AGE Breakers
Jeff1 19 Jul 2017
After over a year of searching, I've found a reliable source to purchase tetrahydroxystilbene-glucoside and rosemarinic acid.
For those of you who are not aware, these are two of the most promising AGE breakers.
The supplier requires a minimum quantity of over 3 kilogram of each (in powder form) and am interested in a group buy. If anyone is interested, please let me know.
Edited by Jeff1, 19 July 2017 - 06:38 AM.
PWAIN 20 Jul 2017
Jeff1 20 Jul 2017
Here are some preliminary figures:
10% tetrahydroxystilbene-glucoside powder: 30 cents per gram
20% rosemarinic acid powder: 25 cents per gram
Does anyone have experience with a good lab for testing purposes? I imagine this would be quite expensive to have tested, but I have not checked into it.
Edited by Jeff1, 20 July 2017 - 07:43 PM.
PWAIN 20 Jul 2017
meatsauce 21 Jul 2017
Here are some preliminary figures:
10% tetrahydroxystilbene-glucoside powder: 30 cents per gram
20% rosemarinic acid powder: 25 cents per gram
Does anyone have experience with a good lab for testing purposes? I imagine this would be quite expensive to have tested, but I have not checked into it.
Yea I do. Its not that much. I think a few hundred per compound if we do the heavy metal testing.
Jeff1 21 Jul 2017
Thanks Jeff, that sounds reasonable. Couple more questions. What is in the other 90 and 80%? I'm mostly worried if it is harmful? Also what sort of dose would be typical? Is it something that would be take daily or on off from time to time?
These are both plant extracts to specified concentrations. The rest is the remaining plant material after extract:
10% tetrahydroxystilbene-glucosid is from Polygonum Multiflorum Thunb.
20% rosemarinic acid powder is from Rosemary Leaf
The supplier will purify these to higher concentrations if requested, but the price increases proportionately, and this makes the cost of buying a few kilograms much higher.
Personally, I would probably use around 1 gram of extract per day. I am determined to break my AGEs, so I may be more aggressive than others in dosage.
Jeff1 21 Jul 2017
Here are some preliminary figures:
10% tetrahydroxystilbene-glucoside powder: 30 cents per gram
20% rosemarinic acid powder: 25 cents per gram
Does anyone have experience with a good lab for testing purposes? I imagine this would be quite expensive to have tested, but I have not checked into it.
Yea I do. Its not that much. I think a few hundred per compound if we do the heavy metal testing.
I see. How large of a sample do we need? I already have a 10 gram sample of the TS-G powder.
Edited by Jeff1, 21 July 2017 - 06:48 AM.
meatsauce 21 Jul 2017
Here are some preliminary figures:
10% tetrahydroxystilbene-glucoside powder: 30 cents per gram
20% rosemarinic acid powder: 25 cents per gram
Does anyone have experience with a good lab for testing purposes? I imagine this would be quite expensive to have tested, but I have not checked into it.
Yea I do. Its not that much. I think a few hundred per compound if we do the heavy metal testing.
I see. How large of a sample do we need? I already have a 10 gram sample of the TS-G powder
I think just a gram or two
Jeff1 27 Jul 2017
I think just a gram or two
Can you check on and confirm the cost to get the TSG tested?. I can send a couple of grams to the lab. I don't know how to coordinate cost sharing. Perhaps I can be responsible for purchasing the product if someone else will pay for the testing. Open to other arrangements too.
meatsauce 27 Jul 2017
stefan_001 27 Jul 2017
Edited by stefan_001, 27 July 2017 - 09:05 PM.
normalizing 28 Jul 2017
hmm i thought tetrahydroxystilbene is already sold as supplement over the internet. at least, i have seen various stilbene forms being sold, im pretty sure this one can be found too as well as rosemarinic acid
Jeff1 28 Jul 2017
hmm i thought tetrahydroxystilbene is already sold as supplement over the internet. at least, i have seen various stilbene forms being sold, im pretty sure this one can be found too as well as rosemarinic acid
Both compounds seem to be AGE inhibitirs but havent see good data indicating they break bonds.
See this study for AGE breaking ability of rosmarinic acid: http://www.toukastre...015/GS15-26.pdf
The only supplement I've seen which contains tetrahydroxystilbene-glucoside is fo-ti root capsules which contain unquantified amounts of TSG. The problem with that supplement is that you don't know how much TSG you are getting.
Edited by Jeff1, 28 July 2017 - 05:09 AM.
normalizing 28 Jul 2017
jeff, there are various pterostilbene supplements too, did you look into these? they dont state exactly the form, but i assume it can that one, no? we are talking about pterostilbine that is present in blueberries, correct? im not well educated about how many forms of pterostilbene there are, but i think anything containing pterostilbene should be coming with the complete package.
Jeff1 28 Jul 2017
I'm aware of pterostilbene.
See this excerpt from the study below:
"It was shown to efficiently inhibit the formation of AGEs in a dose-dependent manner by trapping reactive MGO under physiological conditions (pH 7.4, 37°C) [153]. More than 60% of MGO was trapped by THSG within 24 hours and THSG was much more effective than resveratrol and its methylated derivative pterostilbene (two major bioactive stilbenes) [153]"
Nate-2004 02 Aug 2017
There is little evidence except in vitro that rosmarinic acid breaks crosslinks. The in vitro study involved carsonic as well as rosmarinic acid in a 98% pure extraction. You can get a max of 30% from Dynveo, a company owned by one of the members on Longecity. I tried getting the 98% from Sigma Aldrich but they won't sell to me. I wouldn't put too much stake in it breaking glucosepane crosslinks however, as the in vitro study did not reveal the type of AGE they were testing on. If it wasn't glucosepane then it's largely useless and a shot in the dark at best since we just don't know. I've been taking rosmarinic acid off and on a lot with carnosine for the past year or so and honestly, I just don't know. Given what I know about AGEs and the fact that there are multiple pathways in glycation besides ROS and transition metals, we're probably better off breaking than trying to block. Does RA break? According to that study yes in vitro it breaks better than ALT-711 but even then, ALT-711 did not affect glucosepane or even pentosidine to my knowledge. These are two types of AGEs that are tough to break and the most common one is glucosepane.
From what I understand, recently, Yale scientists in the Spiegel lab have successfully synthesized glucosepane in order to find drug candidates that break the crosslinks.
What if they find the crosslink breaker, what then? They'll just reforge if you stop taking the drug, how do you sweep out the AGEs once the crosslinks are broken? Is that possible to do?
Edited by Nate-2004, 02 August 2017 - 08:30 PM.
Michael Lasky 29 Oct 2017
I ran across an interesting article on limonene and aminoguanidine (AG) synergy. https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28274869 https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28274869 Suggests that aminoguanidine toxicity can be avoided by using limonene simultaneously - a reduction in required dose by 95%. I ordered limonene from Jarrow, and AG from naturaleyecare.com to give them a try. Limonene itself has some very interesting potential benefits.
Limonene is the primary constituent of orange oil - and also likely present in significant amounts in citrus peels - so I'm thinking of adding powdered orange, lemon or grapefruit peel to my diet - to obtain all the other beneficial phytochemicals - I prefer to do the "whole food" route first, before trying isolated compounds. My Darwinian perspective - we evolved in a complex environment.
Sesamin (only source I know of is Sesaplex from Swanson) also has interesting properties, especially with P38-MAPK and NFkb - just started taking it - no perceived effects, as of yet.
Been taking ambroxol HCL (available from European vendors - I get it from a German vendor on Ebay) - for 4 months with unexpected large benefits re: lung function / colonization - if anyone is interested or has that problem (pseudomonas aeruginosa) - I can share my experience.
I've read about rosmarinic acid - thought it works at very low doses - why not just powder some rosemary and take that as a first step? See if that has any perceivable benefits.
APBT 29 Oct 2017
I ran across an interesting article on limonene and aminoguanidine (AG) synergy. https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28274869 Suggests that aminoguanidine toxicity can be avoided by using limonene simultaneously - a reduction in required dose by 95%.
FULL TEXT:
Attached Files
Nate-2004 30 Oct 2017
This sounds like an effective inhibition of pentosidine but they make no mention of glucosepane, which is strange that they would not even test or mention that unless it's not even a product of the type of glycation they were targeting. This is also in vitro so not even mice were involved here.
As a blocker it's going to be expensive considering the accessibility of aminoguanidine and that you wouldn't even see results for 10 years, though you could do some blood panels in a year to determine whether some things are improving, like A1c.
Jeff1 20 Jul 2018
I was able purchase tetrahydroxystilbene-glucoside. Is anyone interested in having this tested?