to not stop this path I'm walking on.

How many drugs and/or supplements are you taking? List them all, and we'll have a look at it - we might be able to give some tips.

 

Maybe make a list of former drugs as well, and what your response to them was, then we'll proceed with some deductions from all of that.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 22 May 2017 - 09:23 PM.

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We're not doctors, important to note.

But just looking at what you're taking it isn't sufficient to target the symptoms you're complaining of.

 

Paranoia & Anxiety can be treated with benzos but that is usually a short term solution, just like Alcohol, as they both target similar brain regions.

 

I think you'd get more relief long term by adding an SSRI, SNRI, TCA or if those dont work, eventually Nardil. People on the SAS forum state Nardil is the golden standard for Anxiety, and it would also hit on those negative symptoms as well.

 

While Alcohol is making you feel relief now (It did for me years ago) you'll eventually fall deeper and it wont help you anymore.