670 replies to this topic

[Andey]

And what about taking NMN with Methylene Blue? Sounds like a highly synergistic combination.

 

It would defy the purpose of taking H2O2 as it supposed to signals prooxidative state and provoke a hormetic response to activate antioxidative genes. In a sense, its an exercise mimicking as a similar thing happens after exercise.

I imagine taking MB with it would mean that nothing happens as MB is a powerful antioxidant and would negate H2O2.

 

It's a clever concept, kudos to the authors.

[stefan_001]

@andey I dont see how H202 makes it through the digestive system except damaging what it touches on the way down. Then you can better drink a lot of coffee at the same time which is at least shown to raise hydrogen peroxide levels in urine:

https://www.tandfonl...715760000300461

The levels of H2O2 detected in urine suggest that exposure of human tissues to H2O2 may be greater than is commonly supposed.

 

In general swallowing polyphenols will trigger one hormetic reaction or another. But does that help improving pathway capacity? At least I dont see how. Or?

Edited by stefan_001, 13 January 2019 - 12:46 PM.

[boroda]

It would defy the purpose of taking H2O2 as it supposed to signals prooxidative state and provoke a hormetic response to activate antioxidative genes. In a sense, its an exercise mimicking as a similar thing happens after exercise.

I imagine taking MB with it would mean that nothing happens as MB is a powerful antioxidant and would negate H2O2.

 

It's a clever concept, kudos to the authors.

 

I didn't mean taking NMN + H2O2 + MB together. I was asking about just NMN + MB combo. Since MB raises NAD+/Sirt1 too (same as NMN) - supposedly they should synergize with NMN very well.

[LawrenceW]

If we stop taking one or the other of the activators our inflammation numbers start going back up and personally my arthritis pain starts to come back. 

 

Another thing that I have noticed is that my acid reflux has cleared up.  In the past it used to flare up to the point where I would have to take a course of Prilosec about once a year.  I have not had any flareups in the past 3 years.

 

 

[Andey]

@andey I dont see how H202 makes it through the digestive system except damaging what it touches on the way down. Then you can better drink a lot of coffee at the same time which is at least shown to raise hydrogen peroxide levels in urine:

https://www.tandfonl...715760000300461

The levels of H2O2 detected in urine suggest that exposure of human tissues to H2O2 may be greater than is commonly supposed.

 

In general swallowing polyphenols will trigger one hormetic reaction or another. But does that help improving pathway capacity? At least I dont see how. Or?

 

 I don't know and can't find any scientific paper that measured H2O2 levels in the blood or tissue after oral digestion. Authors of the patent application assume it happens and it looks plausible as it's a small enough molecule to easy penetrate membranes.

[stefan_001]

If we stop taking one or the other of the activators our inflammation numbers start going back up and personally my arthritis pain starts to come back. 

 

Another thing that I have noticed is that my acid reflux has cleared up.  In the past it used to flare up to the point where I would have to take a course of Prilosec about once a year.  I have not had any flareups in the past 3 years.

 

So you are saying that the testing has shown that taking NMN alone does not bring health benefits? Or? That is interesting.

Edited by stefan_001, 13 January 2019 - 02:28 PM.

[sthira]

...People claim to cure all kind of things with it, including cancer. This practice is usually criticized as a woo-woo by sensible people here.


I imagine you use a 3% H2O2 for it, undiluted 35% could be too harsh for this. Just to be clear so nobody would harm himself.

That's right, a tablespoon or two of 3% H2O2, swish it around for less than a minute, then rinse with out yo' dirty mouth with water. It says on the very bottle itself that the stuff is a mouthwash. I try not to do too much or for too long; yet it's indicated to destroy harmful dental bacteria and help heal gingivitis, and also whitens coffee-stained teeth. Test these benefits on yourself, prove it to you. Science isn't going to study this -- no money to be made here. Long term application? Who knows. Give it a break, too, use it cyclically. Sorry I'm off topic here :(

[LawrenceW]

So you are saying that the testing has shown that taking NMN alone does not bring health benefits? Or? That is interesting.

 

 

Not at all.  For the first 30 to 60 days supplementing with just NMN gives us all the wonderful benefits that we have been reading about.  Somewhere between 30 and 60 days homeostasis starts to kick in and the degree of those benefits begin to decrease just like in the Elysium study on NR.  When we supplement NMN with the activators the degree of benefits does not drop off at all, even years later.  The activators keep the system in balance and prevent the homeostatic negative feedback loop from appearing in the first place.

 

Interestingly when I tired my 3 month supplementation with 500 mg twice daily NR, the activators had no effect at all.  

[stefan_001]

@lawerencew personally I believe both compounds have overlapping effects so I would have expected that you also notice NR use, its strange. It hard to comment on the activator statements as nobody knows what they are. In general I also use a rotating cocktail of polyphenols together with NR. While NAD+ boosting is definetely an anchor component its also clear that it by itself it  not enough to stay young. But definitely a good start.

 

As a sidenote I know you always lead all my comment back to holding shares in Chromadex but from an investor perspective I do not mind the developments around NMN at all. In fact I think the publicity around NMN and as result NAD+ boosting is beneficial for sales. If future research points out that NMN and NR have significant unique impacts, meaning they are more complementary than overlapping that would be even more fantastic as Chromadex can offer combo supplements. If they are largely overlapping then that is not a worry either, the planet is more than big enough and the competition will help boost awareness about NAD+. My estimate is that the target audience for NAD booster is somewhere between 500-1000M people. I will sign for 100M Niagen users immediately and happily sell off my stake :-)

Edited by stefan_001, 13 January 2019 - 07:41 PM.

[seescaper]

When taking hydrogen peroxide, are you saying to use 2-3 drops of 355 solution diluted in water? Would an oral dental mix, Colgate Peroxyl 1.5%, work as well, just swallowing some after the rinse?  Also, do you think it exerts it's effect by absorption intraorally or via the GI tract? On contacting stomach acid it would likely be modified considerably.  

that should have been 35% lol

[stefan_001]

So here is an interesting one, the so called NMN transporter Slc12a8 is identified as a possible arthritis gene. So perhaps the reported clearance of athritis pain by @lawrencew is not related to anti-aging / NAD+ boosting but is caused by NMN mega dosing overloading that pathway and preventing Slc12a8 from contributing to arthritis sympthoms.

Edited by stefan_001, 19 January 2019 - 12:40 PM.

[NaHanyate]

Not at all. For the first 30 to 60 days supplementing with just NMN gives us all the wonderful benefits that we have been reading about. Somewhere between 30 and 60 days homeostasis starts to kick in and the degree of those benefits begin to decrease just like in the Elysium study on NR. When we supplement NMN with the activators the degree of benefits does not drop off at all, even years later. The activators keep the system in balance and prevent the homeostatic negative feedback loop from appearing in the first place.

Interestingly when I tired my 3 month supplementation with 500 mg twice daily NR, the activators had no effect at all.

Lawrence, I am very confused. Could you help me?
I am currently taking 400mg powder sublingually twice daily. I am 55 years of age, 180 lbs. Was your regimen that proved effective for you (without activators) less than this, or more?

Edited by NaHanyate, 19 January 2019 - 01:49 PM.

[NaHanyate]

My personal experience with Nicotinamide Mononucleotide

I was first bitten in 2006 by the anti-aging bug after reading Ray Kurzweil’s Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough to Live Forever. I started up a vitamin supplement regimen including taking Resveratrol, eating healthier, attending the gym more regularly, and trended towards a generally healthier lifestyle. I have tried to keep current on all the latest anti-aging trends.

I still recall reading and bookmarking the Dec. 19, 2013, Harvard Medical School article, A New—and Reversible—Cause of Aging. In the article Dr. David Sinclair explains that, as we age, the levels of Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide (NAD+) in our body drop substantially. He discovered that a natural substance found in our cells, Nicotinamide MonoNucleotide (NMN), when added to cells, increased the level of NAD+ and actually reversed the cell’s biological age.

At that time Sigma- Aldrich had NMN for sale at $1,700 per gram. Correlating from the dose that Dr. Sinclair had fed his mice for 1 week, I would need 7.5 grams per day for 8 months. That worked out to $3M at Sigma Aldrich pricing. A group of 7 of us decided that we would volunteer ourselves to begin a medically supervised program of supplementing with NMN. We scoured labs far and wide for better pricing. We finally received a batch of 99.1% purity NMN in the spring of 2015.

I began taking Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) on July 15, 2015 and took my last dose of NMN for our first test program on April 7, 2016. I took a 3,400mg of NMN dose twice daily. I took my morning dose at around 7:00am and my evening dose at around 6:30pm. I did not drink any caffeine during the 3-hour period prior to dosing, but I could have caffeine 20 minutes after dosing. I weighed myself each morning as soon as I woke up. I experienced no side effects either physically or medically at any time while taking NMN. I did not change my eating habits or workout routine or frequency.

When I first started taking NMN, I immediately noticed a slight increase in energy. My weight beginning to drop within a couple of days. Within weeks I felt that I was shedding belly fat and noticed a visible flattening of my tummy. At about 3 weeks I noticed that the arthritis in my knuckles had started to clear up. Within the first month I noticed that I was sleeping much more soundly, sleeping about an hour longer and waking up really refreshed and clear-minded. By 3 months all the arthritis had cleared up body-wide including my shoulder, elbows, knees and right hip. When I began I weighed 215.9 lbs. On January 7, 2016, I recorded my lowest weight of 196.8, a loss of 19.1 lbs. At that time, I also noticed an increase in strength, endurance and muscle size. By the end of the program I weighed 208 and I believe that I had lost around 20 lbs. of fat and replaced it with around 12 lbs. of muscle.

About midway through the program, my neighbors were stopping me and commenting that I was looking healthier, younger, more energetic, buff, really good, etc. One of the more interesting comments was that I was moving like a much younger person. After that comment I focused on my walking mechanics. I realized that I was walking with much straighter posture, with shoulders back, chest out and a looser, more fluid and quicker stride, as all my joints were now more flexible and pain free. Physically, I felt like my body did 20 years earlier. I had an interesting conversation with a cosmetic surgeon friend, who said that he could make a 70-year-old look like a 50-year-old, but he couldn’t make them move like a 50-year-old. I now believe that NMN can make one move like a much younger person.

In early January 2015, I went to see my doctor for my annual physical checkup with full bloodwork. When I went back in for results, the first question my doctor asked me was what I had been doing differently. I asked why. She said that my bloodwork had come back much improved from the previous year. She pointed out that my kidney function/efficiency/health had improved dramatically:
BUN dropping from 14 to 7.
Hgb A1C number had improved from being a pre-diabetic 6.0 to non-diabetic 5.6.
Total cholesterol had improved from 167 to 154.
Triglycerides had improved from 147 to 108. My LDL/HDL ratio had improved from 3.54 to 2.3.
Cardiac risk had always been low but had dropped from a 1.92 to a 1.26. (Population average is 3.03 to 5.37).
Testosterone had increased from 247 to 335.
C-reactive protein had dropped from 0.7 to 0.3.
Tumor Necrosis Factor Alpha had dropped from a 1.8 to a 1.4.
Interleukin-6 Plasma had dropped from a 1.2 to less than 0.7.
These last three tests were all measurements of inflammation levels in my body. As increased inflammation is tied to aging and a decrease in general health, I was pleased to see my inflammation levels being reduced. As a chronological 60-year old male, I was pleased to see that my biological age had dropped from 70 to 44.

I finally confessed that I had been taking NMN, an anti-aging dietary supplement discovered by Dr. Sinclair from Harvard Medical school. Her comment was that she sees all sorts of patients that are taking the latest anti-aging pills or potions and they usually comment that they feel great or younger or more energetic and so on. She says that, over all the years, this is the first time that she has seen the claimed benefits/results show up in the bloodwork. Her other comment was that the improvements didn’t just exhibit in one part of the body but appeared to be system-wide. Her final comment was that it appeared that I had the bloodwork of a much younger and healthier person. I definitely felt like I had a much younger and healthier body.

After we completed an 8-month NMN program, our medical supervisor wanted us to quit for a one-year period to monitor us for any adverse reactions. The first thing that I can report is that it was not physically addicting and there were no withdrawal issues at all. About a month later I noticed that I was beginning to feel my age again. My joints were stiffening, and a tinge of arthritis was back. But even after the full year of no NMN, my arthritis had not returned to its pre-NMN level. My next annual physical, in August 2017, showed that the improvement to my kidneys was still holding. Results were:
My cholesterol numbers stayed at the improved levels.
Cardiac risk returned to my baseline number.
Testosterone continued to increase.
C-reactive protein, Tumor Necrosis factor and Interleukin-6 numbers had all returned to my baseline number.
And my biological age which had started at 70, dropped to 44 had gone up to 76.
HgbA1c number had gone back to 6.4, slightly higher than my original baseline.
My doctor wanted to immediately put me on Metformin to control my HgbA1c. I told her that I was planning on starting up my NMN again and asked if we could test again in 3 months to see if the NMN controlled my HgbA1c. She reluctantly agreed.

In summary, some of the benefits appeared to be lasting, while others went away after I stopped taking NMN. Overall, I felt my initial experience with NMN was very positive with no downside risk. Therefore, I started up again on Sept. 22, 2017, but experimented with a reduced NMN regimen of 1,600 mg twice per day.

On Dec. 7, after almost 3 months on the 1,600mg twice-per-day NMN regimen, I went in for blood tests. My doctor was very pleased to see that my previous HgbA1c reading of 6.4 had reduced to a 5.8. She commented that if my HgbA1c came back up to 6.0, or if I quit taking NMN, then I would have to get started on Metformin immediately.

In addition to the good HgbA1c news, every arthritic joint was once again pain-free. My biological age dropped from 76 to 45. My inflammation markers all improved:
C-reactive protein dropped from 0.9 to 0.49.
Tumor Necrosis Factor Alpha dropped from 1.9 to 1.2
Interleukin-6 plasma dropped from 1.2 to 0.9.

As a result of my most recent set of blood tests coming in almost identical to those I had after my initial full dose NMN regimen, I decided to scale the dose back even further. In late December, I began a 750 mg twice per day dosage and will be going in at the end of April for my next full blood panel. Physically, I still feel the same benefits as I did on the higher dose, but only the blood work will truly tell me what is going on inside.

In this study, you mentioned that you had permanent benefits from taking NMN without activators beyond one year. Does this not contradict what you were saying now about NMN not being effective without activators past 3 to 6 months?

[Oakman]

LawrenceW, on 22 Mar 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

"About midway through the program, my neighbors were stopping me and commenting that I was looking healthier, younger, more energetic, buff, really good, etc. One of the more interesting comments was that I was moving like a much younger person. After that comment I focused on my walking mechanics. I realized t Physically, I felt like my body did 20 years earlier. I had an interesting conversation with a cosmetic surgeon friend, who said that he could make a 70-year-old look like a 50-year-old, but he couldn’t make them move like a 50-year-old."

 

This comment of LawrenceW stood out for me. A bit off the current discussion here, but I have noticed this more and more myself and while watching other older (and not so old) individuals. It does appear that a person's walking gait can tell you a lot about their functional age. From years of desk work, I had poor posture myself, and it wasn't until I began strength training that I was able to escape that syndrome by in large. IOW, strengthening the muscles involved (back, shoulders, chest), allows you to fix the posture problem by standing correctly once again and making it 'feel' normal.

 

Watch people and you'll see that as they get older and/or typically more out of shape, they start to teeter-totter from side to side as they walk. Younger, normal walking is efficient, standing straight, walking straight, with little to no side to side wasted movement.  Alternatively there is the falling from side to side gait, lurching left foot to right foot, rather than picking up one leg and placing it ahead, then the other.

 

I've not been taking NMN as long as, or in the amount that LawrenceW has, but I was taking NR since 2016 and it did seem that NR was helping in this regard, along with the strength exercises. Both then, and still to this day I too feel, "that I walk with much straighter posture, with shoulders back, chest out and a looser, more fluid and quicker stride, as all my joints were now more flexible and pain free."  

 

Perhaps it's the NAD boosting abilities of these molecules that encourage muscle development and strength, and indirectly, posture and walking gait so strongly? Whatever the reasons, I'm very much happy with the improved posture and walking gait results I've seen.

[LawrenceW]

In this study, you mentioned that you had permanent benefits from taking NMN without activators beyond one year. Does this not contradict what you were saying now about NMN not being effective without activators past 3 to 6 months?

 

NaHanyate

 

As you appear to be a fairly recent member of this forum, I would like to give you some background on all this.

 

It was just over 5 years ago that Dr. Sinclair made his announcement about NMN that sent us all down this anti-aging, NAD+ increasing path. I still remember reading that press release on Dec. 19, 2013.  At the time he had announced that human trials would begin within 1 year. This meant that 3+ years down the road we might have something that we could start taking fully supported by human trial studies. At that time, I was 55 and felt like I was getting older by the day. I chatted with a molecular biologist buddy of mine, who was a couple of years older than myself, and we decided that we didn't have the years to wait for the formal human trials process to slowly conclude. We first set out to prove to OURSELVES as to whether taking this dietary supplement was safe.  We spent tens of thousands on a myriad of blood tests and after 6 months of testing for any and all side effects, we found none. That was in the spring of 2015.  In the fall of 2018, 3.5 years later, Dr. Sinclair announced that his human trials found that it was safe for humans. Late in 2014 we discovered the issue of homeostasis. By the spring of 2015 we had discovered a formulation to resolve that problem.  In September of 2017 (almost 3 years later) Elysium published their study showing homeostasis limited the peak efficacy of NAD+ boosting at around 4 weeks with declines after that. To date no one else has stepped forward with any solution to this issue. Everyone seems to be content with a long-term boost of somewhere between 40 and 60%. We are not.

 

Several years ago, and before the various above listed research was published, the topic of our “activator” was broached on this forum.  The powers that be quickly declared this to be quack science and snake oil. At that time there was no published research to support our position, so we let it drop.

 

Since that time we have continued quietly testing with dosing, application and discovering for OURSELVES a multitude of benefits of taking NMN with Activator. We are confident that in the coming years that our other findings will be confirmed in study after study after study.

 

All of my experience with NMN has been with the activator in its various iterations with the exception of a 3 week period from Nov. 16 to Dec. 2, 2018. As the powers that be on this forum had already decided that our activator was useless, I saw no point in mentioning that I was taking the activator and rehashing that issue.

 

Which brings us to your statement of:

“In this study, you mentioned that you had permanent benefits from taking NMN without activators beyond one year. Does this not contradict what you were saying now about NMN not being effective without activators past 3 to 6 months?“

 

What I am trying to say that all NMN (regardless of source or application method) works to the maximum benefit that that particular dose can provide for about the first 30 days.  After that homeostasis kicks in and the benefits begin to come off of their peak and at around 6 months you end up with a stabilized level of benefits increase.  Dr. Sinclair mentioned in one of his videos that NAD+ is involved in around 500 biological functions. It is reasonable to assume that the level of benefits is different for different biological functions.  For example when we quit taking NMN for 12 months my A1C and cholesterol numbers all returned to my pre-NMN number.  My liver, kidney and heart efficiency numbers (which all had significant improvements after 6 months of NMN) barely changed after 12 months of no NMN. We now believe that this was as a result of Angiogenesis (as discussed in Impairment of an Endothelial NAD+ -H2S Signaling Network Is a Reversible Cause of Vascular Aging) being a permanent benefit as opposed to the rather transitory and short term control of glucose.

 

In summary I believe that for the first 30 days all NMN is equal.  After 30 days you must deal with homeostasis, if you want to maintain your benefits at peak levels.

[bluemoon]

   In September of 2017 (almost 3 years later) Elysium published their study showing homeostasis limited the peak efficacy of NAD+ boosting at around 4 weeks with declines after that.  

 

 

But there was no decline for those taking 250 mg of NR for 8 weeks but a 40% increase at week 4 and at week 8. 

 

By the way, when  Sinclair mentioned a couple of weeks ago NMN getting people out of wheel chairs, doesn't he have to be talking about adding something to NMN to keep NAD+ levels high and over ride homeostasis?

[LawrenceW]

But there was no decline for those taking 250 mg of NR for 8 weeks but a 40% increase at week 4 and at week 8. 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. 250 mg of NR seems to be the baseline dose that achieves a 40% boost for the first 30 days and then stays at that 40% boost after that.  Notice that their 500 mg dose gave them a 90% boost at 30 days and then dropped to 55% at day 60. If I were a betting man, I would bet that their 500 mg dose was also stabilized at 40% by month 6 or earlier.  What their study says is that after day 30, taking anything more than 250 mg of NR for the average weight person is just wasting money.

 

Personally and from our 3 years of experience with NMN, I believe that the equivalent baseline number for NMN only, is around 325 mg per day. 

[LawrenceW]

By the way, when  Sinclair mentioned a couple of weeks ago NMN getting people out of wheel chairs, doesn't he have to be talking about adding something to NMN to keep NAD+ levels high and over ride homeostasis?

 

Yes. In this paper in Impairment of an Endothelial NAD+ -H2S Signaling Network Is a Reversible Cause of Vascular Aging) it discusses that "Pharmacologically raising NAD+ levels promotes muscle vascular remodeling following ischemic injury and restores capillary density and treadmill endurance of old mice back to youthful levels, and in young mice during chronic exercise, an effect that is further augmented by H2S."

 

As Dr. Sinclair is one of the authors of that paper, he might well be adding H2S to his NMN dosing.  In 2015 we tested both Hydrogen Sulfide and Hydrogen Peroxide and determined for ourselves that they are equally beneficial in dealing with homeostasis. As the downside to H2S was that it made our breath smell like rotten eggs, we went with H2O2.

 

He also recommends Metformin.  By combining NMN, Metformin and H2S he may well have inadvertently found another method to deal with homeostasis. 

[Phoebus]

 

As Dr. Sinclair is one of the authors of that paper, he might well be adding H2S to his NMN dosing.  In 2015 we tested both Hydrogen Sulfide and Hydrogen Peroxide and determined for ourselves that they are equally beneficial in dealing with homeostasis. As the downside to H2S was that it made our breath smell like rotten eggs, we went with H2O2.

 

 

 

 

what form of H2S were you supplementing with?

[LawrenceW]

what form of H2S were you supplementing with?

 

Hello Phoebus.

 

It was 4 years ago, but if I remember correctly, it was Sodium Hydrogen Sulfide.

 

Synonyms

• NaHS
• NSC 158264
• Sodium Hydrosulfide

Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is, like nitric oxide, an important gaseous mediator that has significant effects on the immunological, neurological, cardiovascular and pulmonary systems of mammals. Sodium hydrogen sulfide is an H2S donor commonly used in cellular and whole animal experimental systems. For example, it has been used to suggest that H2S promotes neutrophil migration1, reduces airway inflammation2, and protects neurites,3 heart,4 and intestine5 from chemical or ischemic-reperfusion damage.

[Oakman]

CSB Releases Safety Bulletin Warning of Dangers of Sodium Hydrosulfide (NaHS) in the Workplace; Outlines Safe Practices to Prevent Harm

 

https://www.csb.gov/...o-prevent-harm/

 

CSB investigators uncovered 45 accidents associated with sodium hydrosulfide that have caused 32 deaths and 176 injuries since 1971. ... The Safety Bulletin points out that when NaHS is inadvertently combined with acid materials, deadly hydrogen sulfide gas is produced. ... Hydrogen sulfide gas has the characteristic smell of rotten eggs. 

 

Don't think it wise to be ingesting this stuff in any form, or even getting near it.

[LawrenceW]

Don't think it wise to be ingesting this stuff in any form, or even getting near it.

 

 

Drinking too much alcohol will kill you. Better not drink anymore of that.

 

Too much Tylenol will kill you.  Better not take anymore of that.

 

From the safety bulletin:The Safety Bulletin points out that when NaHS is inadvertently combined with acid materials, deadly hydrogen sulfide gas is produced. Such inadvertent mixing can occur in a chemical process sewer, for example. 

 

I agree with Oakman that you better not be anywhere near NaHS if you are not going to handle it with the safety precautions, care and respect it requires.

 

According to this study,  Impairment of an Endothelial NAD+ -H2S Signaling Network Is a Reversible Cause of Vascular Aging , it is beneficial to your well being if you take 3 drops of H2S per day.

 

Personally, I won't take it because of the rotten egg smell.

[NaHanyate]

“Everyone seems to be content with a long-term boost of somewhere between 40 and 60%. We are not.”

LawrenceW, thank you for your reply. You may or may not be aware of this, but your posts have helped many decide to begin their NMN journey, including myself. You have made a difference in many people’s lives, and that is no small thing.

This is the answer I was looking for, that there is reduced but sustained benefits to taking NMN over time, even without activators. ( I personally felt it as well - the initial sleep quality improvement was not sustained, although it is still a lot better than before starting to take NMN). I though that that would be the case, otherwise why would David Sinclair and his dad be still taking NMN , if they are not getting any benefits?

About Homeostasis (I have some medical background - I went to Mecical School but chose to leave halfway), the body tries to maintain equilibrium for most parameters in the body, and NAD+ should be no exception. And the newly found transport protein SIc12ad on the cell walls controls this. The question is, why does it downregulate after some time, even though the amount of NAD+ is not enough in the cell?

My thought is, that NAD+ quantity in the cell is regulated by two events - it’s production inside the cell from non-NMN precursors, as well as NMN transported into the cell. So the transport mechanism was perhaps never meant to account for the complete production of NAD+. Maybe it’s production inside the cell is impaired due to aging, and that might be the final fix - through genetic engineering or otherwise. And for the time being, we can artificially upregulate the SIc12ad receptors with small molecule drugs (I thing the Japanese scientist already applied for a patent for this), for the uptake of a much larger quantity of NMN.

Now it seems that you/your group has come up with an alternate way, without using small molecule drugs (although H2O2 is a pretty small molecule ). Could you tell me how exactly you mix H2O2 with your NMN? I understand that you do it right before having the NMN.

I fully understand that you are not giving me medical advice, just telling me what you do personally.

Edited by NaHanyate, 20 January 2019 - 03:47 PM.

[LawrenceW]

Now it seems that you/your group has come up with an alternate way, without using small molecule drugs (although H2O2 is a pretty small molecule ). Could you tell me how exactly you mix H2O2 with your NMN? I understand that you do it right before having the NMN.

I fully understand that you are not giving me medical advice, just telling me what you do personally.

 

Personally, I put 3 drops in 4 to 6 ounces of water and use that to wash down my dose of NMN and activator capsules.

[NaHanyate]

Personally, I put 3 drops in 4 to 6 ounces of water and use that to wash down my dose of NMN and activator capsules.

Thanks!

What’s in the activator capsules?

Edited by NaHanyate, 20 January 2019 - 03:51 PM.

[LawrenceW]

Hello NaHanyate.

 

Heisok nailed the 2015 iteration of our activator it in an earlier post.The answers for the candidate "activators" might be in the patent application which involves some of the information William shared. Thanks William.

 

"Resetting biological pathways for defending against and repairing deterioration from human aging" 2017-04-13WO2017062311A

 

Looks like at the time the results for the 61 year old were based on using 3 ingredients and combinations of the 3 with the NMN. Page 88. NMN, Betaine, H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) or NaSH (Sodium Hydrogen Sulfide) As William has indicated, their regimenhas evolved since then into 5 of the "activators" The candidate activators for the 5 "activators" might be from the categories described at the bottom of the title page.

 

 

Edited by LawrenceW, 20 January 2019 - 04:50 PM.

[NaHanyate]

Hello NaHanyate.

Heisok nailed the 2015 iteration of our activator it in an earlier post.The answers for the candidate "activators" might be in the patent application which involves some of the information William shared. Thanks William.

"Resetting biological pathways for defending against and repairing deterioration from human aging" 2017-04-13WO2017062311A

Looks like at the time the results for the 61 year old were based on using 3 ingredients and combinations of the 3 with the NMN. Page 88. NMN, Betaine, H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) or NaSH (Sodium Hydrogen Sulfide) As William has indicated, their regimenhas evolved since then into 5 of the "activators" The candidate activators for the 5 "activators" might be from the categories described at the bottom of the title page.

Thanks again!

[Oakman]

According to this study,  Impairment of an Endothelial NAD+ -H2S Signaling Network Is a Reversible Cause of Vascular Aging , it is beneficial to your well being if you take 3 drops of H2S per day.

 

Could you please point out where in the study you reference that it says, "it is beneficial to your well being if you take 3-4 drops of H2S per day"?

 

Reason I ask, first, how do you take "drops" of a gas? H2S is a gas. Second, the study was on mice, and not people. And third I did not see anything about oral administration of H2S drops in the study, even if it were possible to do so. The study said, "To test the effects of the NMN-NaHS combination, we cotreated 32-month-old mice with NMN and NaHS for 4 weeks (Figure S7D)."  I could not find any remarks about just how that was done. Perhaps I simply missed it? It would be interesting to know.

 

Rather, in the conclusions of the study the last sentence says, "precursors to NAD+ and H2S may not only be effective agents for increasing the recovery from vessel blockages and enhancing the effects of exercise, but also for treating the most common of age-related diseases, if not aging itself."

 

Nothing about taking H2S directly, or orally, is mentioned, not even for the mice involved, far as I noticed. Now precursors to H2S opens the avenue to substances we can orally administer, and would be worth more discussion, beyond what already has been mentioned.

[stefan_001]

Hello NaHanyate.

 

Heisok nailed the 2015 iteration of our activator it in an earlier post.The answers for the candidate "activators" might be in the patent application which involves some of the information William shared. Thanks William.

 

"Resetting biological pathways for defending against and repairing deterioration from human aging" 2017-04-13WO2017062311A

 

Looks like at the time the results for the 61 year old were based on using 3 ingredients and combinations of the 3 with the NMN. Page 88. NMN, Betaine, H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) or NaSH (Sodium Hydrogen Sulfide) As William has indicated, their regimenhas evolved since then into 5 of the "activators" The candidate activators for the 5 "activators" might be from the categories described at the bottom of the title page.

 

Kind of pointless this guessing game.
 

[bluemoon]

  If I were a betting man, I would bet that their 500 mg dose was also stabilized at 40% by month 6 or earlier.  What their study says is that after day 30, taking anything more than 250 mg of NR for the average weight person is just wasting money. 

 

That may be true but then why do you (or anyone else) think Charles Brenner, a leading NR researcher, said that he raised his NR dose from 250 mg to 500 mg in 2017?