LONGECITY

I was looking into tryings LEF's Whey Protein Powder: http://www.lef.org/n.../item00509.html

It seems high quality and they add BioFerrin. They add cocoa powder into one version of it, which is also good, but I already bought some in bulk. My only reason I am hesitant to buy it is because of casein. I drink a lot of green tea and get green tea extract in the LEF Mix Tabs. Supposedly casein interferes with the positive benefits of green tea. I was thinking I could try waiting awhile for the green tea to digest before consuming the whey protein. Would that avoid this problem?

My other concern is that wikipedia says autistics benefit from casein-free diets. I am not autistic, but I sometimes think I might have a mild form of it. It runs in my family, and I am pretty geeky so I am not as sociable as some, though I have greatly improved over the years. I guess just being on this website and caring about all this stuff reveals something about my nonstandard personality.

So the first concern seems more scientifically based, and the second one I am just tossing out there. Thoughts?

Matter of fact, I just purchased some casein protein powder the other day. Haven't tried it yet, but from all the reading I've done, it's damn good quality.

http://www.issresear...llarmatrix.html

I'd suggest purchasing this elsewhere than through the company itself, as their prices are pretty steep.

Well, as far as your concern regarding it blocking the positive affects of green tea, I don't know what to tell you, other than to get some whey without casein, or as you said, perhaps wait until the tea digests prior to consuming the protein.

Do you have a family history of cardiovascular disease?

The great thing about this type of protein is that it stays in your system for an extended period of time, as compared to traditional whey. This, IMO, is a boon to individuals wanting to put on mass. I'm not going to tout any further about this. Last suggestion, is to cycle casein every other day, while confining your green tea intake to those days in between.

Supposedly casein interferes with the positive benefits of green tea.

Could you post a link that provides evidence? If this is the case, I need to change the timing of taking my green tea stuff.

Well, if you don't want to ingest casein, you could always buy a fountain pen made out of it. For only $495 too.

Stephen [lol]

I did see this study, but I haven't really been able to decipher the abstract:

Interactions between flavonoids and proteins: effect on the total antioxidant capacity,

Supposedly casein interferes with the positive benefits of green tea.

Could you post a link that provides evidence? If this is the case, I need to change the timing of taking my green tea stuff.

Here is one study:

    * Lorenz M,
    * Jochmann N,
    * von Krosigk A,
    * Martus P,
    * Baumann G,
    * Stangl K,
    * Stangl V.

Medizinische Klinik mit Schwerpunkt Kardiologie und Angiologie, Charite-Universitatsmedizin Berlin, CCM, Chariteplatz 1, D-10117 Berlin, Germany.

AIMS: Experimental and clinical studies indicate that tea exerts protection against cardiovascular diseases. However, a question of much debate is whether addition of milk modifies the biological activities of tea. We studied the vascular effects of tea, with or without milk, in humans and elucidated the impact of individual milk proteins in cell culture experiments, with isolated rat aortic rings and by HPLC analysis. METHODS AND RESULTS: A total of 16 healthy female volunteers consumed either 500 mL of freshly brewed black tea, black tea with 10% skimmed milk, or boiled water as control. Flow-mediated dilation (FMD) was measured by high-resolution vascular ultrasound before and 2 h after consumption. Black tea significantly improved FMD in humans compared with water, whereas addition of milk completely blunted the effects of tea. To support these findings, similar experiments were performed in isolated rat aortic rings and endothelial cells. Tea induced vasorelaxation in rat aortic rings and increased the activity of endothelial nitric oxide synthase by phosphorylation of the enzyme in endothelial cells. All effects were completely inhibited by the addition of milk to tea. Of the various kinds of milk proteins, the caseins accounted for these inhibiting effects of milk, probably by formation of complexes with tea catechins.

CONCLUSION: Milk counteracts the favourable health effects of tea on vascular function. This finding indicates the need for particular awareness in the interpretation and design of studies comprising nutritional flavonoids.

Other casein effects:

1. Putative co-carcinogenic?

2. Immune system sensitizer possibly playing a role in type I diabetes,
atopic dermatitis, etc.


and a recent study:

1: Br J Nutr. 2007 Mar;97(3):535-43. Links
Differential effects of dietary whey, casein and soya on colonic DNA damage and large bowel SCFA in rats fed diets low and high in resistant starch.

* Toden S,
* Bird AR,
* Topping DL,
* Conlon MA.

Food Futures National Research Flagship, CSIRO Human Nutrition, Adelaide, Australia.

Feeding higher levels of dietary animal protein (as casein or red meat) increases colonic DNA damage and thins the colonic mucus barrier in rats. Feeding resistant starch (RS) reverses these changes and increases large bowel SCFA. The present study examined whether high dietary dairy (casein or whey) or plant (soya) proteins had similar adverse effects and whether dietary RS was protective. Adult male rats were fed diets containing 15 or 25 % casein, whey or soya protein with or without 48 % high amylose starch (as a source of RS) for 4 weeks. DNA damage was measured in isolated colonocytes using the comet assay.

Higher dietary casein and soya (but not whey) increased colonocyte DNA damage. DNA damage was highest with soya when fed at 15 or 25 % protein without RS.

Dietary RS attenuated protein-induced colonocyte DNA damage in all groups but it remained significantly higher in rats fed 25 % soya compared with those fed 15 % protein. Dietary protein level did not affect colonic mucus thickness overall but the barrier was thinner in rats fed high dietary casein. This effect was reversed by feeding RS. Caecal total SCFA and butyrate pools were higher in rats fed RS compared with digestible starch. Caecal and faecal SCFA were unrelated to genetic damage but correlated with mucus thickness. The present data confirm that higher dietary protein affected colonocyte DNA and colonic mucus thickness adversely but that proteins differ in their effects on these indices of colon health. The data show also that these changes were reversed by RS.

PMID: 17313716 [PubMed - in process]

I eat a lot of nuts and seeds, should I just rely on that, or are there protein powders without casein? Preferably powders without their own batch of negative side effects.

Sure- all sorts: Whey, egg, soy, vegetable non-soy, like hemp, pea, rice, etc....

Side effects- well, YMMV. If you're allergic to any of the above, you
might induce a reaction. Many folks have a bit of GI disturbance
with whey concentrates. Soy, if containing high estrogenic effect
isoflavones may alter your hormonal functional status, perhaps (bit
debatable), etc., although soy with such elements removed is available.

Life is one big side effect, ISTM sometimes!
Edited by tintinet, 24 March 2007 - 11:51 PM.

I just found evidence that milk does not affect the antioxidants in tea from Celestial Seasonings's website. I don't know how reliable it is, or if the study they cite was conducted properly.

http://www.celestial...-green-tea.html

and the study they cite on question 10 which asks about the effects of milk, sugar, and lemon is:

Van Het Hof, K. Plasma and Lipoprotein Levels of Tea Catechins Following Repeated Tea Consumption. Proceedings from the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine. 1999;220(4):203-209

i drink protein 3x daily. at night i drink the casein/whey mix for muscle recovery. i make my own mix at trueprotein.com. you can choose from many different types of protein and make your own combo. otherwise, bodybuilding.com has their protein selection sorted by type of protein content.

Would pure lactoferrin have the same effects as casein, with regard to negating the antioxidant properties of green tea?

I just found evidence that milk does not affect the antioxidants in tea from Celestial Seasonings's website. I don't know how reliable it is, or if the study they cite was conducted properly.

http://www.celestial...-green-tea.html

and the study they cite on question 10 which asks about the effects of milk, sugar, and lemon is:

Van Het Hof, K. Plasma and Lipoprotein Levels of Tea Catechins Following Repeated Tea Consumption. Proceedings from the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine. 1999;220(4):203-209

Celestial Seasonings website quote (italics are my alteration):

"10. Does adding sugar, lemon, honey, or milk effect the health benefits of green tea?

Although traditional green tea drinkers prefer not to add anything to their healthful concoction, for those who add milk and sweeteners to green tea, the research findings suggest you are in the clear. Sugars, sweeteners, lemon and milk do not appear to effect the antioxidant levels of green tea polyphenols.20"

Yeah, but it #$%@s up your usage of English.

Would pure lactoferrin have the same effects as casein, with regard to negating the antioxidant properties of green tea?

Dunno if they specifically tested lactoferrin (anyone have the full text of the study?), but ISTM the answer ought to be "no."

Here's a reference to what they found:

"Milk contains a number of different proteins: by testing each one separately, the researchers found that it was the three caseins that accounted for the inhibiting effect, probably by forming complexes with tea catechins."

And, from the PDR:

"Lactoferrin is a glycoprotein that belongs to the iron transporter or transferrin family. It was originally isolated from bovine milk, where it is found as a minor protein component of whey proteins."

These are some studies that I quoted in another thread that no one responded to--here they are again.

Interaction of the tea polyphenol epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) with beta-casein in milk affects the taste of tea and also affects the stability of the tea and the antioxidant ability of the EGCG. In addition, interaction of polyphenols with the chemically similar salivary proline-rich proteins is largely responsible for the astringency of tea and red wine. With the use of single molecule force microscopy, we demonstrate that the interaction of EGCG with a single casein molecule is multivalent and leads to reduction in the persistence length of casein as calculated using the wormlike chain model and a reduction in its radius of gyration. The extra force required to stretch casein in the presence of EGCG is largely entropic, suggesting that multivalent hydrophobic interactions cause a compaction of the casein micelle.

Jobstl E, Howse JR, Fairclough JP,Williamson MP.
Department of Molecular Biology and Biotechnology, University of Sheffield, Western Bank, Sheffield S10 2TN, United Kingdom.

So, it looks like there is some reaction between casein and egcg, is it good or bad?

Flavonoids are potent antioxidants. It is also known that flavonoids bind to proteins. The effect of the interaction between tea flavonoids and proteins on the antioxidant capacity was examined. Their separate and combined antioxidant capacities were measured with the Trolox equivalent antioxidant capacity (TEAC) assay. It was observed that the antioxidant capacity of several components of green and black tea with alpha-, beta-, and kappa-casein or albumin is not additive; that is, a part of the total antioxidant capacity is masked by the interaction. This masking depends on both the protein and the flavonoid used. Components in green and black tea, which show the highest masking in combination with beta-casein, are epigallocatechin gallate and gallic acid. The results demonstrate that the matrix influences the efficacy of an antioxidant.

Arts MJ, Haenen GR, Wilms LC, Beetstra SA, Heijnen CG, Voss HP, Bast A.
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Faculty of Medicine, Maastricht University, P.O. Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. Mariken.Arts@farmaco.unimaas.nl

It doesn't look like it's good...

Am I missing something?

f/R

I defer to Arnold on this one: Milk is for babies!

I defer to Arnold on this one:

I love it when people paraphrase his quote. Since, he did recommend milk and people forget it was a passing joke.

"Milk is for babies. When you grow up you have to drink beer."

Arnold Schwarzenegger

Somehow I gaffed that link, first time [:o] !

Passing joke, perhaps, but...

"Every joke can have its truth, and now the joke's on you!"

BJA